Game of Thrones -- "The Old Gods and the New" -- 5/06/12

[KillerCannibal]

Theon is such a wonderful douche. The actor playing him does a great job of conveying the internal conflict in those tough situations. You can tell he doesn't really want to be doing all of this, but he's already started down a road with his people that he can't go back on now. He's such a bitch.

Tyrion always finds a way to own every episode, but no Bronn?

[Noonan]

I agree, the actor playing Theon is doing a spot-on job. He's conveying all the proper emotions.

[aktick]

What's Balon up to anyways? Sitting around at Pyke?

[wishbone]

Not sowing, that's for sure!

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt

Everyone notice Rose Leslie from DOWNTON ABBEY playing Ygritte? Sadly, she's too far north to take her top off.

Damn, I knew I saw her before!

[superdeluxe]

It must have took tremendous willpower on Jon's part to not give into the grinding heh.

[creekdipper]

Originally Posted by Decker

Do not want any book spoilers, please. Within the context of where we are in the TV show, is Arya's dire wolf still alive (as far as we know) and have we seen him since Episode 2 when he attacked Joffrey?

I'm a girl, not a boy!!!

[superdeluxe]

Originally Posted by aktick

What's Balon up to anyways? Sitting around at Pyke?

I don't think the show made it clear..he might be just hanging out..when know yara is doing her thing

[wishbone]

Originally Posted by superdeluxe

It must have took tremendous willpower on Jon's part to not give into the grinding heh.

Nice!

[Groucho]

Originally Posted by KillerCannibal

Theon is such a wonderful douche. The actor playing him does a great job of conveying the internal conflict in those tough situations. You can tell he doesn't really want to be doing all of this, but he's already started down a road with his people that he can't go back on now. He's such a bitch.

It's clear that they cast him in Season 1 with his Season 2 in mind. Which must have been a tough sale for the actor since he essentially had to pay his dues by being a background character in the first season.

[boogieman03]

Originally Posted by wishbone

Grey Wind - Status:  Alive, w/Robb
Ghost - Status:  Alive, w/Jon north of the Wall
Lady - Status:  Dead
Nymeria - Status:  Unknown, chased away by Arya
Summer - Status:  Alive, Winterfell
Shaggy Dog - Status:  Alive, Winterfell

It cracks me up to see a direwolf named "Shaggy Dog".

[superfro]

Originally Posted by Groucho

It's clear that they cast him in Season 1 with his Season 2 in mind. Which must have been a tough sale for the actor since he essentially had to pay his dues by being a background character in the first season.

At least he got more screen time in S1 than Nikolaj Coster-Waldau has thus far in S2! Only 4 eps left and Jamie's been on screen for all of 3 minutes.

[wishbone]

I miss the many exchanges between Varys and Littlefinger in S1.

[ryuhayabu]

Originally Posted by pinata242

This is probably entirely correct, especially with the inclusion of House Serrett at Silverhill. I'm glad my guess "wolves" is actually "west" because it seemed contradictory to have Robb marching both west and south

Did you decipher this yourself or was there another source/effort out there on the internet?

I saw it on reddit.com in a thread about the note in the gameofthrones subreddit. I don't have the link handy (and I don't think I can post links anyway).

[argh923]

Originally Posted by superfro

At least he got more screen time in S1 than Nikolaj Coster-Waldau has thus far in S2! Only 4 eps left and Jamie's been on screen for all of 3 minutes.

Spoiler:

Looks like we'll see him next week, per the preview.

Originally Posted by wishbone

I miss the many exchanges between Varys and Littlefinger in S1.

Me too. I loved that last season...they're two of my favorites.

[smg669]

Originally Posted by Groucho

It's clear that they cast him in Season 1 with his Season 2 in mind. Which must have been a tough sale for the actor since he essentially had to pay his dues by being a background character in the first season.

I don't think it was tough for him. He was in his trailer smoking weed. Wearing a fitted cap.

[zuffy]

Originally Posted by wishbone

I miss the many exchanges between Varys and Littlefinger in S1.

Which side is Varys on anyway? I remember Ned asking him that question and Varys said something about in the interest of the realm? WTF does that mean?

[fumanstan]

He's on whatever side lets him live.

[wishbone]

Lord Varys:  I trust you know you're a dead man, Lord Eddard.
Eddard Stark:  The queen can't kill me. Cat holds her brother.
Lord Varys:  The wrong brother, sadly, and lost to her. Your wife has let the Imp slip through her fingers.
Eddard Stark:  If that's true... then slit my throat and be done with it.
Lord Varys:  Not today, my lord.
[he turns to leave]
Eddard Stark:  Tell me something, Varys. Who do you truly serve?
Lord Varys:  The realm, my lord. Someone must.

Varys understood the game much better than Ned did...

[argh923]

Originally Posted by zuffy

Which side is Varys on anyway? I remember Ned asking him that question and Varys said something about in the interest of the realm? WTF does that mean?

