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Old 06-13-13, 04:30 PM   #1
Josh-da-man
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More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

Will Doctor Who have a very special surprise for us in November?

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We were promised lots for the 50th Anniversary of Doctor Who. But half a season made last year, a one off special and the Christmas special have left some fans annoyed, disappointed and wanting more.

Well, there’s a big rumour that they are getting it.

And no, not just the Adventure In Time And Space making-of-the-first-episode drama. Nor the 50th Anniversary Convention. Nor the 50th Anniversary party hats.

At least I think there will be hats. There should be hats.

I’ve been hearing chatter about this particular rumour for some time. But it’s started to coalesce a little recently so I now feel more comfortable at least reporting on the rumour. I’m still missing anything remotely resembling proper details, such as a conformation from an official source, but still.

And the rumour is that we may be getting a whole host of Doctor Who episodes.

Not new ones, but episodes not seen anywhere since they were first broadcast.

We all know that through a series of cock ups, incompetence and lack of forethought, swathes of episodes of Doctor Who from the sixties were wiped by the BBC. Some episodes were found again, some were sold to other countries, some kept in people’s loft space, but over a hundred episodes of the show were missing, along with episodes, entire series even, of many other BBC shows.

What I’ve been hearing, and some of it is attributed to an eccentric engineer who worked for broadcasters across Africa with a taste for science fiction and a habit of taking things for “safe keeping”, is that the BBC have secured a large number of presumed-wiped episodes of early Doctor Who.

And there are lots. Lots and lots. Completed serials that we’ve only had incomplete before, full series that nothing existed of. Not everything. But heaps and heaps. Possibly even The Full Hartnell.

And come November, or before, we’ll get to see them.

Now promises of this kind have been made many times before. Sometimes they’ve come true, sometimes they have now. But I’m told to expect, among others, a full Evil Of The Daleks from 1967. Up till now, the BBC only had the second of seven episodes, after that film was found in a car boot sale.

There’s even the rumour that the much touted DVD set Regenerations out this month, with its previewed animation clip of the regeneration between the first and second Doctors is a bluff, and they now have the full The Tenth Planet in which the Doctor regenerated for the first time which will be released in this set. But that strikes me as wish-fulfillment too far. Would be very clever though.

I’m going to cross my fingers for the next five months. You just never know.

UPDATE: Shortly after posting, I received further confirmation of the details listed above from another, better connected source. I don’t think I need to cross my fingers quite so hard any more.
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Old 06-13-13, 05:46 PM   #2
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

That is terrific.
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Old 06-13-13, 06:00 PM   #3
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

Hoping the rumor is true. But these type of stories have cropped up quite a few times over the years (tho not as big as this supposed haul). There's been stories of people who knew people who worked at a studio that had a missing episode or two in their possession. Or someone who claims to have picked up an episode at a yard sale. When the BBC starts to investigate, the person either disappears or wants money to return the episode. When asked for proof, they vanish like a fart in the wind.

I'll believe it when I see it. But my fingers crossed.
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Old 06-13-13, 06:50 PM   #4
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

I've been reading Rich Johnston since the mid-late 90s, back when he was on usenet. He's been doing the rumor-mongering thing for a long time. I don't think he would have posted this if he didn't think there was a certain amount of veracity to the rumor. It's one thing to post casting rumors, which is sort of fun while you're waiting for an official announcement, and another to be a big cocktease about stuff like this.

Looks like he was already wrong about the rumor of the complete "Tenth Planet" being included on the "Regenerations" DVD set, but he also says it sounds like "wish fulfillment."

Speaking of the "Regenerations" set, it follows a certain amount of logic that they would make the release of "Tenth Planet" (with its restored animated episode) an exclusive in the set instead of giving it a separate release if they know that the complete story is out there as a way to recoup costs on the now redundant animated episode...
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Old 06-13-13, 08:40 PM   #5
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

As the rumor grows, it seems to have started on the Outpost Skaro forum. There was a rumored report that the BBC has found a "large cache of TV episodes that contain some Doctor Who episodes." That quickly became "The BBC has found a large cache of missing Doctor Who episodes."

