"I am Sam Fisher, I am a Splinter Cell".....uuhhh...okay.....

Captain Harlock · 04-15-03, 09:19 PM

Okay don't take this as a troll everyone, but I'd like your opinions on this.

I finally got around to playing Splinter Cell on the PS2 the other night. I have to say that honestly, I'm more than a bit underwhelmed.

Graphically it's a nice piece of work. But I'd have to say that the story line and most of the characters are really flat, dull and one dimensional. Sam Fisher aspires to be some kind of "uber agent" but I just kept saying"What am I doing again? And more importantly why am I supposed to care?" Basically the game's story really isn't very riveting. I've only played about 20% or so of the game it so far there hasn't been anything about any of the characters or about Sam Fisher that makes them/it memorable. There's no other motivation besides "following orders" as incentive for Sam to complete his mission and there's no real reason to like Sam. Hell I even liked Raiden more after Solidus delved into his past.

I was really thinking of buying this game but after playing it for a while now I might wait till it shows up in the Greatest Hits section.

I don't know am I missing something?

RocShemp · 04-15-03, 09:48 PM

Darn. I was hoping with Tom Clancy's name attatched the developers would have at least made a multifaceted nail biter as an homage to Clancy's novels.

BTW, I caught aglimpse at the new intro for the PS2 version (I was passing by KB today and they had it on but without audio) and it looked really intense though a bitoverblown (I though the chopper with guns blazing was a bit much). So is it that this game started big and then suddenly slowed to a crawl or is it boring from the getgo?

I ask as your Raiden comment intruiged me. MGS2:SOL was a bit slow at parts and I could have lived without the (seemingly speed induced) overblown final act but the game always managed to keep my attention and I cared about the characters (even Raiden cos I wanted him to get home so he could strangle Rosemary).

thegame370 · 04-15-03, 09:52 PM

This game is awesome! I have it for Xbox which is quite frankly the best way to play it. Ive seen the way it looks for the PS2, and its pretty but not nearly as pretty as it is for the box. But aside from that, i dont think theres anything wrong with the story. Maybe you need to get into it further, it gets really interesting later on and very tough, especially when you have to infiltrate the CIA HQ. Personally, i love the game, its one of the best i have for my XBox and a great game all around.

Lethal Nemesis · 04-15-03, 10:07 PM

While I did follow the story somewhat, I admit that it didn't really interest me or hold my attention that much. I didn't really care for Sam, but hell, I liked the gameplay so much that none of that other stuff mattered to me (although at times it feels like it's nothing more than trial and error). I haven't played the PS2 version, so I can't compare graphics, but the Xbox version looks amazing to say the least.

Josh H · 04-15-03, 10:09 PM

I played the X-box versions at a friends a few weeks ago and was underwhelmed as well.

I didn't mind the lack of plot really, it was just the gameplay wasn't my cup of tea. Too much trial and error. It was just a chore to figure out what to do and how to do it successfully for my tastes. It felt more like work than play, and I play games pretty much soley to relax and unwind from the real world. I think this is more of a game for hard core gamers that are into intense gaming experiences.

Gallant Pig · 04-15-03, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Too much trial and error.

And you liked the new Zelda? The dungeon play in that game is pure trial and error.

Josh H · 04-15-03, 10:15 PM

But it's a different kind of trial and error. You just get in a room and generally have an unlimited amount of time to figure out what to do.

In splinter cell and other stealth based games it's more go a little ways, get caught, start back at the beginning or a continue point, get past that, get a little further, get caught, start over, repeat ad nauseum.

I'm by no means saying Splinter Cell is a bad game. It's a great game for the genre. It's just that those type of games just arent my cup of tea.

Gallant Pig · 04-15-03, 10:16 PM

Point taken.

BigPete · 04-15-03, 10:31 PM

Did you watch the opening movie? At least the movie on the PC version got my heart pumping.

Captain Harlock · 04-15-03, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigPete
Did you watch the opening movie? At least the movie on the PC version got my heart pumping.

Yeah I watched the opening movie. It was a good starting point. But from then on the presentation went downhill fast. Another thing I noticed that there aren't any cut scenes to show Sam's insertion into the target zone.

Quote:

Originally posted by Roc Shemp
So is it that this game started big and then suddenly slowed to a crawl or is it boring from the getgo?

You had this huge deal with the two field operatives getting caught and from then on you get little in terms of story progression. Save for a "NewsFlash" or two. With no pre-mission briefings ( a comlink transmission isn't really a briefing) and no plot advancement of any kind it seems as if there really isn't very much difference between the training area and alot of the levels I've played through. In places it almost feels like a platformer.

