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Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

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Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Old 05-01-12, 11:49 AM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by Astrofan
So I guess "books" meant three or more, not just two as I was being mocked (by others) for.
Her tenth chapter could be her last.
Old 05-01-12, 12:02 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by Astrofan
So I guess "books" meant three or more, not just two as I was being mocked (by others) for.
Old 05-01-12, 12:08 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by CRM114
I know we aren't allowed to say anything negative in these threads but...
who said that
you are entitled to your opinion
you are however in the minority with your opinion
Old 05-01-12, 12:25 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by CRM114

I suppose I'm alone in seeing Arya as a "meh" character and the girl playing her nothing special.
pretty much everyone is talking about how well Maisie Williams have done, from fans to book readers to critics.

So this might be the one instance where you are alone on a matter.
Old 05-01-12, 12:30 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by Astrofan
So I guess "books" meant three or more, not just two as I was being mocked (by others) for.

Old 05-01-12, 12:34 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by CRM114
Wow, Arya is a pretty insignificant character as far as I can tell at this point. There are so many more characters more compelling than her. IMHO of course. I know we aren't allowed to say anything negative in these threads but...
You said you were the only one that thought Arya is not a great character at this point, we agreed with that you are the only one, and now we are not allowing you to say anything negative?
Old 05-01-12, 12:44 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by superdeluxe
You said you were the only one that thought Arya is not a great character at this point, we agreed with that you are the only one, and now we are not allowing you to say anything negative?
He likes to be offended.
Old 05-01-12, 01:06 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by dhmac
Davos was going on about the scary sorcery of Melisandre, but Stannis' unwillingness to talk about it at all does indicate that he know it goes against his personal "code" yet he'll still do anything to get the iron throne.
Here's what I'm wondering....is he going to tell Melisandre that he's not taking her to King's Landing? Cause I'm thinking she's a.) not going to like that too much, and b.) is way way way way way more powerful than Stannis.

I need to read faster. Still 1/3 of the way through A Game of Thrones. OH NO I MENTIONED A BOOK IN THIS THREAD, GODS STRIKE ME DOWN
Old 05-01-12, 01:09 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by abrg923
Here's what I'm wondering....is he going to tell Melisandre that he's not taking her to King's Landing?
Here's the problem with asking questions like this. In any other show thread you'd be able to reasonably have discussions about possibilities. Or you can just ask rhetorically knowing no one can know yet.

But here book readers can hint at what happens because they know, at least in a general sense because some things are changed which should be apparent by now.

So if you're not a book reader and you ask a question like this, you really should specify whether you want to know or if you're just thinking out loud.
Old 05-01-12, 01:17 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by pinata242
Here's the problem with asking questions like this. In any other show thread you'd be able to reasonably have discussions about possibilities. Or you can just ask rhetorically knowing no one can know yet.

But here book readers can hint at what happens because they know, at least in a general sense because some things are changed which should be apparent by now.

So if you're not a book reader and you ask a question like this, you really should specify whether you want to know or if you're just thinking out loud.
Yeah I kind of spoiled something for the wife yesterday when we were talking about Gendry and Arya scene from the episode

Spoilerish, not a specific spoiler, just potential plot lines about who lives and dies

Spoiler:
Wife asked if Gendry and Arya have get together, I said, not yet they haven't, but they might down the road, then she said she I spoiled her because A)Now she knows both of them are still alive and B)They won't be hooking up till the latest book.


I was like damn.
Old 05-01-12, 01:18 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Won't discuss any further differences in events in the series that contradict later (unmentioned) events in the series even when trying to avoid spoilers. Will take those comments to the book/series thread (it's not purely a "book" thread since comparisons to the series are mentioned there).

However, one thing about the praised "Arya-Tywin stare-down" bothered me. Setting aside book differences, in the series Arya is trying to survive and has just managed to escape an excruciating, fearsome death at the hands of torturers. Is she really going to risk offending the head Lannister (who has just mentioned that he is only sparing the head of a retainer because the offending party is related to him)? And, re: the admiration for the way the writers had Tywin push the plate away after Arya's comment about "anyone can die", does anyone think that Tywin Lannister would for a second brook any threat, no matter how veiled it might be? Even just the series gives the impression that Tywin would pull a Bolton and flay the hide off anyone who dared to suggest any sort of threat against his person (or anyone in his family, for that matter...even the despised Tyrion). It plays well onscreen, but it's not true to the ruthless character of Tywin. And even impetuous Arya would not be so rash as to threaten him to his face. She's seen how little human life holds for these people.