There's another rumor that states that the large cache did contain Doctor Who episodes but nothing the BBC didn't already have in their archives.

Fingers still crossed.
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Old 06-13-13, 09:00 PM   #6
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

I was just thinking about these missing episodes yesterday when I read about the BBC's recent abandonment of a project that was to digitalize BBC productions. I believe it included both moving existing productions to a 100% digital workflow and also encoding all archive material to digital formats. They spent 100 million pounds over the last 5 years, but it had progressed so poorly that it was recently determined any more funding would just be throwing good money after bad.
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Old 06-13-13, 09:09 PM   #7
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

Cool. Hope some of these are Tennant stories.
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Old 06-14-13, 09:06 AM   #8
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

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Cool. Hope some of these are Tennant stories.
Personally I'm hoping for the last McGann story (the one where he regenerates into John Hurt). It was believed lost in the 2003 BBC warehouse fire.
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Old 06-17-13, 01:06 PM   #9
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

Bleeding Cool on it's own rumor:

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More On Those Missing Doctor Who Episodes... Or Less

Today I feel I have entered into, however briefly, a Doctor Who cabal made up of superfans, Doctor Who writers past and present, producers, managers and executive types. And then been kicked to the kerb.

A few months ago, I came across rumours that there were a huge amount of the missing Doctor Who episodes about to be returned to the BBC. Then I heard it again. And then I heard it from someone who really should know one way or another. So last week, I ran the rumours on Bleeding Cool, stating that's exactly what they were.

And all hell broke loose. Some were confirming the stories, some were denying it. But what was clear was that I'd broken the dam on a huge pent up amount of hope, fear and despair that had remained on message boards, in pub meetups, some behind private member forums and firewalls since late last year.

I'm now going to give you more details on the rumoured missing episodes that are reported to have been found.

Of the one hundred and six missing episodes, they comprise ninety of them. The only ones not included are nine episodes of The Dalek Master Plan, plus Mission To The Unknown, two episodes of The Invasion, two episodes of The Ice Warriors, and two episodes of The Wheel In Space.

So that's not quite The Full Hartnell, but it's pretty close. And that's an awful lot more Troughton than I was expecting.

And that the BBC have been negotiating their safe return. That Steven Moffat, Russell T Davies, Mark Gatiss, Caroline Skinner, all the main players, the Cardiff production office, Doctor Who Magazine are aware of what's happening.

But this is bigger than Doctor Who. This is eight thousand recovered films including the likes of missing Dad's Army, Out Of The Unknown, Morecambe And Wise, The Sky At Night and more. Including ninety missing Doctor Who films and potentially better quality prints of already recovered shows. Such as three separate sets of Doctor Who: Marco Polo - one poor quality, two in excellent nick.

And I was told, an by a member of the cloth, no less, that at a convention a few weeks ago, ex-Who producer Andrew Cartmel told a small group of 15-20 people in Atlanta to expect news about returned episodes very soon. Though now he tweets:

@DreadSinister Sorry, I don't have any special knowledge about this. I hope they find all of them, though.
? Andrew Cartmel (@andrewcartmel) June 15, 2013

But - and here is where it goes all sour - there is an increasing belief by people involved in this that it is a massive hoax perpetrated against the BBC, by a man playing up his own eccentricities for negotiation purposes, but at no point giving any real evidence that he had copies of the episodes in question.

And that huge amounts of time, effort and money have been spent on something that just isn't there. That so many senior people were conned, partly through offering them wish fulfilment, partly by them not wanting to give up the hope that these episodes could exist somewhere.

And with that knowledge ringing in my ears, I was kicked out of the TARDIS, deposited on Earth in the 21st century and was left, with Vworp Vworp ringing in my ears. Now I know how Tegan felt.

All I'm left is with ex-Who script consultant and a man responsible for us having as many episodes as we do, Ian Levine, tweeting:

"There will always be 106 Doctor Who episodes missing". And yes you can quote me on that.