I have it for a few more days so I'm hoping it might turn around but I'm having my doubts.

Static Cling · 04-16-03, 12:21 AM

I call shenanigans... no one liked Raiden.

The story gets rolling a little later, if I remember right.

Shimmer35 · 04-16-03, 04:58 AM

Splinter Cell is great. It does however get very frustrating on the last couple of levels (Well, the xbox version anyway, I heard they made the AI a little easier in the ps2 version). Of course the game is not perfect, but it is still a great game. And the story does get better at the last few missions.

Snowmaker · 04-16-03, 06:25 AM

I LOVE the game. I had just finished Halo and The Thing before buying Splinter Cell so, at first, I was really bored with it because I just wanted to run around and shoot everything. But once I got used to it it is really fun. I now see everything as lights and shadows in my regular everyday life.

I'm on the Presidential Palace level now. Anyone know how many more levels there are?

Gromit · 04-16-03, 07:20 AM

I have the Xbox vesion, but couldn't really get into it. Same reasons Josh Hinkle mentioned.

Minor nitpicky stuff: The Xbox promos use the line "I am a splinter cell". That makes sense to me. The PS2 demo says "I am splinter cell". Huh? It's like "ich bin ein berliner" all over again.

jrutz · 04-16-03, 08:25 AM

I couldn't get into it at first, but then I just sat down and played it through the night and was hooked. I don't think the idea of Splinter Cell is a cohesive storyline, although there is a running plotline through each of the missions as described in the cut scenes. But each separate mission is supposed to feel independently important, and if you don't feel that you won't get immersed. I just love the fact I'm dropped in the middle of enemy territory and have to find a way through while meeting my objectives.

I also think about the sheer genius in gameplay design, in that there are several ways in each mission to accomplish the end goal. Granted, there are checkpoints along the way that have to be met, but the fun in the trial-and-error gameplay is to go back and see what happens if you do something different. Like in the CIA HQ level, I couldn't get past a couple guards in the hallway so I would sneak up behind one, knock him out and leave him in the middle of the hallway in a dark spot. Then I would attract another guard and lead him to the body, and when he found it he would crouch down to check on him. I'd then proceed to run up behind him and knock him out. Good way to save ammo.

I'm also constantly amazed by the lighting in this game, although I'm a little disappointed at how little effect your shadow has on a guard spotting Sam. I think in playing the PS2 version before the XBox or PC version, some of that "wow" effect is lost, leaving the core gameplay wide open for criticism.

Still, it's not about the story, it's more about the thrill of stealth. Think of it as having as much of a story as other Clancy games, like Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon. There's a consistent, albeit minor plotline running through each mission, but the missions themselves are largely standalone.

Jeremy

Joshic · 04-16-03, 09:14 AM

I played the XBox version. I didn't think the game was hard at all. Not too easy either. The difficulty was just right. I also didn't think there was much trial and error involved. I thought that the vast majority of the time, it was very clear what your objectives were, and what you had to do to achieve them.

The hardest part was not knowing what to do, but doing what you know - that is, the tricky part was timing everything just right so you don't get caught or killed.

It's definitely not a game for casual players - but then again, should a stealth based game be a "casual" type game? I don't think so. I think platformers are great casual games. But neither Splinter Cell nor Metal Gear can be considered casual games. They are about delivering intense, immersive experiences. And they deliver.

Captain Harlock · 04-16-03, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joshic
I played the XBox version. I didn't think the game was hard at all. Not too easy either. The difficulty was just right. I also didn't think there was much trial and error involved. I thought that the vast majority of the time, it was very clear what your objectives were, and what you had to do to achieve them.

The hardest part was not knowing what to do, but doing what you know - that is, the tricky part was timing everything just right so you don't get caught or killed.

It's definitely not a game for casual players - but then again, should a stealth based game be a "casual" type game? I don't think so. I think platformers are great casual games. But neither Splinter Cell nor Metal Gear can be considered casual games. They are about delivering intense, immersive experiences. And they deliver.

See that's one of the problems I'm having with Splinter Cell. I'm not finding it immersive in the least. The story is almost beside the point thus far. Unlike Metal Gear where I rivetted saying to myself "WOW! What's going to happen next?". Splinter Cell feels like a bunch of seperate, disjointed and unrelated missions. There's little or no motivation to other than "following orders".

