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Old 11-11-01, 06:44 AM   #1
Original Desmond
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Can u be a Serious Gamer just using a PC ?

with all this talk about the Xbox and Gamecube, got me thinking. Most of us here, make that probably just about all of us have a PC, many with very good ones.

Now can u satisfy all gaming needs just with a PC ?

are there now enough games on the PC which rival even the new consoles like the PS2, Xbox and the gamecube ?

i personally never got into PC gaming, i found the installing and uninstalling and configuring for your PC too much of a pain ! Maybe things have changed now in the PC gaming world. Also when i did give PC gaming a go, there weren't many good action games and fighters for the PC, was mainly adventures and RPGs.

I just like the ease of use of consoles.
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Old 11-11-01, 08:06 AM   #2
djones6746
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Re: Can u be a Serious Gamer just using a PC ?

Quote:
Originally posted by Original Desmond
with all this talk about the Xbox and Gamecube, got me thinking. Most of us here, make that probably just about all of us have a PC, many with very good ones.

Now can u satisfy all gaming needs just with a PC ?

are there now enough games on the PC which rival even the new consoles like the PS2, Xbox and the gamecube ?

i personally never got into PC gaming, i found the installing and uninstalling and configuring for your PC too much of a pain ! Maybe things have changed now in the PC gaming world. Also when i did give PC gaming a go, there weren't many good action games and fighters for the PC, was mainly adventures and RPGs.

I just like the ease of use of consoles.

Exactly what turned me off with pc gaming........what memories....buying a new game only to have to work for an hour or so creating a boot disk in order for your game to run. Even with the new window environments it is still a pain in the arse when bringing home a game which requires above and beyond what your computer may be able to provide. With the power of these newer systems, I truly believe pc gaming will become a thing of the past. Why buy a game such as Max Payne when you will be able to purchase this title for the PS2 and Xbox??? Computers were the best bet years ago for a top notch game title which the older platforms could not handle. Problem for the computer market now is the fact that the consoles are able to handle games released for the PC and sometimes improve on the pc title. No more computer games for me....
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Old 11-11-01, 09:20 AM   #3
Feneant
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PC will always be better than all the consoles. The last 3 games I played on pc are :

Everquest
Dark Age of Camelot
Anarchy Online

Those games massacre anything that's ever been out for consoles (and they beat the crap out of Fantasy Star Online)... Pc games will always be better than consoles for many reasons, expansions, mods, multiplayer (more than 4 too I mean) and whatever. Some console might have some good graphics, but they are all linear games with no replay value whatsoever. Why would I waste my time playing Luigi Mansion or some pathetic game like it when I can waste my time playing a game with 2500 other players at the same time which has around a million times more content. No offense, but AI has been dead for years, unless you play against another human, the game just ain't fun. Like in FF for example, you have many allies, yet you control 3 or 4 at once in a group and they do nothing special... in a game like Dark Age of Camelot, you have a party of 8 players and they do their own thing, they can either get you killed or play well, it's never the same game. Games like Half Life... sure, you can buy HalfLife on a console, but you can't play any mods... Team Fortress, Counterstrike... same with Unreal Tournament, Tact. Ops, Infiltration, Strike Force... same with Quake 3 with Urban Terror, etc... why play console alone with no friends when you can play online with tons of different people.
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Old 11-11-01, 09:22 AM   #4
djones6746
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Quote:
Originally posted by Feneant
PC will always be better than all the consoles. The last 3 games I played on pc are :

Everquest
Dark Age of Camelot
Anarchy Online

Those games massacre anything that's ever been out for consoles (and they beat the crap out of Fantasy Star Online)... Pc games will always be better than consoles for many reasons, expansions, mods, multiplayer (more than 4 too I mean) and whatever. Some console might have some good graphics, but they are all linear games with no replay value whatsoever. Why would I waste my time playing Luigi Mansion or some pathetic game like it when I can waste my time playing a game with 2500 other players at the same time which has around a million times more content. No offense, but AI has been dead for years, unless you play against another human, the game just ain't fun. Like in FF for example, you have many allies, yet you control 3 or 4 at once in a group and they do nothing special... in a game like Dark Age of Camelot, you have a party of 8 players and they do their own thing, they can either get you killed or play well, it's never the same game. Games like Half Life... sure, you can buy HalfLife on a console, but you can't play any mods... Team Fortress, Counterstrike... same with Unreal Tournament, Tact. Ops, Infiltration, Strike Force... same with Quake 3 with Urban Terror, etc... why play console alone with no friends when you can play online with tons of different people.