? Ian Levine (@IanLevine) June 15, 2013

My previous tweet was not ironic. I too wanted to believe ninety episodes had been found. I now believe none have been found. A massive hoax

? Ian Levine (@IanLevine) June 15, 2013

I can't give up like that however. For a start, those episodes were transmitted fifty years ago. However faint, distorted and diluted, those signals have travelled fifty light years from Earth now, passing all manner of solar systems. One of them may host sentient life with interstellar flight technology, and may have the skills to capture and enhance those signals. And a spacecraft might be currently heading towards us ready to drop them off.

I mean, any contact with an alien race would be amazing. But even more so if they brought back old episodes of Doctor Who with them, yes?

Bleeding Cool reports rumours and news. These are most definitely rumours, but they come from the kind of people who should have some inkling as to their truth or not.

But they, like us, all want to believe...
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Old 06-17-13, 01:41 PM   #10
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

So... it was some elaborate hoax?
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Old 06-17-13, 02:16 PM   #11
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

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Originally Posted by mcfly View Post
So... it was some elaborate hoax?
Yep, looking that way.
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Old 06-17-13, 07:29 PM   #12
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

Found this on Wikipedia. Right now, these are only scheduled for region 2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_...ssing_episodes
"On 15 February 2013, it was announced that Planet 55 would be used again to provide an animated version of Episode 4 of The Tenth Planet; the release date has been confirmed as 18 November 2013.[60] [61] It was then announced on 27 February that episodes 2 and 3 of The Ice Warriors would be animated by Qurios Entertainment for a 26 August 2013 DVD release.[62] In April it was announced that episodes 1 and 3 of The Moonbase would be animated by Planet 55 for release on 21 October 2013.[63] As of 2013, each DVD release is budgeted to allow for the reconstruction of up to 2 episodes using animation.[64] The release of The Moonbase means that currently the only remaining serials that can have their missing episodes reconstructed under the current budgetary arrangements are The Crusade, "Mission to the Unknown", and The Underwater Menace."
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Old 06-17-13, 07:55 PM   #13
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

They've been announced for the US (Region 1) as well along with Scream of the Shalka. No release dates as of yet. Should get official dates during the summer.


We have a Doctor Who DVD Thread in the DVD Talk forum where we keep up to date with all the releases. Sometimes.
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Old 06-17-13, 08:54 PM   #14
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

I told this story to a good friend that's a huge fan of the original Who and he was so excited for about 15 seconds until I got to the "but it was all a hoax" part.
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Old 06-17-13, 09:16 PM   #15
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

Seriously, I would almost die for "lots of recovered episodes". Still remember the day in 1992 I walked into the local Sci-Fi bookstore and saw the newest Doctor Who magazine on the shelf touting the complete return of Tomb of the Cybermen. I jumped up and down with joy right there. The wait from that day till the VHS release came out was excruciating, but well worth it.

I still believe that there are some missing episodes that have been secretly hoarded and not returned. There is a cachet of serious fans out there who have them and are keeping it to themselves (including Tenth Planet part 4). Just my conspiracy theory. And I specifically wrote Tenth Planet 4 because I recall reading that that is the episode many claimed to have seen in the early 90s, and then was all hush about it and wouldn't reveal where.

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Old 06-19-13, 12:01 PM   #16
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

More from Bleeding cool, this is getting interesting:

Quote:

Last week, Bleeding Cool ran this article, reporting rumours rampaging around the highest echelons of the BBC that a lot of missing episodes of Doctor Who had been found, and were planning to be released later this year.

We then ran a couple of follow ups, detailing and clarifying which episodes these were meant to be, that it was part of a much wider cache of BBC films that had been recovered, citing names of BBC and Who-related individuals who had been discussing the rumours, as well as those who poured doubt on the story. Some saw that as us backtracking on the original story, which I don't accept. We were always reporting these rumours as exactly that - rumours. Just ones being discussed at the highest level, behind closed doors.

