XBox Japanese launch appears to be disappointing
#27
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Originally posted by Tuan Jim
You talking about PC Games or Consoles? Either way, I guess Bungie doesn't mean anything to you -- never a bad game from them (Marathon, Myth, Myth II, Halo, etc -- well maybe Oni fell a little short). How 'bout Black Isle Studios (best RPG's around)? Shiny entertainment (MDK 1, Earthworm Jim, etc), Bioware (MDK 2, etc), Valve, Bethesda, Blizzard, The Ion storm team (Deus Ex -- NOT Daikatana), Looking Glass Studios (Thief series, System Shock, etc.), etc?
Very sweeping generalization you made. Not cool.
Tuan Jim
You talking about PC Games or Consoles? Either way, I guess Bungie doesn't mean anything to you -- never a bad game from them (Marathon, Myth, Myth II, Halo, etc -- well maybe Oni fell a little short). How 'bout Black Isle Studios (best RPG's around)? Shiny entertainment (MDK 1, Earthworm Jim, etc), Bioware (MDK 2, etc), Valve, Bethesda, Blizzard, The Ion storm team (Deus Ex -- NOT Daikatana), Looking Glass Studios (Thief series, System Shock, etc.), etc?
Very sweeping generalization you made. Not cool.
Tuan Jim
Black Isle did make Planescape Torment, and I enjoyed that, but I got really tired of Icewind Dale's lack of running ability (traversing all the way across the screen after coming back from defeating the monsters is the lamest thing ever). Same goes for Baldur's Gate, which I never finished because I completely lost my interest in it. This is why I've now given up on PC gaming.
The US companies that DID matter - Sierra and LucasArts during their golden heydays of adventure games and others like Betrayal at Krondor, TIE Fighter, etc., are long gone (in spirit). Konami has kept its classics and are able to enhance them for a new generatione every time (Castlevania, Metal Gear, etc.). THIS is what the US developers are truly sorely lacking - a sense of classic gaming along with new technology.
I never made a sweeping generalization - I did put an IMO next to it, didn't I? But to me, US developers do not have much worthwhile games to consider anymore. Yeah, some interests more once in a while, like SSX Tricky, but I'd say right now, 90% of the games I want come from Japan.
Last edited by Grimfarrow; 02-28-02 at 03:00 PM.
#28
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Originally posted by Gallant Pig
Jeff you need to better word your opinions. The term "exclusive" is very vague and for the most part, meaningless in the world of gaming today.
Jeff you need to better word your opinions. The term "exclusive" is very vague and for the most part, meaningless in the world of gaming today.
Doesn't help that most of the companies that that provide exclusives worth having are in japan...
Read it out load it might help.
How about at a 5rd grade level?
Japanese companies make some exclusive games. They are often good. I like their exclusive games. I like them more then the exclusive games made elsewhere.
I never went into a comparision of general games, I never said any country sucked or ruled. I'm talking about exclusive games, and how I like those games that which are exclusive from japan more. Obviously the qoute is an opnion. I don't think that's hard to understand.
This whole situation is much more people twisting things to either meet their own "points" or to cause problems.
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Originally posted by Grimfarrow
I never made a sweeping generalization - I did put an IMO next to it, didn't I? But to me, US developers do not have much worthwhile games to consider anymore. Yeah, some interests more once in a while, like SSX Tricky, but I'd say right now, 90% of the games I want come from Japan.
I never made a sweeping generalization - I did put an IMO next to it, didn't I? But to me, US developers do not have much worthwhile games to consider anymore. Yeah, some interests more once in a while, like SSX Tricky, but I'd say right now, 90% of the games I want come from Japan.
Tuan Jim
#31
I think it's safe to say from a PC gamer's POV, the US has excellent developers. From a console gamer's POV, Japan is very strong, but the US and Europe are beginning to get stronger there.
#32
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GP I tried replying maturally one to many times. It's all there to read. The only way it seems people will listen is to lower yourself to their level. I usually don't, I apologize. At the same time I shouldn't need to explain the same thing over in several, several different posts.