And I just thought of how I expected the scenes with The Tickler to be portrayed. I would rather have seen a calmly menacing figure that recalled the Nazi played by Sir Laurence Olivier in Marathon Man (the scene that caused a drop in dental visits), right down to the repeated questions (substituting "Is there gold in the village" for "Is it safe"?). I also would have liked to have seen it played out more through the screams and sounds rather than the 'rat' scene. Hearing the agony but not knowing exactly what was being done to the victim would be enough to make the captives do what Hot Pie did when he realized how narrowly he escaped being chosen. And, to add to the horror, a shot of a child being led away to be 'interrogated' would have established the insane cruelty of the torturers. Just sayin'.
Old 05-01-12, 01:19 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by superdeluxe
pretty much everyone is talking about how well Maisie Williams have done, from fans to book readers to critics.

So this might be the one instance where you are alone on a matter.
Sure, for a child actress with a few lines here and there.

Originally Posted by superdeluxe
You said you were the only one that thought Arya is not a great character at this point, we agreed with that you are the only one, and now we are not allowing you to say anything negative?
It's not the first criticism I've made of the show. Each time it's met with fan resistance. It's not unusual for this genre.
Old 05-01-12, 01:25 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by CRM114
Sure, for a child actress with a few lines here and there.
So you agree as well then.
Old 05-01-12, 01:45 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by CRM114


It's not the first criticism I've made of the show. Each time it's met with fan resistance. It's not unusual for this genre.
again, it meets with resistance because you are in the minority
it is not unusual for any genre
love the moniker (Kubrick reference) but not quite sure where you are going with this
Old 05-01-12, 01:48 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by Astrofan
So I guess "books" meant three or more, not just two as I was being mocked (by others) for.
I can't tell what you're implying here. A Clash of Kings is the second book in the series in case you thought he was referencing the 3rd book. If you think having a lot of chapters in this series means you'll live to the next book, you should ask Ned Stark and his 15 chapters how that worked out.
Old 05-01-12, 02:08 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by pinata242
Here's the problem with asking questions like this. In any other show thread you'd be able to reasonably have discussions about possibilities. Or you can just ask rhetorically knowing no one can know yet.

But here book readers can hint at what happens because they know, at least in a general sense because some things are changed which should be apparent by now.

So if you're not a book reader and you ask a question like this, you really should specify whether you want to know or if you're just thinking out loud.
Fair point...I'll be more mindful of that going forward. It was definitely a rhetorical question in this instance.
Old 05-01-12, 03:01 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by creekdipper
And I just thought of how I expected the scenes with The Tickler to be portrayed. I would rather have seen a calmly menacing figure that recalled the Nazi played by Sir Laurence Olivier in Marathon Man (the scene that caused a drop in dental visits), right down to the repeated questions (substituting "Is there gold in the village" for "Is it safe"?). I also would have liked to have seen it played out more through the screams and sounds rather than the 'rat' scene. Hearing the agony but not knowing exactly what was being done to the victim would be enough to make the captives do what Hot Pie did when he realized how narrowly he escaped being chosen. And, to add to the horror, a shot of a child being led away to be 'interrogated' would have established the insane cruelty of the torturers. Just sayin'.
Oh noes, you just spoiled Marathon Man by revealing what happens...
Old 05-01-12, 04:22 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by creekdipper
And even impetuous Arya would not be so rash as to threaten him to his face. She's seen how little human life holds for these people.
But that's the value of the scene. I won't say it's 100% pitch perfect, but it's just about as close as I've seen a scene like that played.

We know who Arya is and what she's feeling, but Tywin doesn't. To him she's just a scared little girl who dressed like a boy to escape savagery in the wild. If Tywin felt even the slightest threat from her, there's no way he would tell her to go get his water. He would not keep her as his cup bearer. And he very likely, as you said, would flat out kill her. But instead, from his point of view what we have is a little girl who is on her own who is basically asked and innocently and immaturely responds, "Anyone can be killed." Even if it's the wrong response, he doesn't think it's a threat or one that diminishes his status. But he does gaze at her to see if those elements are there in her response.