Tonight one of the naysayers, archivist Ian Levine, who had previously tweeted;
Look,I DO believe no episodes have been found,based on what certain people told me at the BFI. But I suppose they could have lied to my face

? Ian Levine (@IanLevine) June 17, 2013
Is now tweeting;
I am so fucking speechless, I have no idea how I am going to sleep tonight. I was utterly wrong, but I was lied to, yes barefaced lied to. ? Ian Levine (@IanLevine) June 18, 2013
I have just seen "three tons" of evidence that tells me it's all true. Saying no more. Apart from I now believe it again. ? Ian Levine (@IanLevine) June 18, 2013
@keefybabe I've just been given proof that backs up the entire story,from 2011. So yes I now really believe he has found 90 missing episodes

? Ian Levine (@IanLevine) June 18, 2013
And why? Well, he's probably talking about this;

There are details online of a shipment to archivist Philip Morris, who has traveled Africa and beyond looking for all sorts of missing footage. Someone who, after appearing on a 2009 BBC Radio 4 show about the recovery of Doctor Who missing episodes, an angry Ian Levine commented "he has never found ONE SINGLE EPISODE in his entire life."

Well, maybe he has. From late 2011, a shipment listing 3 tons of film material arriving from Lagos to Liverpool... click on "Carrying" to read it.



And Liverpool? That also rang a bell, considering this post from early 2011.
I work at a regional branch of a large international logistics company. On Tuesday morning a customer called in to collect a box sent from Zambia via Nigeria containing BBC tapes and 16" films, supposedly for returning to the archives. The guy apparently said (I didn't serve him myself) that the box contained recovered 60s material including episodes of Doctor Who (the only programme he mentioned by name, it seems) and that we'd be hearing all about it before the end of the year. Naturally I was keenly excited, particularly given that this seemed to suggest a major find, but, having encountered neither box nor customer myself, I couldn't pursue the matter directly. I've checked the paperwork but I can't fathom why BBC archive stuff would be addressed to a Merseyside address, especially one where the company name given doesn't match the stated premises or postcode (hence why we couldn't deliver the box and the customer had to fetch it himself). Then again, the shipper may have just cocked up the address slightly, it's all perfectly kosher and I'm just fretting inappropriately. After all, the customer did say all would be revealed in time.
All conjecture and circumstantial evidence of course. And it may signify nothing. I am not a Doctor Who or a BBC insider, by any stretch of the word. It's just that, as a result of this job, I've ended up knowing a very few people who are.

In my twenty-odd years of doing this job, albeit it mostly concentrated on the comics industry, my aim has been to try and lift the curtain and give other fans a peek behind the scenes. To let them be party to conversations, rumours, gossip being passed around by those who are on the inside. Which is what I did.

For facts, actual facts, facts you can rely on, as I said in the original post, we'll have to wait and see.

It may be nothing. It may be everything. Bar sixteen episodes.

Until then, enjoy what we have...

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Old 06-19-13, 01:30 PM   #17
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

Umm...that was posted 2 says earlier up thread.
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Old 06-19-13, 01:39 PM   #18
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

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Umm...that was posted 2 says earlier up thread.
No it wasn't. The article he quotes has tweets from yesterday.
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Old 06-19-13, 08:57 PM   #19
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

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Originally Posted by Autotelik View Post
I still believe that there are some missing episodes that have been secretly hoarded and not returned. There is a cachet of serious fans out there who have them and are keeping it to themselves (including Tenth Planet part 4). Just my conspiracy theory. And I specifically wrote Tenth Planet 4 because I recall reading that that is the episode many claimed to have seen in the early 90s, and then was all hush about it and wouldn't reveal where.
Where have they claimed to seen it?
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Old 06-19-13, 10:23 PM   #20
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

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Where have they claimed to seen it?
Can't remember specifically but I think it was private screenings by someone who owned the print. Read it in some old Who magazines, or some of the older anniversary books like 25 Glorious Years, which are all buried in my garage somewhere.