#33
Originally posted by jeffdsmith
GP I tried replying maturally one to many times. It's all there to read. The only way it seems people will listen is to lower yourself to their level. I usually don't, I apologize. At the same time I shouldn't need to explain the same thing over in several, several different posts.
GP I tried replying maturally one to many times. It's all there to read. The only way it seems people will listen is to lower yourself to their level. I usually don't, I apologize. At the same time I shouldn't need to explain the same thing over in several, several different posts.
Honestly, I think the Xbox will fail in Japan. The big question is can it survive without Japan? Hopefully it will do better in Europe, but even that doesn't look good considering its price. It seems to me that MS is setting itself up for its next product by building a name/reputation in the Xbox that will make next product more desirable to Japan and Europe.
PS I wasn't trying to twist your words around, it was an honest mistake. And no, I'm not the world's greatest reader at times.
#34
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Originally posted by Deftones17
you seriously think that by only selling 125,000 systems, the launch was a failure? I'd say that's probably more of a success than any of the next gen system launches in the U.S. market. The Japanese market is very fickle. You need to know that this is the first American made video game system to debut in Japan in a long time. I'd say a user base like that to begin with is pretty damn good start for Microsoft.
you seriously think that by only selling 125,000 systems, the launch was a failure? I'd say that's probably more of a success than any of the next gen system launches in the U.S. market. The Japanese market is very fickle. You need to know that this is the first American made video game system to debut in Japan in a long time. I'd say a user base like that to begin with is pretty damn good start for Microsoft.
Microsoft wouldn't have shipped 250,000 units there if they didn't think they could sell them. This is disapointing, any way you slice it. There are a lot more than 125,000 hardcore gamers in Japan, and a lot of the audience didn't go for the XBox. I think there are 10 million PS2's there, by comparison.
#35
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Originally posted by Spicollidriver1
There is considerably more money to be made in Japan then the US a system is not dead until japan says it's dead.
There is considerably more money to be made in Japan then the US a system is not dead until japan says it's dead.
Japan and the U.S. Two different tastes in videogames, hence, two different markets that are being treated as such. Of course, Japanese developers make great games in certain genres (action, RPG, sports) but I don't think their style is an essential for the survival of the Xbox in the U.S. I myself prefer the American style of presenting an RPG (I'm positive many are anxiously waiting for Morrowind).
In the U.S., all the buzz in the multiplayer arena is over FPS's. These games aren't coming from across the pond. They're developed on domestic soil and are a HUGE market. Just look at the extent people go to in developing mods, clans, maps, etc. for these types of games and you'll understand what I mean.
Sorry, this post is long enough already. In short, the Xbox in Japan could very well flop over and play dead. We could get minimal support from Japanese developers as well. This time, however, Japan does not dictate whether or not a console will survive in the U.S. It's certainly not the case with the Xbox.
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Originally posted by Tuan Jim
Ok, I admit I missed the IMO. Thought I read the whole thing carefully, but I guess not. Sorry for the tone. IMO, US developers are as good or better and produce a better variety of games. Guess we'll agree to disagree.
Tuan Jim
Ok, I admit I missed the IMO. Thought I read the whole thing carefully, but I guess not. Sorry for the tone. IMO, US developers are as good or better and produce a better variety of games. Guess we'll agree to disagree.
Tuan Jim
Considering that most US FPS, RTS and RPGs make it to Japan too, there is no way that they have "less" variety than us. It's actually the total opposite.