Give it time....with systems such as the Xbox...the power is becoming more and more. In the future...the console systems will be able to perform as well as the computers.
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Old 11-11-01, 09:23 AM   #5
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Re: Re: Can u be a Serious Gamer just using a PC ?

Quote:
Originally posted by djones6746

With the power of these newer systems, I truly believe pc gaming will become a thing of the past.
People have been saying this for years, every time a new console comes out. Ain't gonna happen. What it boils down to is the keyboard and mouse: there are certain genres that don't work nearly as well with any other configuration, and nobody wants to sit in front of a TV with them. Besides the fact that PC's a year from now are going to be better than the XBox.
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Old 11-11-01, 09:38 AM   #6
djones6746
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Re: Re: Re: Can u be a Serious Gamer just using a PC ?

Quote:
Originally posted by Aghama

People have been saying this for years, every time a new console comes out. Ain't gonna happen. What it boils down to is the keyboard and mouse: there are certain genres that don't work nearly as well with any other configuration, and nobody wants to sit in front of a TV with them. Besides the fact that PC's a year from now are going to be better than the XBox.

Actually..they are better than the Xbox now...
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Old 11-11-01, 10:10 AM   #7
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It depends on what kind of games you like.

There is a pretty good variety of games on PC, but the only areas that it actually has an advantage of consoles are First Person Shooters and Strategy games.

IMO, consoles have a much better selection of games in other genres like, platformers, adventure, traditional rpgs (i.e. final fantasy) sports, fighting etc.

I'm not saying that the PC has none of those type of games, or even that the consoles have no good FPS's or strategy games, those are just the areas that each platform excels at.

I'm only a casual FPS fan and hate strategy games, so I stick to consoles. The hassle of upgrading memory, CPU's, and especially 3D graphics cards is just to much of a pain in the ass for me. Especially with the relatively small number of PC exclusives that I'd like to play.
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Old 11-11-01, 11:29 AM   #8
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Originally posted by joshhinkle

IMO, traditional rpgs (i.e. final fantasy)


RPG's?? All the console RPG's now are adventure games based in the future and they waste more times on FMV's than the actual games. Take Final Fantasy, they were great until you got the 7-9 which are now basically all just adventure games if you ask me.


I'm not saying that the PC has none of those type of games, or even that the consoles have no good FPS's or strategy games, those are just the areas that each platform excels at.


Problem here is that the screen divides in 4 blocks... that's a no no for playing a fun game. Golden eye was fun, but Goldeneye wasn't fun playing 4 on a 27 inch tv.
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Old 11-11-01, 12:22 PM   #9
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I can't stand PC gaming... i just don't like it. not one single game on my computer except The Sims and that is my wife's game.
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Old 11-11-01, 12:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Feneant
PC will always be better than all the consoles. The last 3 games I played on pc are :

Everquest
Dark Age of Camelot
Anarchy Online

Those games massacre anything that's ever been out for consoles (and they beat the crap out of Fantasy Star Online)... Pc games will always be better than consoles for many reasons, expansions, mods, multiplayer (more than 4 too I mean) and whatever. Some console might have some good graphics, but they are all linear games with no replay value whatsoever. Why would I waste my time playing Luigi Mansion or some pathetic game like it when I can waste my time playing a game with 2500 other players at the same time which has around a million times more content. No offense, but AI has been dead for years, unless you play against another human, the game just ain't fun. Like in FF for example, you have many allies, yet you control 3 or 4 at once in a group and they do nothing special... in a game like Dark Age of Camelot, you have a party of 8 players and they do their own thing, they can either get you killed or play well, it's never the same game. Games like Half Life... sure, you can buy HalfLife on a console, but you can't play any mods... Team Fortress, Counterstrike... same with Unreal Tournament, Tact. Ops, Infiltration, Strike Force... same with Quake 3 with Urban Terror, etc... why play console alone with no friends when you can play online with tons of different people.
I have issues with the "PC's will always be better than consoles" comment. It all depends on what you enjoy playing. I never could get into the whole"massive online" gaming stuff like Ultima Online, Everquest, etc, so that negates the PC being "better" than consoles in that department for me. The only genre I agree the PC is better for is FPS. I would NEVER play Quake 3 or Unreal Tournament on a console, but I would also NEVER play Sonic Adventure 2 or Dead or Alive 3 or Splashdown or Smackdown or Crash Bandicoot or Metal Gear Solid 2 or Devil May Cry or Ico or Shenmue etc etc on a PC. You seem to enjoy the "massive online multiplayer" stuff over anything else (you post hinted at that), so of course you like the PC better, but that does not in any way mean that "PC's will always be better than consoles". The last couple PC games I played were Max Payne and Diablo II. I will play Civilization 3 whenever I get around to buying it, but I hardly do any PC gaming any more. It just depends on what you like to play.
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Old 11-11-01, 01:54 PM   #11
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There are good things about both types of platforms.