That brings us to the length of the held eyes. In that situation, there are two schools of thought. You look someone in the eye as a sign of respect, or you look away from someone as a sign of deferent respect (similar to kneeling and looking down). I think if you're bringing water, you avert your eyes in deferent respect. But if you're being directly addressed, you may hold eyes. If you don't, you may get, "Look at me when I'm talking to you!" So I don't think Arya looking at him while being addressed and queried is inherently wrong. It's made more wrong only because we know more about her than Tywin does. Otherwise it's just a little helpless girl sitting there waiting for her next command.

Like many others, Arya and Tyrion are my favorite characters.
Old 05-01-12, 04:31 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Another thing to remember is that females are worthless hostages. This world is very patriarchal, they value sons. If Tywin thought she was actually Arya Stark, or anyone of noble birth, holding her hostage to try to force Robb's hand would be pointless. Even Cat knows Robb would never even trade Jaime Lannister for "two girls", Robb's own sisters.

Arya may be held captive out of respect, but they may as well kill her or marry her off to some Lannister bannerman's son to further put the southron influence into the north.
Old 05-01-12, 04:39 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

C'mon man. Worthless? Just because they couldn't trade her for Jaimie doesn't make her worthless.
Old 05-01-12, 04:41 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Originally Posted by Brian Gentz
They are making Margaery a more interesting character, really liked the scene with her and Littlefinger.
This was a great development, especially since we know she's already a power-hungry schemer.

Originally Posted by MrX
I love the scenes at Harrenhal. The guy playing Jaqen H'ghar is fantastic.
I love how his lines obviously make him a foreigner, and a noble one possibly.

<hr>

Here's a thought, everyone discussing the fucking books:

Go to the Book Thread.

Have you never read the books, and wonder what will happen, or are unclear on something not yet explained in the TV show?

Go to the Book Thread.

Have a long, spoilery paragraph about how a character's death was different in the book blah blah blah

Go to the Book Thread. Go to the Book Thread. Go to the Book Thread!!!: http://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/600...materials.html
The discussion here is worthless otherwise.
Old 05-01-12, 05:04 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Also, I think Tywin respects intelligence, with Arya obviously has. I think he asked her an honest question and expected an honest response. Juxtaposed with his frustration with his council.
Old 05-01-12, 05:52 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

I'm not going to go to the book thread if I'm asking about the difference between something, considering the rest of the book would be spoiled in that thread. That's just stupid. I'll put my question out, and the person responding to it can answer in a spoiler tag. No harm, no foul.

The book threads are for people who have read all of the books. Sometimes we who haven't seek a little clarification on things that readers of the books can provide. It's ridiculous to expect us to go there for answers.

All of this is absolute 100% common sense and yet every single week people complain about it. It's beyond me.
Old 05-01-12, 06:22 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

Let me preface this by saying I understand this is the internet and moreso an internet forum, and opinions are not worth the data packets it costs to transmit them, but...

I typically steer pretty clear of these threads in general, especially since they are starting to approach "The Walking Dead" status. Not surprisingly it is a similar situation, with an avid fan base of the original material conversing with newcomers to the material through the popular show.

While I (never having picked up one of the books) would like to ask questions like "What the hell is a Harrenhal?" I don't. The material has great depth (one of the reasons I enjoy it) and because of that I don't know if my lack of knowledge is because I missed a seemingly throwaway line in an earlier episode or because it has intentionally been withheld to this point in the story due to some insane reveal coming next week. So I don't ask, thereby trying to prevent someone who has read the books from inadvertently (or not) spilling a little more than I would prefer.

So it would be nice if you have a question like "Does this guy/girl/dragon do something important?" please take those to the spoiler thread. You are literally asking for spoilers to be posted and there is a thread for that.

I love the series and would enjoy discussing it. But even an answer like "She barely appears in the third book" is a major spoiler for a series like this where no one is safe (again, another reason I enjoy it). So I tread pretty carefully in these episode threads and really appreciate those who use the spoilers to answer questions and especially with a non-spoilerized comment such as "Regarding Arya..." to help me decide whether to peek or not.
Old 05-01-12, 06:38 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

But again, if I take that question to the spoiler thread, I'm going to see all kinds of things that maybe I don't want to know. Maybe we who ask those questions should state, as I have before, "Please put in spoiler tags". That might help.

To address your concern, I would say to ask, "If it hasn't been explained yet, please don't spoil it for me".

By the way, Harrenhal is the city where Arya and Tywin are currently at. Not a spoiler, since it's in the opening credits for the past two episodes.

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