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Originally posted by Grimfarrow
Okay, the "better variety" statement is definitely false. In fact, US developers are *notorious* for not deviating from the standard FPS, RPG, and RTS formulae. You'll NEVER find US developers making something as quirky as "Mr. Mosquito", "Dance Dance Revolution", "Jet Set Radio", "Seaman", "Parappa the Rapper", and many others. Let's not even get into all the unique games that *aren't* localized for the US market, like "Sentimental Graffiti", "Tokimeki Memorial", "Policenauts", "Train de Go!", "Momotaro Dentei", "Derby Owners Club", and numerous "growth" games (Princess Maker, Mercurious Pretty, Debut, Graduation, etc.), dating games (Tokimemo, True Love Story, etc.), and even hentai games (Dokyusei, Dragon Knight, Eve: Burst Error, etc.).
Considering that most US FPS, RTS and RPGs make it to Japan too, there is no way that they have "less" variety than us. It's actually the total opposite.
Okay, the "better variety" statement is definitely false. In fact, US developers are *notorious* for not deviating from the standard FPS, RPG, and RTS formulae. You'll NEVER find US developers making something as quirky as "Mr. Mosquito", "Dance Dance Revolution", "Jet Set Radio", "Seaman", "Parappa the Rapper", and many others. Let's not even get into all the unique games that *aren't* localized for the US market, like "Sentimental Graffiti", "Tokimeki Memorial", "Policenauts", "Train de Go!", "Momotaro Dentei", "Derby Owners Club", and numerous "growth" games (Princess Maker, Mercurious Pretty, Debut, Graduation, etc.), dating games (Tokimemo, True Love Story, etc.), and even hentai games (Dokyusei, Dragon Knight, Eve: Burst Error, etc.).
Considering that most US FPS, RTS and RPGs make it to Japan too, there is no way that they have "less" variety than us. It's actually the total opposite.
PC games boil down to real skill tests, and while there is a wide range of variation within genres, the control remains static, and thus reflexive. Counter Strike, Deus Ex, and Quake 3 play very differently, but you can switch between them reflexively, rather than having to learn to play each new game.
If XBox offers better controller customizability, better online, and better visuals than the other systems, Microsoft can win over the "gamers" which has been their purported first target. Without the Japanese support, they have no chance of dominating in the way they certainly want to, but the niche audience who they seem to have had success with is a niche that spends a lot of money on games. The average XBox owner will likely buy more games per capita than the average PS2 or GameCube owner, and that may save Microsoft from taking a bath on the system, and may entice developers, in spite of the system's smaller user base.
And if Blizzard puts out an XBox exclusive online game, I will buy an XBox, as much as I hate the huge damn thing and its ugly green "jewel" and its big ugly controller, and smarmy Bill Gates.
#38
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Originally posted by Grimfarrow
Okay, the "better variety" statement is definitely false.
Okay, the "better variety" statement is definitely false.
Tuan Jim
#39
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Originally posted by Tuan Jim
Did you miss the 2 "IMO"'s I stuck in my last message? I said we'll agree to disagree.
Tuan Jim
Did you miss the 2 "IMO"'s I stuck in my last message? I said we'll agree to disagree.
Tuan Jim
I'm not sure how aware you are of the Japanese game market, but whatever companies import to the US represent a VERY small fraction of the genres and diversity available there.
#40
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I'm well aware of some of the absolutely bizarre titles that come out, but since I was writing "IMO" I said "better variety", not "larger variety".
Tuan Jim
Tuan Jim
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back on topic
to get back on the original topic, here are some sales figures:
- It was clarified that Microsoft has sold 123,334 units of XBox for the first weekend of the launch in Japan (Feb 22 - 24). As of February 24, the average game shops across Japan has sold about 50% of the stocks. Here are the sales of some of the XBox launch titles:
Dead or Alive 3 - 73,604 units
Genma Onimusha - 19,600 units
Project Gotham Racing - 15,925 units
Jet Set Radio Future - 9,800 units
Double S.T.E.A.L. - 8575 units
Nezumi Kuzu: Have a Mice Day - 8575 units
Air Force Delta II - 7350 units
- Here is a comparison chart of the console launches in Japan.