I think the biggest things the PC has going for it are its customizability and upgradability... you can customize hardware, you can mod the games, you can play on a desktop or a laptop. And when your system is getting on the old side, you can upgrade, instead of having to buy the next-generation console, on which your old games probably don't work ( to Sony for thinking about backwards compatibility). This aspect also means that PCs will always have superior hardware to consoles. My computer that I've had for the past year has better hardware (processor, memory, etc.) than the XBox, GameCube, and PS2. The mouse-keyboard control system for FPSs has yet to be beat by the consoles. And I don't use it a whole lot, but right now, the PC has the consoles beat on online gaming.

It seems like PCs have yet to get football games as right as consoles have been getting them. That was the main reason I bought my PS2... for NCAA Football 2002. There are no college football games for the PC. Maybe because the PC game makers realize that the majority of people who want games like that own a console? I dunno. This may hold true for the rest of the sports games, but I'm not sure. And although I haven't had to make an install disk since the days of X-Wing, consoles have ease of use going for them. Just pop the game in, learn the controls, and go. No install phase.

So, to answer your original question... can you satisfy all your gaming wants with just a PC? I can't... I like my NCAA Football. However, I couldn't satisfy all my wants with all the consoles in the world, either. No Civilization? No Baldur's Gate? No X-Wing/Tie Fighter? No X-COM?!?! Forget it. I don't think there's any point in getting into a "What is better?" contest... they both have strengths. Maybe one day, consoles will have all the features of PCs... but then, they'll just be glorified PCs.

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Old 11-11-01, 02:10 PM   #12
Mitsurugi
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Re: Can u be a Serious Gamer just using a PC ?

Quote:
Originally posted by Original Desmond

Now can u satisfy all gaming needs just with a PC ?

are there now enough games on the PC which rival even the new consoles like the PS2, Xbox and the gamecube ?

No I wont be satisfied just playing pc games. I play the games on the machiens they were made for. If it was made for console then I play it on that, and same for the pc. I dont like playing fps on consoles, like James bond for N64. The thing I dont like about it, is that when playing multiplayer you can see where the other person is at. On the pc you get your on screen and can play with more players, via lan.
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Old 11-11-01, 03:21 PM   #13
ipkevin
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Quote:
Originally posted by joshhinkle
It depends on what kind of games you like.

There is a pretty good variety of games on PC, but the only areas that it actually has an advantage of consoles are First Person Shooters and Strategy games.

"First person" games really cover *multiple* genres. From heavily story-driven adventure games to turn-based RPGs to kill-em-all shooters to tactical games.

As for being a serious gamer, I'd say yes. The most variety of games are on the PC and generally all the biggest innovations come from there as well. I'd be more inclined to ask whether you can be a serious gamer with just a console. But really, a serious gamer is IMHO determined by how many hours you put into games or how obsessed you are with them, not how many systems you have.
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Old 11-11-01, 04:14 PM   #14
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The question is, "can you be a serious gamer WITHOUT using a PC?"
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Old 11-11-01, 06:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by tor_greg
The question is, "can you be a serious gamer WITHOUT using a PC?"
No Doubt... I can't believe this thread. PC gaming is the original gaming and it's the ultimate gaming. Xbox and Gamecube are both a year or two behind in technology even before they come out. PCs are upgradeable, updateable, and up to the task. I've been playing games on my PC for years and years. PC games have always been years ahead of console games in terms of graphics, gameplay and design.

Adventure games? What about Space Quest, Poice Quest, or Leisure Suit Larry? What about Sam and Max or Grim Fandango or Day of the Tentacle? Way better than anything I've seen on a console. Final Fantasy? I've never understood the appeal of that game... they show you a movie and they you move these little goofy mario looking people around in bad graphics and then you come across a creature to fight... then you attack... wait... defend... wait... attack. It's so boring. That's not even a game. First Person Shooters can have the adventure part, the RPG part and the action part. Plus the in-game graphics look as good if not better than the FMV sequences of Final Fantasy games.

