Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12

[wishbone]

Originally Posted by areacode212

I go back-and-forth on Will (the deserter). Yeah, he was scared shitless, but was he that out of it that he once he ran down to the Wall, he couldn't travel along it to reach Castle Black to warn everyone? But then again, he was probably that terrified that he wanted to place as much distance between himself and the North as possible.

The show embellished on his reasons beyond him simply being a deserter. For all of the kingdoms Winterfell would be the most receptive to a claim that the White Walkers walked again but even then not a lot of stock was put into it at the time of his execution.

[Ketamine]

Originally Posted by MikahC

In Deserter's defense, it wasn't "because he saw a White Walker" like, "Hey, look at the little bunny." It's BECAUSE HE SAW A WHITE WALKER! Maybe I need to watch the scene again, but I remember a guy who was completely disoriented because he watched his friends savaged and barely escaped with his life. I didn't think it was so much a matter of him running off and not telling anyone as much as it was he didn't have a chance yet before he was found.

So let's put it out there and see if this makes sense. Correct me where I'm wrong... A small group of Night's Watch is out, they're savagely (and murderously) attacked by White Walkers, one guy is terrified but gets away. While roaming the countryside horseless he's spotted by Ned's people. He tells them he's seen a White Walker. They're like, "And Santa Claus too? Screw that, you're a deserter." So they bring him back to Ned and tell Ned what he said. So Ned's all, "Yeah, yeah... whatever... look, I don't have all day, just put your head on the block." ** CHOP ** What's for dinner?

In all seriousness, I get Ned being by the book, but when someone does something he isn't supposed to do, I'd like to know why. If he provides a stupid (or no) reason, sure, off with his head. But exactly what was the guy supposed to do? Again, maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but my sense of the scene back when it happened was I didn't see much else the guy could have done after his comrades were killed and he lost his horse. He had to wander back to civilization solo.

The only thing I'm not sure of (or remembering) is if it was a sanctioned Night's Watch patrol. If all of them were in fact deserters and he had no legitimate reason to be out there in the first place, that would be different. But I don't remember that being the case. I certainly don't remember Ned asking. Before I'd assume someone is a deserter, I'd ask "What were you doing out there".

The 3 were on a ranging mission north of the wall as directed by the leader of the Night's Watch. Bad things were going down north of the wall and these 3 were to find out what is going on and report back. Turns out things worse than they thought and this guy deserted instead of warning his brothers. Sure he was afraid but that doesn't excuse him deserting. You can say he not in his right mind or he was planning on telling people as soon as he could but the reality is that he made it all the way back to the wall and then somehow got beyond it south of the wall and kept running south when he was caught. He had his chances to do the right thing and didn't which put the realm and all his brothers in serious danger. Yeah he made a poor choice out of fear, but the law says he should die and Ned carried his sentence out. I'm sure everyone has a good excuse why they leave the wall including they saw something like the White Walkers. Believe him or not, Ned just following the law as he always does.

Going further along the "Stark Family Honor," topic... Sansa sucks. Sure she's a sympathetic figure now, but she has previously lied and been totally self-centered. Let's not forget she lied in front of everyone against her sister (her own flesh and blood) so as not to risk her spot as wife of the future King. She'd rather be wife of Mad King II than point out he's a butthole and lose her spot. Her list of transgressions is long and in no way do I consider her a person of honor. But then, as we've said, it's not all black and white. She has shown redeeming qualities.

Sansa is a piece of work, entitled bitch princess want-to-be at the start of this series. She quickly figuring things out now that she is at King's Landing. I'm guessing deep down she is a good person but it has taken her world falling apart for her to grow up.

[chowderhead]

Originally Posted by Mordred

It honestly doesn't make any sense. Someone in the mental state he was in couldn't have climbed the wall... certainly not by himself and without ropes. He couldn't have gone through a deserted towers gate because then all the wildlings could get through the same spot as well. He couldn't have gone through castle black because they would've opened the gate for him and interrogated him. He couldn't have gone around because it would've taken forever. He'd have to somehow know a secret passage under the wall, but that seems unlikely too.

You can tell this really bugs me

Spoiler:

there are secret passages that only the Night Watch know about. Sam came through the black gate in ASOS to meet up with Bran/Hodor/Reeds at Nightfort. Only members of the Night Watch were allowed passage through i.e. plot device/hole since Will and Mance would have known about this and could have use this gate to pass.

[MikahC]

Originally Posted by Ketamine

You can say he not in his right mind or he was planning on telling people as soon as he could but the reality is that he made it all the way back to the wall and then somehow got beyond it south of the wall and kept running south when he was caught.

Thanks for that. I was actually missing that since at the time that all happened, I didn't have a good sense of North of Wall, South of Wall, etc. All I was seeing was Ned killing this guy for deserting because he didn't believe his explanation, but his explanation was not just true but valid.

[Ketamine]

Originally Posted by MikahC

Thanks for that. I was actually missing that since at the time that all happened, I didn't have a good sense of North of Wall, South of Wall, etc. All I was seeing was Ned killing this guy for deserting because he didn't believe his explanation, but his explanation was not just true but valid.

I think Ned in a lot of ways did believe him. His explanation was truthful, but in some ways worse than leaving because he was just being tired of being at on the wall. There was a real threat and he abandoned his bothers on the wall. Of all times to make an example of someone, this was the time. Otherwise I could see mass defections if there were white walkers and windings threatening the North and there was no punishment for leaving to save your own ass.

I can see why it confusining where things happening since this was at the beginning of the 1st episode. Knowing what really going on though shows that Ned did right by the law and his beliefs.

[Ketamine]

Originally Posted by chowderhead

Spoiler:

there are secret passages that only the Night Watch know about. Sam came through the black gate in ASOS to meet up with Bran/Hodor/Reeds at Nightfort. Only members of the Night Watch were allowed passage through i.e. plot device/hole since Will and Mance would have known about this and could have use this gate to pass.

Spoiler:

I guess there could be some issues with Mance knowing about passages but book readers know Mance has been south of the wall on occasions and likely used these passages. To move an entire group of people (and other creatures) through these passageways may not be so simple though. Likely could use these passages as one way to assault the wall but maybe he has reasons not to also.