Microsoft XBox - 123,334
Nintendo GameCube - 175,000
Sony PlayStation 2 - 680,000 units
Sega Dreamcast - 120,000 units
Sega Saturn - 107,000 units
Sony PlayStation - 101,000 units
(* No data for Nintendo 64 launch)
This comes from: http://www.the-magicbox.com under news.
As per the topic of XBox success/support in Japan:
Let me preface this by saying I do not like the Xbox. I will try not to console bash, but explain my opinion.
I believe the majority of the current japanese development support is aimed at the US market, not Japan. I would guess that most japanese developers do not believe the Xbox will be a success in Japan, but that it will be much more successful in the US. Now that the console has launched in Japan, I do not expect to see anything more than token support from Japanese developers. There will still be some bigger titles developed in Japan, but only ones that will also appeal to the american market. I also expect to see a number of the bigger japanese titles eventually ported to PS2, such as JSRF, DinoCrisis, and even DOA3. THe PS2 market is just too big to be ignored.
In my opinion, japanese developers are still superior to their american counterparts overall. American developers do excel at PC games and subsequently its popular genres, FPS, RTS, and US style RPGs. The majority of US Xbox developers are PC game developers, as it is easy to port to it and uses DirectX. I think the majority of the current Xbox customer base are PC gamers, who are happy with its PC styled games and ports, and more comfortable with the Microsoft name. However, MS will have to move beyond this niche audience to gain mainstream acceptance, and that is where they direly need traditional japanese developer support. Sony did not sell 30 million PSOnes in the US with a bunch of US developed PC ports and FPSs. They did it with Namco, Capcom, Konami and Square.
This year's E3 is an enormous one for all 3 console makers. If Xbox has a ton of new AAA titles from a wide base of US and Japanese developers, it should remain a contender. But if it's just a bunch of clunky US pc clone FPSs with words like 'dark' and 'shadow' in their titles and tormented vampires as their protagonists, they have resigned themselves to second or third place and a niche base of PC fanboys.
If Nintendo doesn't deliver the goods with at least Mario and Zelda, if not also Mario Kart, Metroid, and all the Rare titles, they are up the creek. I think they know this, though, and are smart enough to pull something out of their collective hat.
Sony has to continue their string of AAA must have exclusive titles to maintain their lead. A price cut will help, and a wide variety of genres will too. This will be the year of online console gaming, and everybody, especially Sony, need to figure out the if, how, and why people want online gaming. Will FFXI be a hit? Do people want to buy extra peripherals to get online? Does Joe Six Pack even care about Online gaming?
Okay, I have to end this rant. Release the robotic Richard Simmons!!!!
- It was clarified that Microsoft has sold 123,334 units of XBox for the first weekend of the launch in Japan (Feb 22 - 24). As of February 24, the average game shops across Japan has sold about 50% of the stocks. Here are the sales of some of the XBox launch titles:
Dead or Alive 3 - 73,604 units
Genma Onimusha - 19,600 units
Project Gotham Racing - 15,925 units
Jet Set Radio Future - 9,800 units
Double S.T.E.A.L. - 8575 units
Nezumi Kuzu: Have a Mice Day - 8575 units
Air Force Delta II - 7350 units
- Here is a comparison chart of the console launches in Japan.
Microsoft XBox - 123,334
Nintendo GameCube - 175,000
Sony PlayStation 2 - 680,000 units
Sega Dreamcast - 120,000 units
Sega Saturn - 107,000 units
Sony PlayStation - 101,000 units
(* No data for Nintendo 64 launch)
This comes from: http://www.the-magicbox.com under news.
As per the topic of XBox success/support in Japan:
Let me preface this by saying I do not like the Xbox. I will try not to console bash, but explain my opinion.
I believe the majority of the current japanese development support is aimed at the US market, not Japan. I would guess that most japanese developers do not believe the Xbox will be a success in Japan, but that it will be much more successful in the US. Now that the console has launched in Japan, I do not expect to see anything more than token support from Japanese developers. There will still be some bigger titles developed in Japan, but only ones that will also appeal to the american market. I also expect to see a number of the bigger japanese titles eventually ported to PS2, such as JSRF, DinoCrisis, and even DOA3. THe PS2 market is just too big to be ignored.