Another advantage the PC has is the controllers. You can buy a controller that best fits your needs - they even have ones like Playstation controllers and such. The controllers for the PC are typically better designed than the ones for consoles.

Plus - you can play any console game on a PC using emulation software and roms. You can also download them from just about anywhere (don't ask cuz I'm not gonna tell you where - forum rules prohibit) for free. There's way more games available for the PC than there will ever be for consoles... even all consoles combined. So I think tor_greg is right - the question is really "Can you be a serious gamer WITHOUT using a PC?" and the answer is most definitely "NO".

All of the above is *IMHO*, so don't freak out on me.
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Old 11-11-01, 11:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Feneant

RPG's?? All the console RPG's now are adventure games based in the future and they waste more times on FMV's than the actual games. Take Final Fantasy, they were great until you got the 7-9 which are now basically all just adventure games if you ask me.
Good points, but the only thing I use to differentiate between adventure and rpg is whether you control your character in battle, or just pick commands from a menu. So by that definition, FFVII and beyond are still rpgs. By adventure I was refering to stuff like Zelda or Alundra.



Quote:
Originally posted by Feneant


Problem here is that the screen divides in 4 blocks... that's a no no for playing a fun game. Golden eye was fun, but Goldeneye wasn't fun playing 4 on a 27 inch tv.
I agree, that is one of the reason that I say the PC is far superior for FPS games, that and the keyboard mouse control. I actually hate that control scheme, but I realize it is much more efficient once you get used to it. I've just never had the desire to learn, as I don't play games on my PC and don't really care for FPS games.


To address further arguments by others, what system you play, be it a console, pc or a combination of the above doesn't make you as serious gamer, your passion for gaming does.

PC games just don't really interest me. FPS, Strategy and Online games, as I stated above, are the only genres in which PC's clearly excel over consoles, and I don't care for any of those genres. In all the other genres consoles are either equal to pc's or better IMO. Plus consoles are more cost effective, assuming you don't feel a need to buy everyone on the market. I know I can by my Gamecube and Nintendo will support it for 5+ years. The N64 didn't do very well and they supported it for that long. With PC's, the technology advances so quickly that you have to upgrade somepart of your computer at least every couple years if you want to play the new games at the optimal setting.

As for the online thing, I despise online games. I think consoles are much better for multiplayer games. I want to play with group of my friends in the same room, not with a bunch of people I don't know over the internet. Even if you play with friends, it isn't the same as being in the same room with them.

Lastly, I hate playing on a 17" monitor. I don't care about the extra resolution. I want the extra size of my 27" Wega. Plus you could get an even bigger TV. Sure you can get a monitor bigger than 17", but the are outrageously expensive for a decent one.

So basically, consoles have the advantage in the genre's I play the most, I don't like online games, I hate the expense of upgrading, and I hate playing on small monitor vs. a TV as I don't care about resolution. I don't think that keeps me from being a "serious" gamer, nor do I think someone who only plays PC games isn't a "serious" gamer. Al l that matters is you love games, and play them on the platforms that appeal to you most. The fact is that most people can't afford to keep up with games on both pc's and consoles.
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Old 11-12-01, 03:00 AM   #17
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Anyone who's played FPS'ers online can account.. its easy to be a gamer if you just play PC. CS is the shyte!!

AvP2 IS VERY NICE


can't wait till return to castle wolfenstien.
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Old 11-12-01, 07:49 AM   #18
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Yes!

There are few games for any console that have the depth or immersion of PC games.

Consoles are good for fighting, driving and sports.

For roleplaying, MMORPG's, strategy games, PC's still are better.
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Old 11-12-01, 11:36 AM   #19
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To each, his/her own. I agree with Static Cling, it depends on what kind of games you like to play. I personally use both the PC and consoles for games.

Quote:
Originally posted by joshhinkle
Lastly, I hate playing on a 17" monitor. I don't care about the extra resolution. I want the extra size of my 27" Wega. Plus you could get an even bigger TV. Sure you can get a monitor bigger than 17", but the are outrageously expensive for a decent one.
Actually, most hard-core PC Gamers will have a high-end graphics card, like a GeForce 2 or 3. Many of the latest video cards have video outputs, including HDTV outputs.

After reading your responses, I realize that in your personal case, you wouldn't want to bother with installing and configuring such a card; I'm just pointing out that it's possible to play from your PC on a nice big TV if you desire to put your PC near the TV, like mine is.
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Old 11-15-01, 12:59 AM   #20
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I agree with everything Trigger says.