Rumors like this are always exciting, but after all the extensive searches that fans and collectors have done since the 1980s, I am going to guess that a huge recovery like this is extremely unlikely. I would like to be proved wrong, however.
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Old 06-19-13, 11:21 PM   #21
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

Finally made my way over to Gallifrey Base to see what was up with this. Crazy. Over 4000 posts there on the rumors. Quite a few people are convinced there is some truth to this. Compared to all the hoaxes over the years about the missing episodes, this looks like the most elaborate, or..... it could be true.

And then today, the BBC had to come out to release a statement about the rumors, but did it in a fashion that did not seem convincing at all.... to me it sounds more like a "no comment" than a "no it isn't true". Who knows, maybe they are keeping this under wraps until Nov 23, 2013. If it is really true, I think all of Who fandom would totally implode. This would be bigger news than the new series almost 10 yrs ago.



Quote:
The escalation of internet speculation over the potential discovery/recovery of Doctor Who episodes currently missing from the BBC archive has led the corporation to issue a statement about it.

Philip Fleming, the Head of Communications, Brands, Content & Digital at BBC Worldwide, said: There are always rumours and speculation about Doctor Who missing episodes being discovered. However, we cannot confirm any new finds.
He was responding to reports of a large number of episodes having been found in Africa.

Radio Times subsequently queried what exactly the BBC meant by saying that it could not confirm any new finds, to which a BBC spokeswoman said: "We can't confirm because it's not true as far as I'm aware." Pressed further about whether or not the BBC was in talks with people about episodes, she said: "I don’t think so", while to the question "So there are no episodes?" she responded: "Not as far as we know."

Following the discoveries of the Galaxy 4 episode Air Lock and The Underwater Menace episode 2 in 2011, hopes have been high in fandom that more missing episodes are out there, and Doctor Who News will continue its policy of reporting only on official statements.
Compiled by:
The Doctor Who News team

Last edited by Autotelik; 06-19-13 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 06-20-13, 01:22 AM   #22
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

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Originally Posted by Autotelik View Post
Finally made my way over to Gallifrey Base to see what was up with this. Crazy. Over 4000 posts there on the rumors. Quite a few people are convinced there is some truth to this. Compared to all the hoaxes over the years about the missing episodes, this looks like the most elaborate, or..... it could be true.

And then today, the BBC had to come out to release a statement about the rumors, but did it in a fashion that did not seem convincing at all.... to me it sounds more like a "no comment" than a "no it isn't true". Who knows, maybe they are keeping this under wraps until Nov 23, 2013. If it is really true, I think all of Who fandom would totally implode. This would be bigger news than the new series almost 10 yrs ago.
I really don't know what to think.

Either something is really happening, or everyone is just circle-jerking the same rumor around, claiming that rumors they've been hearing are inside information.

The official BBC statement did come off more like a "no comment" than an actual denial.

It does appear that three tons of "old film" were shipped from Nigeria to Liverpool about two years ago, though we don't know what it contained. Two years seems like a long time, though I don't know how long it would take to catalog and examine all of that.

There are fairly extensive records of what episodes were aired specific African nations, and it seems unlikely that ninety missing episodes would be located in a single cache somewhere, unless someone had been hoarding material. A shipping carton containing three tons of film seems like a lot.
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Old 06-20-13, 02:55 AM   #23
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

I haven't followed much over the years, how long ago was the most recent episode found?
Edit: Nevermind I see it in the post above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
It does appear that three tons of "old film" were shipped from Nigeria to Liverpool about two years ago, though we don't know what it contained. Two years seems like a long time, though I don't know how long it would take to catalog and examine all of that.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting anything along the lines of 90 found episodes, but it wouldn't surprise me that if there were any episodes found in the last few years, they would hold off on the news to do something big for the 50th anniversary.
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Old 06-20-13, 03:30 AM   #24
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

When the last 2 were found back in 2011 (Galaxy 4 and Underwater Menace), they kept that hush for 6 months before confirming it. I wouldn't put it past the BBC to keep something like this under wraps for 2 yrs to time it with the 50th anniversary.
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Old 06-20-13, 12:39 PM   #25
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Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?

And the latest: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/...royed-the-end/

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