In my opinion, japanese developers are still superior to their american counterparts overall. American developers do excel at PC games and subsequently its popular genres, FPS, RTS, and US style RPGs. The majority of US Xbox developers are PC game developers, as it is easy to port to it and uses DirectX. I think the majority of the current Xbox customer base are PC gamers, who are happy with its PC styled games and ports, and more comfortable with the Microsoft name. However, MS will have to move beyond this niche audience to gain mainstream acceptance, and that is where they direly need traditional japanese developer support. Sony did not sell 30 million PSOnes in the US with a bunch of US developed PC ports and FPSs. They did it with Namco, Capcom, Konami and Square.
This year's E3 is an enormous one for all 3 console makers. If Xbox has a ton of new AAA titles from a wide base of US and Japanese developers, it should remain a contender. But if it's just a bunch of clunky US pc clone FPSs with words like 'dark' and 'shadow' in their titles and tormented vampires as their protagonists, they have resigned themselves to second or third place and a niche base of PC fanboys.
If Nintendo doesn't deliver the goods with at least Mario and Zelda, if not also Mario Kart, Metroid, and all the Rare titles, they are up the creek. I think they know this, though, and are smart enough to pull something out of their collective hat.
Sony has to continue their string of AAA must have exclusive titles to maintain their lead. A price cut will help, and a wide variety of genres will too. This will be the year of online console gaming, and everybody, especially Sony, need to figure out the if, how, and why people want online gaming. Will FFXI be a hit? Do people want to buy extra peripherals to get online? Does Joe Six Pack even care about Online gaming?
Okay, I have to end this rant. Release the robotic Richard Simmons!!!!
#43
keith, nice well thought out opinion. To me, the xbox is starting to look stronger and stronger. It sounds like Virtua Fighter 4 is coming, the Star Wars game looks really strong, and a few others look good too. It is definitely an American console, and in that regard, I like the fact that Sega is giving us their American games like Crazy Taxi Next, and Jet Grind Radio. I guess games where you are a mosquito flying around sound OK, but I don't think it would be fun for very long. I won't miss those games at all anyway. The only super strong Japanese games I don't see coming to the Xbox are Final Fantasy (cuz Sony has a stake in Square) and Biohazard. Maybe it's the little ones that make the difference, but I wouldn't want to play those ones anyway.
#44
DVD Talk Legend
I think everyone needs to face the fact that Sony has too strong of a lead to overcome in Japan and probably the US. That doesn't mean the Xbox or Gamecube aren't worth owning, but Xbox owners will have to deal with the fact that the PS2 is going to get a lot of quality titles either exclusively or a few months ahead of the competition. I've owned a Dreamcast, N64, and Saturn in recent years and missing out on stuff comes with the territory with a second or third place console. The Xbox will have some exclusives, but Sony is the king of the current console era and its going to be tough not owning one.
#45
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Originally posted by Gallant Pig
keith, nice well thought out opinion. To me, the xbox is starting to look stronger and stronger. It sounds like Virtua Fighter 4 is coming, the Star Wars game looks really strong, and a few others look good too. It is definitely an American console, and in that regard, I like the fact that Sega is giving us their American games like Crazy Taxi Next, and Jet Grind Radio. I guess games where you are a mosquito flying around sound OK, but I don't think it would be fun for very long. I won't miss those games at all anyway. The only super strong Japanese games I don't see coming to the Xbox are Final Fantasy (cuz Sony has a stake in Square) and Biohazard. Maybe it's the little ones that make the difference, but I wouldn't want to play those ones anyway.
keith, nice well thought out opinion. To me, the xbox is starting to look stronger and stronger. It sounds like Virtua Fighter 4 is coming, the Star Wars game looks really strong, and a few others look good too. It is definitely an American console, and in that regard, I like the fact that Sega is giving us their American games like Crazy Taxi Next, and Jet Grind Radio. I guess games where you are a mosquito flying around sound OK, but I don't think it would be fun for very long. I won't miss those games at all anyway. The only super strong Japanese games I don't see coming to the Xbox are Final Fantasy (cuz Sony has a stake in Square) and Biohazard. Maybe it's the little ones that make the difference, but I wouldn't want to play those ones anyway.