Consoles are basically computers that are outdated when they hit the market. However, they are easy to use because they are all the same. They're also more profitable too, because kids use them a lot... and gaming is still considered a kid thing for many people. (This is actually a disadvantage, sometimes language and stuff is removed from consoles because they know parents are more likely to complain. Nudity was removed from Unreal Tournament for this reason, even though the game has an M rating.)

I don't know much about the PS systems, but when N64 came out, I just saw it a a total joke. It was good grpahic wise for a while, but the average PC has been beating it for 4 years now... and Nintendo just reissued the same graphics engine over and over and over again. Golden Eye was good, Perfect Dark was really just an inhanced version of it. MArio 64 was good, but every single other game after it was basically the samne damn thing with the same damn engine. I mean, I got sick of it.

I'm never going to buy another console again. They're outdated in a few months... my PC from 1997 can still play Max Payne fine (with resolution turned down, of course.) While my new computer can play it perfectly. As well as tons of other games that waste anything I've ever tried on any other system. There's just more freedom on a PC. Anyone, and I mean anyone, who hasn't tried PC gaming is really really missing out. Go try some games, just make sure you can run them on your system.

What's an X-Box? it's an outdated PC. Why would I buy an outdated PC I couldn't upgrade? Oh yeah, exclusive games. That's marketing BS by Microsoft.

It's all about what you want. If you want something simple that will have little problems, then go with a console, just be aware you're missing out a lot of things on PC. It's easy, you buy a game, it works.

If you want the best technology, the best graphics, and the freest games, go with a PC. Just realise sometimes you're going to run into some problems because there are so many types of PCs and games can run differently on each. In the PC world, part makers compete with each other to make the best parts. As a result, you get better parts, and get better technology for games. Consoles catch up with this tech next time there's a new generation...

I'm not going to get into the HUGE mod community of PC games though. Most popular games now have new content daily because fans can make it... and you can download it for free.

I know I will pick a PC always.
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Old 11-15-01, 03:16 AM   #21
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Lets just put it this way... GL QUAKE came out roughly the same time as PSX did.. Look at the graphic difference




Consoles are fun.. but nothing can beat a PC game.

and now with a G3 graphics card and 1.4 gig cant wait for future FPS.


Updating is nothing big compared to updating console systems.

both have there benefits. but PC is the ultimate Gamers zone.

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Old 11-15-01, 03:59 AM   #22
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A few drawbacks to PC gaming, in my mind.
- Storage medium. Too many things try to cram onto one CD (or multiple CDs, which is a little better) because in their minds too many peopel don't have DVD drives on their computers. This will be fixed eventually, like the transition from multiple floppies to CDs did, but its jsut taking too long in my mind.

- Multiplayer gaming can be worse. Not for all things (FPS come to mind), but for many things. Would a game like Mario Party be fun at all on PC? Nope. No none in the same room to talk trash to, drink beer with, BS with etc. With consoles beginning to have online play, the gap is widening significantly too, since now consoles can have the mass multiplayer games that used to be exclusive to PCs.

- Comfort. Sitting on the couch beats sitting in front of a desk any day. Yeah you can hook a computer up to a TV and get a wireless keyboard & mouse, but it just doesn't translate to NTSC and PAL resolution very well. I'm assuming this would be a lot better when HDTVs become the norm (although we're a LONG way off from that), but I can't be sure of that since I don't have one.

- Less (if any) online cheating for consoles. That is, if the game is a console exclusive. Anyone who has played CS or UT know how much those games have been ruined by cheaters.

PCs have advantages too, though, as mentioned by others.
- Upgradability is counteracted a bit by cost, but is still a huge advantage.

- Mice control rocks for many games. Keyboard is very nice too. Consoles with USB can support these, but the advantage is still clearly for PCs.

- Resolution. NTSC is suckekeke nowadays. HDTV is a long way from becoming the norm. Big advantage for PCs.