Sam Fisher also seems to be a rather dull, flat, undynamic character. Great characters like Solid Snake, Wolverine, Daredevil, and even James Bond have more going on under the surface. Sam Fisher aspires to those roles but in the end he just follows orders to the letter. There seems to be little else driving him and that makes the character, for me at least, very unappealing and not very fun to play as.

I'd hate to say it, but Sam Fisher almost makes covert ops seem boring.

Joshic · 04-16-03, 11:26 AM

Quote:

I'd hate to say it, but Sam Fisher almost makes covert ops seem boring.

I'm sure we all know that most covert operatives in real-life are nothing like their movie counterparts (James Bond et al). They are usually much more discreet and tend to have toned-down personalities. Which is natural, because covert ops should not be attracting attention to themselves.

So I guess you could say that Sam Fisher in Splinter Cell is much more realistic than Snake in Metal Gear. Of course, realistic does not always equate to "fun" or a "good story."

Personally I thought the cutscenes and story was put together well. And the story was plausible, unlike Metal Gear. Of course, the story in Final Fantasy games are also completely implausible, but I still love them too. Perhaps you were looking for more of a "fantasy" slant to a game, whereas Splinter Cell is more on the realistic side.

RocShemp · 04-16-03, 11:52 AM

I guess I'll give my rental a visit for this game then. I guess seeing Tom Clancy's name on top of the title got me hoping it'd notonly be a fun and intense game but also have a rich complex story like those found the Jack Ryan and John Clark novels. (In fact, why the heck doesn't Clancy write a novel about Sam Fisher?) Oddly enough, the lack of a complex story did not bother me when playing Ghost Recon.

Josh H · 04-16-03, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joshic

The hardest part was not knowing what to do, but doing what you know - that is, the tricky part was timing everything just right so you don't get caught or killed.

Ah, but that's the trial and error I was referring too-- getting the timing just right, hiding bodies just right, walking through the shadows just right, etc. etc.

That just was not fun for me.

menaz · 04-16-03, 12:18 PM

I would much rather have a Raiden over a Sam Fisher anytime. Splinter Cells gameplay is much deeper than Metal Gear, however, I think it lacks on the story. The story is just pretty much based on mission briefs. I thought I was going to get to like and feel something for the characters when *SPOILER*

his daughter was kidnapped, but it happens to soon in the game and that doesnt get developed into much. Eventhough I am close to finishing the game, I have been there for the past 3 months because the story doesnt make me want to know what happens.

slop101 · 04-16-03, 04:41 PM

I have never ever cared one whit about a video game's story.

That's what books and movies are for.

Video games are for playing.

Armando · 04-16-03, 05:12 PM

Hmm. The story in Spinter Cell won the Game Developers Choice Award for writing. Seems like it would have a good story!

Snowmaker · 04-16-03, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Snowmaker
I'm on the Presidential Palace level now. Anyone know how many more levels there are?

Nobody knows??

Lastblade · 04-16-03, 06:43 PM

I love Splinter Cell.... The game rewards you with creative thinking AND the free camera on the right analog stick is KEY.... You have to constant look around your environment for ways to get around the obstacle.... I love it, yah, some parts are more trial and error-ish but I still find the game unbelievably fun.

04-15-03, 09:19 PM	#1
Captain Harlock DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,371	"I am Sam Fisher, I am a Splinter Cell".....uuhhh...okay..... Okay don't take this as a troll everyone, but I'd like your opinions on this. I finally got around to playing Splinter Cell on the PS2 the other night. I have to say that honestly, I'm more than a bit underwhelmed. Graphically it's a nice piece of work. But I'd have to say that the story line and most of the characters are really flat, dull and one dimensional. Sam Fisher aspires to be some kind of "uber agent" but I just kept saying"What am I doing again? And more importantly why am I supposed to care?" Basically the game's story really isn't very riveting. I've only played about 20% or so of the game it so far there hasn't been anything about any of the characters or about Sam Fisher that makes them/it memorable. There's no other motivation besides "following orders" as incentive for Sam to complete his mission and there's no real reason to like Sam. Hell I even liked Raiden more after Solidus delved into his past. I was really thinking of buying this game but after playing it for a while now I might wait till it shows up in the Greatest Hits section. I don't know am I missing something? __________________ "And that calls for an MXC Impact Replay!!".... Vic Romano

04-15-03, 09:48 PM	#2
RocShemp DVD Talk Legend Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 24,075	Darn. I was hoping with Tom Clancy's name attatched the developers would have at least made a multifaceted nail biter as an homage to Clancy's novels. BTW, I caught aglimpse at the new intro for the PS2 version (I was passing by KB today and they had it on but without audio) and it looked really intense though a bitoverblown (I though the chopper with guns blazing was a bit much). So is it that this game started big and then suddenly slowed to a crawl or is it boring from the getgo? I ask as your Raiden comment intruiged me. MGS2:SOL was a bit slow at parts and I could have lived without the (seemingly speed induced) overblown final act but the game always managed to keep my attention and I cared about the characters (even Raiden cos I wanted him to get home so he could strangle Rosemary). Last edited by RocShemp; 04-15-03 at 09:51 PM.