If PS2 got DOA3, it would be the same sort of deal, though. Not much of a coup at all.
#46
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Re: back on topic
Originally posted by keithf25
In my opinion, japanese developers are still superior to their american counterparts overall. American developers do excel at PC games and subsequently its popular genres, FPS, RTS, and US style RPGs ........ However, MS will have to move beyond this niche audience to gain mainstream acceptance, and that is where they direly need traditional japanese developer support. Sony did not sell 30 million PSOnes in the US with a bunch of US developed PC ports and FPSs. They did it with Namco, Capcom, Konami and Square.
In my opinion, japanese developers are still superior to their american counterparts overall. American developers do excel at PC games and subsequently its popular genres, FPS, RTS, and US style RPGs ........ However, MS will have to move beyond this niche audience to gain mainstream acceptance, and that is where they direly need traditional japanese developer support. Sony did not sell 30 million PSOnes in the US with a bunch of US developed PC ports and FPSs. They did it with Namco, Capcom, Konami and Square.
Originally posted by keithf25
This year's E3 is an enormous one for all 3 console makers. If Xbox has a ton of new AAA titles from a wide base of US and Japanese developers, it should remain a contender. But if it's just a bunch of clunky US pc clone FPSs....
This year's E3 is an enormous one for all 3 console makers. If Xbox has a ton of new AAA titles from a wide base of US and Japanese developers, it should remain a contender. But if it's just a bunch of clunky US pc clone FPSs....
#47
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Originally posted by ScandalUMD
Virtua Fighter 4 is a PS2 exclusive. How long that exclusivity lasts is anyone's guess, but we only have rumors ...... If XBox gets VF4 a year from now, well, it will be an old game and a moot point. It's coming out on PS2 in a couple of weeks. It will be nice for XBox owners to get, but it won't sell any consoles. And I don't think anyone bought an XBox expecting to play year-old PS2 games.
If PS2 got DOA3, it would be the same sort of deal, though. Not much of a coup at all.
Virtua Fighter 4 is a PS2 exclusive. How long that exclusivity lasts is anyone's guess, but we only have rumors ...... If XBox gets VF4 a year from now, well, it will be an old game and a moot point. It's coming out on PS2 in a couple of weeks. It will be nice for XBox owners to get, but it won't sell any consoles. And I don't think anyone bought an XBox expecting to play year-old PS2 games.
If PS2 got DOA3, it would be the same sort of deal, though. Not much of a coup at all.
#48
DVD Talk Legend
Microsoft has no one to blame right now but themselves for the sluggish software lineup of the Xbox. They just announced their PC game lineup for the next year and its got some great titles. Rise of Nations, Links 2003, Combat Flight Simulator 3, and Age of Mythology to name a few. However, they have yet to announce when they will make these titles for Xbox. If Microsoft is not going to support their own console with their top PC titles then why bother making the Xbox. If the Xbox is only going to get them several months after the PC release its not worth it. Flight Simulator 2002, Links 2002, and Combat Flight Simulator 2 should have been launch titles. What do they give people instead? NFL Fever, which is maybe the third best football game out there. Thanks for nothing Microsoft.
#49
Originally posted by darkside
Microsoft has no one to blame right now but themselves for the sluggish software lineup of the Xbox.
Microsoft has no one to blame right now but themselves for the sluggish software lineup of the Xbox.
The lineup is anything but Sluggish. Why do you say that?
#50
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by Gallant Pig
The lineup is anything but Sluggish. Why do you say that?
The lineup is anything but Sluggish. Why do you say that?