My ideal setup would be a nice computer hooked up to an HDTV, with Nintendo and Rare making games for it. That last part will never happen, though, so I'll stick with a computer for most games and the latest Nintendo console for Nintendo and Rare games. When I get an HDTV, I'll definitely look into moving my computer out to my living room and getting a wireless keyboard and mouse. [Homer]Mmmm technology[/Homer]
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Old 11-15-01, 05:21 AM   #23
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Quote:
A few drawbacks to PC gaming, in my mind.
- Storage medium. Too many things try to cram onto one CD (or multiple CDs, which is a little better) because in their minds too many peopel don't have DVD drives on their computers. This will be fixed eventually, like the transition from multiple floppies to CDs did, but its jsut taking too long in my mind.
Hmm, yes, I agree. I've noticed in Europe it isn't so bad, they have some games on DVD there.

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- Multiplayer gaming can be worse. Not for all things (FPS come to mind), but for many things. Would a game like Mario Party be fun at all on PC? Nope. No none in the same room to talk trash to, drink beer with, BS with etc. With consoles beginning to have online play, the gap is widening significantly too, since now consoles can have the mass multiplayer games that used to be exclusive to PCs.
I think this is kind of an excuse for a not as good game. No fun unless you have someone to talk with? well I can hook some PCS up together and we can all play. It's a riot. Plus it's fun when I'm just playing online.

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- Comfort. Sitting on the couch beats sitting in front of a desk any day. Yeah you can hook a computer up to a TV and get a wireless keyboard & mouse, but it just doesn't translate to NTSC and PAL resolution very well. I'm assuming this would be a lot better when HDTVs become the norm (although we're a LONG way off from that), but I can't be sure of that since I don't have one.
Hmmm, I'd get a comfy chair myself the only thing you might have trouble with is a mouse then.

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- Less (if any) online cheating for consoles. That is, if the game is a console exclusive. Anyone who has played CS or UT know how much those games have been ruined by cheaters.
Ah, yes, a good point. Online cheating is a huge problem. Sick ****s who get pleasure out of cheating and ruining everyone's fun. However, without the ability to alter the game, we'd have no mods. We'd have no counter strike.. heh. Also, from my experiance, it is possible to set up a server so it'll only recognize a certain copy of the game, meaning anything changed or patched on, will not be allowed on the server. I've seen this work on a few games... I think with some work it could work on all of them.

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PCs have advantages too, though, as mentioned by others.
- Upgradability is counteracted a bit by cost, but is still a huge advantage.
Very true. You also can, if you don't want to, not upgrade much, and still play games that are new and popular. Not all of them, but a lot. Red Alert 2 has terribly low requirments, as does Diablo 2, and Sims. Max Payne has high, but on low detail, I can still play it on my p166! The choice is yours!

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- Mice control rocks for many games. Keyboard is very nice too. Consoles with USB can support these, but the advantage is still clearly for PCs.
Yes, I agree here as well. Consoles are still traditionally control pad.. and so even though there's usb support now, the games will be tailored to a control pad...

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- Resolution. NTSC is suckekeke nowadays. HDTV is a long way from becoming the norm. Big advantage for PCs.
Yes, certain games are just impossible in low resolutions. The rest just look 100 times worse down there :P
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Old 11-15-01, 06:30 AM   #24
Trigger
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Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 23,459
Quote:
Originally posted by BizRodian
I agree with everything Trigger says.
I don't see this very often.

Quote:
Originally posted by juiio
A few drawbacks to PC gaming, in my mind.
- Storage medium. Too many things try to cram onto one CD (or multiple CDs, which is a little better) because in their minds too many peopel don't have DVD drives on their computers. This will be fixed eventually, like the transition from multiple floppies to CDs did, but its jsut taking too long in my mind.
Well - many console games span a few CDs. In fact - with a PC, files are compressed on the CD and are decompressed when they are installed on your PC. I don't think this has ever been a problem. I mean - I've had old games like Phantasmagoria span 7 discs but that was because they used an old technology for the movie parts and there was no compression. These days, they can fit most games nicely on one CD. It's rare these days to get a game that takes up more than one CD. The reason they don't make games on DVD is because there aren't many games that are large enough to require it. Even so - I guess I really don't see how this is a drawback for PCs? Consoles have no choice but to span several discs if the game requires it because they don't have the same compression options.