04-15-03, 09:52 PM	#3
thegame370 DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Bronx, NY Posts: 1,958	This game is awesome! I have it for Xbox which is quite frankly the best way to play it. Ive seen the way it looks for the PS2, and its pretty but not nearly as pretty as it is for the box. But aside from that, i dont think theres anything wrong with the story. Maybe you need to get into it further, it gets really interesting later on and very tough, especially when you have to infiltrate the CIA HQ. Personally, i love the game, its one of the best i have for my XBox and a great game all around. __________________ whoa My DVD Collection My Game Collection http://live.xbox.com/member/Chaos31

04-15-03, 10:07 PM	#4
Lethal Nemesis DVD Talk Hall of Fame Join Date: May 2001 Location: California Posts: 7,613	While I did follow the story somewhat, I admit that it didn't really interest me or hold my attention that much. I didn't really care for Sam, but hell, I liked the gameplay so much that none of that other stuff mattered to me (although at times it feels like it's nothing more than trial and error). I haven't played the PS2 version, so I can't compare graphics, but the Xbox version looks amazing to say the least. __________________ how you gon' get fired on your day off?

04-15-03, 10:16 PM	#8
Gallant Pig Mod Emeritus Join Date: Aug 1999 Posts: 15,325	Point taken. __________________ "OMG, HAHAHAHAA, OMG, HAHAHAHAHAA" - Zuffy referring to this thread

04-15-03, 10:09 PM	#5
Josh H Retired Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 27,389	I played the X-box versions at a friends a few weeks ago and was underwhelmed as well. I didn't mind the lack of plot really, it was just the gameplay wasn't my cup of tea. Too much trial and error. It was just a chore to figure out what to do and how to do it successfully for my tastes. It felt more like work than play, and I play games pretty much soley to relax and unwind from the real world. I think this is more of a game for hard core gamers that are into intense gaming experiences.

04-15-03, 10:15 PM	#7
Josh H Retired Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 27,389	But it's a different kind of trial and error. You just get in a room and generally have an unlimited amount of time to figure out what to do. In splinter cell and other stealth based games it's more go a little ways, get caught, start back at the beginning or a continue point, get past that, get a little further, get caught, start over, repeat ad nauseum. I'm by no means saying Splinter Cell is a bad game. It's a great game for the genre. It's just that those type of games just arent my cup of tea.

04-15-03, 10:31 PM	#9
BigPete DVD Talk Hall of Fame Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: not CT Posts: 9,479	Did you watch the opening movie? At least the movie on the PC version got my heart pumping. __________________ "What, are you kidding? Leviticus is an action packed thrill a minute! From the beginning where the lord tells Moses how to properly sacrifice animals (with much talk of blood and killing and the word "asunder" used a couple of times), to the very end where he's telling Moses what the value of a human being is, insofar as how much he should give to priests. And the bit in the middle about how everyone should keep their clothes on? Wow, just WOW, that's all I have to say." -Otto

04-16-03, 12:21 AM	#11
Static Cling Admin Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Texas, our Texas! All hail the mighty state! Posts: 12,839	I call shenanigans... no one liked Raiden. The story gets rolling a little later, if I remember right. __________________ Mike's Collection They stompled all over me. - Thunderball Hippies take things from all cultures and make it suck. - kvrdave

04-16-03, 04:58 AM	#12
Shimmer35 DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: West Palm Beach, FL, USA Posts: 1,250	Splinter Cell is great. It does however get very frustrating on the last couple of levels (Well, the xbox version anyway, I heard they made the AI a little easier in the ps2 version). Of course the game is not perfect, but it is still a great game. And the story does get better at the last few missions. __________________ Gold Trader

04-16-03, 06:25 AM	#13
Snowmaker DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 10,979	I LOVE the game. I had just finished Halo and The Thing before buying Splinter Cell so, at first, I was really bored with it because I just wanted to run around and shoot everything. But once I got used to it it is really fun. I now see everything as lights and shadows in my regular everyday life. I'm on the Presidential Palace level now. Anyone know how many more levels there are? __________________ My Blu-rays & DVDs at dvdaficionado.com