Originally Posted by wishbone

Lord Varys:  I trust you know you're a dead man, Lord Eddard.
Eddard Stark:  The queen can't kill me. Cat holds her brother.
Lord Varys:  The wrong brother, sadly, and lost to her. Your wife has let the Imp slip through her fingers.
Eddard Stark:  If that's true... then slit my throat and be done with it.
Lord Varys:  Not today, my lord.
[he turns to leave]
Eddard Stark:  Tell me something, Varys. Who do you truly serve?
Lord Varys:  The realm, my lord. Someone must.

Varys understood the game much better than Ned did...

As did Littlefinger, Tyrion, and Renly.

RHETORICAL SPECULATION, NOT LOOKING FOR BOOK CONFIRMATION: We still do not know what kind of "agreement" Varys has with the guy from Penthos (Ilyrio, or something like that, his name escapes me...the one who brokered the marage between Khal Drogo and Danerys Targaryen). Watching that scene again, it certainly appeared to me that Varys' "end-game" is seeing Westeros invaded and a Targaryen sitting on the Iron Throne. They haven't followed up in any way, but I think it's something important to remember about Varys.

[Hiro11]

Originally Posted by wishbone

Varys understood the game much better than Ned did...

I remember last year when everyone was complaining that they killed the "hero" of the show when they killed Ned Stark. Yes he was principled and moral, but the man was also a naive fool who bears direct and primary responsibility for the mortal danger he placed his entire family in. For God's sake, Ned you have two kids in the city itself. If you're going to threaten the Queen, at least get them thousands of miles away. What exactly was his plan beyond being principled? To ask Robert to ignore Tywin who was bankrolling the entire kingdom and who's child he had married? To tear the kingdom apart because of incest? Tyrion would have bided his time and played the game, not stomp around threatening people. Because of his actions, Ned's also at least partially responsible for inciting a civil war and, through inaction, allowing a monster to seize the throne. Granted, he was placed in an impossible situation by King Robert when he was asked to be Hand, but he managed to make the absolute worst of a bad situation through being a stiff-necked boy scout.

[Defiant1]

Originally Posted by abrg923

As did Littlefinger, Tyrion, and Renly.

RHETORICAL SPECULATION, NOT LOOKING FOR BOOK CONFIRMATION: We still do not know what kind of "agreement" Varys has with the guy from Penthos (Ilyrio, or something like that, his name escapes me...the one who brokered the marage between Khal Drogo and Danerys Targaryen). Watching that scene again, it certainly appeared to me that Varys' "end-game" is seeing Westeros invaded and a Targaryen sitting on the Iron Throne. They haven't followed up in any way, but I think it's something important to remember about Varys.

Yet he was quite happy to send one of his little birds to kill Dany at Robert's behest back in Season 1. I can't remember if he knew Viserys was dead at this point but if so, House Targaryen would have been extinct if his plan had succeeded.

I don't know what Varys' motives are other than some vague partnership with Ilyrio. I find it all fascinating and it reminds me that I really miss seeing him on screen. I don't think we've seen him since Episode 3 this season?

Originally Posted by Hiro11

I remember last year when everyone was complaining that they killed the "hero" of the show when they killed Ned Stark. Yes he was principled and moral, but the man was also a naive fool who bears direct and primary responsibility for the mortal danger he placed his entire family in. For God's sake, Ned you have two kids in the city itself. If you're going to threaten the Queen, at least get them thousands of miles away. What exactly was his plan beyond being principled? To ask Robert to ignore Tywin who was bankrolling the entire kingdom and who's child he had married? To tear the kingdom apart because of incest? Tyrion would have bided his time and played the game, not stomp around threatening people. Because of his actions, Ned's also at least partially responsible for inciting a civil war and, through inaction, allowing a monster to seize the throne. Granted, he was placed in an impossible situation by King Robert when he was asked to be Hand, but he managed to make the absolute worst of a bad situation through being a stiff-necked boy scout.

Ned's plan, if it had succeeded, would have gone something like this IMO:

1) Tell Robert about Cersei's adultery and her incest-kids
2) Cersei and kids would have run away, maybe taking Jaime with them. If they were caught, then execution for all of them.
3) Tywin would have been shamed by his childrens' actions and be unable to do anything against Robert. House Lannister's influence drops significantly and perhaps Tywin would forget the debts owed to him by the Crown.
4) Robert continues to rule with Ned as Hand.

Cersei's plan re: Ned would have worked brilliantly too if her son hadn't screwed things up so spectacularly:
1) Have Ned admit his "treason" against Robert.
2) Send him to the Wall for life.
3) Robb would be forced to acknowledge his father's admission of guilt and bend the knee to the Crown, with all the other houses of the North to follow.
4) Renly and Stannis would be unable to do anything with Ned admitting to treason and any claims of Joffrey's illegitimacy being proved false as a result.
5) House Baratheon continues its rule with House Lannister being the true power behind the throne, with Cersei as Queen Regent and Tywin as Hand.

[Navinabob]

Originally Posted by abrg923

As did Littlefinger, Tyrion, and Renly.