Quote:
Originally posted by juiio
- Multiplayer gaming can be worse. Not for all things (FPS come to mind), but for many things. Would a game like Mario Party be fun at all on PC? Nope. No none in the same room to talk trash to, drink beer with, BS with etc. With consoles beginning to have online play, the gap is widening significantly too, since now consoles can have the mass multiplayer games that used to be exclusive to PCs.
This is simply not true. Multiplayer gaming is tons of fun online and even using your point about a few friends drinking beer and playing in front of a TV playing mario kart, there's always Lan gaming. Just have your friends pack up their PC and bring em over to network them together and frag each other in the same room. That's a blast and it's not as much of a pain in the arse as it sounds. True though that with a multiplayer console game, all you have to do is fire it up - but I still maintain that PC Lan games wipe the floor with console multiplayer games. Trying to follow what's going on in my 1/4 of the TV is more of a pain than setting up a network is my feeling about it. Besides - I have 4 PCs that I can network together for a Lan so all I need to do is have my friends come over and it's a party. Not only that - but we can have a LAN as well as share an internet connection so we can all go on and frag with other people.

Quote:
Originally posted by juiio
- Comfort. Sitting on the couch beats sitting in front of a desk any day. Yeah you can hook a computer up to a TV and get a wireless keyboard & mouse, but it just doesn't translate to NTSC and PAL resolution very well. I'm assuming this would be a lot better when HDTVs become the norm (although we're a LONG way off from that), but I can't be sure of that since I don't have one.
Well I have a 21" monitor and it's not far from my bed... My bed is close enough that I can pull the mouse and keyboard over and play from the comfort of me bed... but you do have a point that playing games in front of the TV on the couch has its advantages.

Quote:
Originally posted by juiio
- Less (if any) online cheating for consoles. That is, if the game is a console exclusive. Anyone who has played CS or UT know how much those games have been ruined by cheaters.
Well cheating online with consoles isn't done, but there's also not nearly as many people online with a console... if you go to a server with cheaters on it on your PC, you can go to another one. CS has anti-cheat features that some servers can employ. Even if there are a few cheaters that can get around that - they are usually really poor players anyway and I usually own them too. But that's me... people who aren't as good will find it frustrating. For every game like CS where there are cheats people can use, there's about 5 other online games that don't have online cheaters.

Quote:
Originally posted by juiio
PCs have advantages too, though, as mentioned by others.
- Upgradability is counteracted a bit by cost, but is still a huge advantage.
Someone buys a PC in 99 for 1500 bucks - today it's getting kinda sluggish... They can either drop 80 bucks for a new video card and still compete with the best of them or they can drop 400 bucks and upgrade their machine to near top of the line with a sweet video card, more ram and maybe a new processor and motherboard. To upgrade your console, you have to buy a new one - and (except for the PS and PS2) that also means buying new games as well whereas buying a new PC or spending money to upgrade doesn't mean it won't play the games you already have.

Quote:
Originally posted by juiio
- Mice control rocks for many games. Keyboard is very nice too. Consoles with USB can support these, but the advantage is still clearly for PCs.
exactly... and on top of that - PCs have twenty times as many choices for game controllers than any console system... in fact - most of them are even more ergonomic than standard console controllers which are often designed for smaller hands (Dreamcast) or else mutant hands (N64) and they even have controllers that are exactly the same as certain consoles (PS). I've never seen anyone use a keyboard and mouse for a console game... but I imagine the support is limited. With PCs there are no limits.

Quote:
Originally posted by juiio
- Resolution. NTSC is suckekeke nowadays. HDTV is a long way from becoming the norm. Big advantage for PCs.
Huge... HDTV isn't that far away from being the norm. You'll see... but even so - a PC monitor will still have far superior resolution to any HDTV.

Quote:
Originally posted by juiio
My ideal setup would be a nice computer hooked up to an HDTV, with Nintendo and Rare making games for it. That last part will never happen, though, so I'll stick with a computer for most games and the latest Nintendo console for Nintendo and Rare games. When I get an HDTV, I'll definitely look into moving my computer out to my living room and getting a wireless keyboard and mouse. [Homer]Mmmm technology[/Homer]
Well as for Nintendo and Rare games on your PC - there's always emulators... not that I condone this and I'm not telling you how - but there's a way to play pretty much ANY console game on a PC these days - and if it's a new game, all you have to do is wait a little. N64 emulation is really big and now that the Gamecube is a CD based medium - it won't be too long before that stuff ends up on PC as well. As for moving your PC to your living room - that sounds like a plan.
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Old 11-15-01, 01:14 PM   #25
Jeremy517
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Newberg, OR
Posts: 16,693
Quote:
Originally posted by Trigger