04-16-03, 07:20 AM	#14
Gromit DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,832	I have the Xbox vesion, but couldn't really get into it. Same reasons Josh Hinkle mentioned. Minor nitpicky stuff: The Xbox promos use the line "I am a splinter cell". That makes sense to me. The PS2 demo says "I am splinter cell". Huh? It's like "ich bin ein berliner" all over again. __________________ What if the Hokey-Pokey really is what it's all about? XBL: Gromit

04-16-03, 08:25 AM	#15
jrutz DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NYC...no longer! Collegeville, PA Posts: 1,233	I couldn't get into it at first, but then I just sat down and played it through the night and was hooked. I don't think the idea of Splinter Cell is a cohesive storyline, although there is a running plotline through each of the missions as described in the cut scenes. But each separate mission is supposed to feel independently important, and if you don't feel that you won't get immersed. I just love the fact I'm dropped in the middle of enemy territory and have to find a way through while meeting my objectives. I also think about the sheer genius in gameplay design, in that there are several ways in each mission to accomplish the end goal. Granted, there are checkpoints along the way that have to be met, but the fun in the trial-and-error gameplay is to go back and see what happens if you do something different. Like in the CIA HQ level, I couldn't get past a couple guards in the hallway so I would sneak up behind one, knock him out and leave him in the middle of the hallway in a dark spot. Then I would attract another guard and lead him to the body, and when he found it he would crouch down to check on him. I'd then proceed to run up behind him and knock him out. Good way to save ammo. I'm also constantly amazed by the lighting in this game, although I'm a little disappointed at how little effect your shadow has on a guard spotting Sam. I think in playing the PS2 version before the XBox or PC version, some of that "wow" effect is lost, leaving the core gameplay wide open for criticism. Still, it's not about the story, it's more about the thrill of stealth. Think of it as having as much of a story as other Clancy games, like Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon. There's a consistent, albeit minor plotline running through each mission, but the missions themselves are largely standalone. Jeremy __________________ Finally a DVDTalk GOLD trader! Finally a DVD Talk Special Edition member! XBox Live GamerTag: SpotAnime

04-16-03, 09:14 AM	#16
Joshic DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,034	I played the XBox version. I didn't think the game was hard at all. Not too easy either. The difficulty was just right. I also didn't think there was much trial and error involved. I thought that the vast majority of the time, it was very clear what your objectives were, and what you had to do to achieve them. The hardest part was not knowing what to do, but doing what you know - that is, the tricky part was timing everything just right so you don't get caught or killed. It's definitely not a game for casual players - but then again, should a stealth based game be a "casual" type game? I don't think so. I think platformers are great casual games. But neither Splinter Cell nor Metal Gear can be considered casual games. They are about delivering intense, immersive experiences. And they deliver.

04-16-03, 11:52 AM	#19
RocShemp DVD Talk Legend Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 24,075	I guess I'll give my rental a visit for this game then. I guess seeing Tom Clancy's name on top of the title got me hoping it'd notonly be a fun and intense game but also have a rich complex story like those found the Jack Ryan and John Clark novels. (In fact, why the heck doesn't Clancy write a novel about Sam Fisher?) Oddly enough, the lack of a complex story did not bother me when playing Ghost Recon.

04-16-03, 12:18 PM	#21
menaz Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 797	I would much rather have a Raiden over a Sam Fisher anytime. Splinter Cells gameplay is much deeper than Metal Gear, however, I think it lacks on the story. The story is just pretty much based on mission briefs. I thought I was going to get to like and feel something for the characters when SPOILER his daughter was kidnapped, but it happens to soon in the game and that doesnt get developed into much. Eventhough I am close to finishing the game, I have been there for the past 3 months because the story doesnt make me want to know what happens.

04-16-03, 04:41 PM	#22
slop101 DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Cali Posts: 17,101	I have never ever cared one whit about a video game's story. That's what books and movies are for. Video games are for playing.

04-16-03, 05:12 PM	#23
Armando Senior Member Join Date: Aug 1999 Posts: 433	Hmm. The story in Spinter Cell won the Game Developers Choice Award for writing. Seems like it would have a good story! __________________ DVD Collection For Trade List Gold Trader

04-16-03, 06:43 PM	#25
Lastblade DVD Talk Gold Edition Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,473	I love Splinter Cell.... The game rewards you with creative thinking AND the free camera on the right analog stick is KEY.... You have to constant look around your environment for ways to get around the obstacle.... I love it, yah, some parts are more trial and error-ish but I still find the game unbelievably fun.