RHETORICAL SPECULATION, NOT LOOKING FOR BOOK CONFIRMATION: We still do not know what kind of "agreement" Varys has with the guy from Penthos (Ilyrio, or something like that, his name escapes me...the one who brokered the marage between Khal Drogo and Danerys Targaryen). Watching that scene again, it certainly appeared to me that Varys' "end-game" is seeing Westeros invaded and a Targaryen sitting on the Iron Throne. They haven't followed up in any way, but I think it's something important to remember about Varys.

That is my guess as well.

Unless you are an Imp, I won't trust you. And the only reason I trust him is because I buy his explanation that he is so short because he is being crushed by the weight of truth.

[Mordred]

Originally Posted by Hiro11

I remember last year when everyone was complaining that they killed the "hero" of the show when they killed Ned Stark. Yes he was principled and moral, but the man was also a naive fool who bears direct and primary responsibility for the mortal danger he placed his entire family in. For God's sake, Ned you have two kids in the city itself. If you're going to threaten the Queen, at least get them thousands of miles away. What exactly was his plan beyond being principled? To ask Robert to ignore Tywin who was bankrolling the entire kingdom and who's child he had married? To tear the kingdom apart because of incest? Tyrion would have bided his time and played the game, not stomp around threatening people. Because of his actions, Ned's also at least partially responsible for inciting a civil war and, through inaction, allowing a monster to seize the throne. Granted, he was placed in an impossible situation by King Robert when he was asked to be Hand, but he managed to make the absolute worst of a bad situation through being a stiff-necked boy scout.

I think people in these threads are too hard on Ned. Yes he's principled and moral, and yes he's a little naive, but he was trying to do the right thing. Threatening the Queen was stupid, but everything probably would've been okay if Robert hadn't died during his hunting trip. Ned didn't want the queen's kids to be killed like the Targaryon children were, which is a decent thing to do considering it's not their fault who their parents are. Blaming him for the civil war seems a little unfair just because he didn't understand what was happening behind the scenes.

Robert is certainly more to blame for the events happening now than Ned is.

[argh923]

Originally Posted by Hiro11

I remember last year when everyone was complaining that they killed the "hero" of the show when they killed Ned Stark. Yes he was principled and moral, but the man was also a naive fool who bears direct and primary responsibility for the mortal danger he placed his entire family in. For God's sake, Ned you have two kids in the city itself. If you're going to threaten the Queen, at least get them thousands of miles away. What exactly was his plan beyond being principled? To ask Robert to ignore Tywin who was bankrolling the entire kingdom and who's child he had married? To tear the kingdom apart because of incest? Tyrion would have bided his time and played the game, not stomp around threatening people. Because of his actions, Ned's also at least partially responsible for inciting a civil war and, through inaction, allowing a monster to seize the throne. Granted, he was placed in an impossible situation by King Robert when he was asked to be Hand, but he managed to make the absolute worst of a bad situation through being a stiff-necked boy scout.

Agreed. When I first watched S1, I was shocked that they killed the hero and blah blah, and hated Littlefinger for his evil treachery. On second look...Littlefinger would've been killed had he not done what he did, and he truly did TRY to get Ned to act rationaly. He had a contingency plan for every outcome - Stannis, Renly, Joffrey acting out, all of it - and Ned wouldn't do it solely on the basis of "omg Baelish itz treason oh noes!". And being short-sighted, he paid the iron price. I don't think he was stupid as much as he was absolutely naive. When he told Cat "I belong here with you, not in that rat's nest they call a capital" - truer words have never been spoken.

Originally Posted by Defiant1

Yet he was quite happy to send one of his little birds to kill Dany at Robert's behest back in Season 1. I can't remember if he knew Viserys was dead at this point but if so, House Targaryen would have been extinct if his plan had succeeded.

Exactly! And that's what I can't figure out - he obviously has a partnership with Ilyrio, but Ilyrio wanted more time for Drogo to raise his army/Danerys to give birth to the Stallion Who Will Mount The World...so why would Varys then try to have Danerys assassinated? Fascinating.

Cersei's plan re: Ned would have worked brilliantly too if her son hadn't screwed things up so spectacularly:
1) Have Ned admit his "treason" against Robert.
2) Send him to the Wall for life.
3) Robb would be forced to acknowledge his father's admission of guilt and bend the knee to the Crown, with all the other houses of the North to follow.
4) Renly and Stannis would be unable to do anything with Ned admitting to treason and any claims of Joffrey's illegitimacy being proved false as a result.
5) House Baratheon continues its rule with House Lannister being the true power behind the throne, with Cersei as Queen Regent and Tywin as Hand.

This is why you can't solely blame Ned for igniting a civil war. If Ned Stark lit the match, Joffrey's the one that threw it onto the pile.

Originally Posted by Mordred

I think people in these threads are too hard on Ned. Yes he's principled and moral, and yes he's a little naive, but he was trying to do the right thing. Threatening the Queen was stupid, but everything probably would've been okay if Robert hadn't died during his hunting trip.

Except Cersei (?) plotted his death, by having the Lannister cousin she's banging offer the King more and more wine, leaving him so drunk he couldn't dodge the boar.

Robert is certainly more to blame for the events happening now than Ned is.

I'm not sure how you can possibly believe that one. ???