Well - many console games span a few CDs. In fact - with a PC, files are compressed on the CD and are decompressed when they are installed on your PC. I don't think this has ever been a problem. I mean - I've had old games like Phantasmagoria span 7 discs but that was because they used an old technology for the movie parts and there was no compression. These days, they can fit most games nicely on one CD. It's rare these days to get a game that takes up more than one CD. The reason they don't make games on DVD is because there aren't many games that are large enough to require it. Even so - I guess I really don't see how this is a drawback for PCs? Consoles have no choice but to span several discs if the game requires it because they don't have the same compression options.
Consoles used to span multiple CDs. Of the three top console choices, two are DVD based, one is mini-DVD based. That means the 2 to 4 gigs of space minimum. PC games are still at CDs because companies don't want to exclude all the PC people who don't have a DVD drive. Multiple CDs is a hastle, but liveable. How about companies that don't want to span multiple CDs yet want all the space they can get? This certainly happens. CDs are constrictive for some companies. DVDs for the most part aren't. Hence, drawback to PC gaming. Not a big one (and eventually it will fade to 0 as the transition to DVDs continues, but one nonetheless.

Quote:
Originally posted by Trigger

This is simply not true. Multiplayer gaming is tons of fun online and even using your point about a few friends drinking beer and playing in front of a TV playing mario kart, there's always Lan gaming. Just have your friends pack up their PC and bring em over to network them together and frag each other in the same room. That's a blast and it's not as much of a pain in the arse as it sounds. True though that with a multiplayer console game, all you have to do is fire it up - but I still maintain that PC Lan games wipe the floor with console multiplayer games. Trying to follow what's going on in my 1/4 of the TV is more of a pain than setting up a network is my feeling about it. Besides - I have 4 PCs that I can network together for a Lan so all I need to do is have my friends come over and it's a party. Not only that - but we can have a LAN as well as share an internet connection so we can all go on and frag with other people.
LAN parties aren't an option for most people and even if its an option, its not practical most of hte time. Come home from the movies or the bars, etc and want to play some games. "OK let me go home and get my PC then come back, set it up, then we can play". Nahhh. Horrid.

Split screen doesn't come up in a lot console multiplayer games (except FPS, which is why in my original post I said with the exception of FPSs). Many games, its full screen with all players on the screen at once. Fighting games, sports games, etc.

Quote:
Originally posted by Trigger

Well cheating online with consoles isn't done, but there's also not nearly as many people online with a console... if you go to a server with cheaters on it on your PC, you can go to another one. CS has anti-cheat features that some servers can employ. Even if there are a few cheaters that can get around that - they are usually really poor players anyway and I usually own them too. But that's me... people who aren't as good will find it frustrating. For every game like CS where there are cheats people can use, there's about 5 other online games that don't have online cheaters.
CS anticheat "Features" are a joke. Punkbuster? That crap was hacked as fast as CS was (oh and PB stopped updating for CS). Switch to another server? Bleh hastle to me to keep looking for servers with no cheaters, especially with the number of cheaters out there. Cheating isn't prevalent in console gaming because of the number of people. Cheating isn't prevalent because its next to impossible to do. You can't run other processes. You can't hack executables. You can't hack drivers.

Quote:
Originally posted by Trigger

Someone buys a PC in 99 for 1500 bucks - today it's getting kinda sluggish... They can either drop 80 bucks for a new video card and still compete with the best of them or they can drop 400 bucks and upgrade their machine to near top of the line with a sweet video card, more ram and maybe a new processor and motherboard. To upgrade your console, you have to buy a new one - and (except for the PS and PS2) that also means buying new games as well whereas buying a new PC or spending money to upgrade doesn't mean it won't play the games you already have.
If you're spending 80 dollars on a video card, you're already buying a card that is a few years old. Yes you have to buy new games for your new console, but its not like you STOPPED buying new games for your PC. You keep buying games for whichever you use, so that is irrelevant. But like I said, upgradability is stilll a big advantage for PCs.

Quote:
Originally posted by Trigger

Well as for Nintendo and Rare games on your PC - there's always emulators... not that I condone this and I'm not telling you how - but there's a way to play pretty much ANY console game on a PC these days - and if it's a new game, all you have to do is wait a little. N64 emulation is really big and now that the Gamecube is a CD based medium - it won't be too long before that stuff ends up on PC as well.
I know all about emulators. I write emulators. I've been writing emulators for years. N64 emulation is still crap. Unplayable on many games. Garbage playing on most others. Its a ways off from being good. With more and more specialized (and undocumented) hardware in consoles, the chance of emulating that system drops dramatically. If you seriously think you'll see a decent gamecube or PS2 emulator in the next 10 years, I've got a bridge to sell you.

juiio
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