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Old 04-20-12, 02:49 PM   #1
Bluelitespecial
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Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/04/17/ba...acism-lawsuit/

I guess it was only a matter of time before someone found a way to do this. So if a season of the bachelor has a cast of contestants who are white, and that is who watches the show, then what is the problem? I hope the case is thrown out or abc wins. Its not like someone is going to sue BEt or Univision for not having anyone who is white on their networks. Maybe they can license knock off versions to BET to settle the case.
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Old 04-20-12, 03:22 PM   #2
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

Assuming you watch the show, if there were a black lead, would you watch? If not, why not?

I'm curious to see how the lawsuit progresses. Specifically, I want to see what social obligations an entertainment enterprise has. I'll have to do a lot of reading between the lines, though, as nobody will say what they really think in the case. What I'd really like to see Mike Fleiss say is, "We're targeting a white audience and we believe most of them don't want to see a black lead. We're in the ratings game and we believe the way we're doing it will give us the highest ratings. Done. We rest our case." Then I'd like to see the plaintiff's lawyer present to a judge why they shouldn't be allowed to do this. But of course Fleiss would get fried if he came out and said that, so he goes with, "We'd love to have blacks on the show... they don't turn out." And probably some statement about how they pick leads from previous contestants and there haven't been enough blacks vying to compete for the lead. Blah blah blah.

BTW, if there's a bias, the suit needs to stop trying to be all inclusive and stick to what it's about -- blacks. Hispanics haven't had any problems getting on the show. In fact, Ali picked Roberto Martinez. And I don't know what "Jason Mesnick" is, but he doesn't seem Aryan. I'm sure there are others. Or maybe the lawsuit considers Roberto "white hispanic" and thus part of the majority.

I'll be watching.
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Old 04-20-12, 03:32 PM   #3
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

All this tells me is that black men don't need a stupid TV show to get laid.
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Old 04-20-12, 03:34 PM   #4
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

I'd watch The Bachelor with a black lead, but only if there's a "On the Down Low" side-game.
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Old 04-20-12, 03:36 PM   #5
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

Deanna Pappas isn't white, and also maybe the chosen Bachelor or Bachelorette doesn't want to date outside of their race also something to consider.
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Old 04-20-12, 03:40 PM   #6
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

I thought black people had their own crappy dating shows...





As to the actual case, it'll get thrown out. It's like the complaints in the 90s about Seinfeld and Friends. Next thing you'll hear is that there hasn't been a gay bachelor yet.
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Old 04-20-12, 03:41 PM   #7
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

So... "The Blachelor" anyone? (Too soon?)
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Old 04-20-12, 03:44 PM   #8
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

Didn't they try a gay bachelor show, but rather than playing it straight (no pun intended), they also included hetero guys in the bunch who were pretending to be gay?
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Old 04-20-12, 03:44 PM   #9
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

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Originally Posted by Patman View Post
So... "The Blachelor" anyone? (Too soon?)
How about The Bach-lizzle? Bachela?
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Old 04-20-12, 03:53 PM   #10
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

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Didn't they try a gay bachelor show, but rather than playing it straight (no pun intended), they also included hetero guys in the bunch who were pretending to be gay?
There was a show that was actually called "Playing It Straight" on Fox, that had a female trying to pick a mate from a mix of straight and gay men who pretended to be straight.

But Bravo (naturally) had a show called Boy Meets Boy where a guy had to choose between gay and straight men acting gay.

Both shows had a cash prize if the contestant 's final choice was of the correct orientation. And in both shows, they picked correctly.
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Old 04-21-12, 09:22 AM   #11
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

I had a feeling this was going to happen. They sometimes have a token black woman on the Bachelor.
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Old 04-21-12, 10:50 AM   #12
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

It's kind of a no win situation. If they have a black bachelor and a house full of white women, it will upset the surprisingly still sizable group that is offended by thought of black men "stealing our precious white women". If they put a bunch of black women in the mix it will be considered a "black show" and not draw as big an audience.
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Old 04-21-12, 11:28 AM   #13
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

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Originally Posted by majorjoe23 View Post
It's kind of a no win situation. If they have a black bachelor and a house full of white women, it will upset the surprisingly still sizable group that is offended by thought of black men "stealing our precious white women". If they put a bunch of black women in the mix it will be considered a "black show" and not draw as big an audience.
That's exactly why they don't do it. It's just that nobody wants to say it. That's what the plaintiffs are counting on.

Now if they can get someone who looks like Halle Berry to star in the Bachelorette, that would work.
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Old 04-21-12, 11:48 AM   #14
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

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Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
I had a feeling this was going to happen. They sometimes have a token black woman on the Bachelor.
I'm not a long-time watcher but I don't recall a black woman on the show. How did she get along with the rest of the women? Did she seem comfortable? Did she get any dates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by majorjoe23 View Post
It's kind of a no win situation. If they have a black bachelor and a house full of white women, it will upset the surprisingly still sizable group that is offended by thought of black men "stealing our precious white women". If they put a bunch of black women in the mix it will be considered a "black show" and not draw as big an audience.
If they have a black bachelor and a house full of white women, it won't be only whites outraged. Blacks (especially black women) would be outraged too. I do, however, think the ratings would tank once a tipping point is reached with integrating the show. I don't know what that tipping point is, but I find the whole topic interesting.

I'm not one to hide bias, though I try not to let my biases affect other people's lives. I'm all for gay rights, for instance, but I still wouldn't watch a gay dating show. I also have nothing against Asians, but I doubt I'd watch an "Asian dating show." But strangely, if they did have an Asian as the lead on The Bachelor, it wouldn't really change my desire to view the show -- as long as it's not all Chinatown and Year of The Dragon. At the end of the day (for me), it's about how the show is presented, not the ethnic makeup of the participants. So if they had a Denzel Washington type black lead (but younger), that wouldn't bother me. But if you get someone with a power afro who goess off the deep in on Kwanzaa and Dashikis, it would probably lose me (and I suspect much of the audience).

It's the burden of the plaintiffs to present how the show "should" be done in their world view. Personally, I'm for integration, but I don't, for instance, see Brad seriously dating a black woman. Nor do I see Ali dating a black man. And if you had a black lead, would white women vy for him or would the women all have to be black? That wouldn't work.

It's an interesting question to bring up so that Americans can look at their attitudes about these things, but when all is said and done, I don't see the plaintiffs being able to present any scenario that's "better" than what the producers are already doing. If you REALLY feel strongly about it, put together your competing data show that does it right and sell it and see how it does.
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Old 04-21-12, 11:59 AM   #15
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

thats why i said can a show not have a white cast and cater to a white audience, i dont want to watch a show with a black bachelor dating white women. not everyone believes in interracial dating. The only way the show could work is if they did an all black show, but then no one would watch like past seasons.
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Old 04-21-12, 12:03 PM   #16
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

Quote:
I'm not a long-time watcher but I don't recall a black woman on the show. How did she get along with the rest of the women? Did she seem comfortable? Did she get any dates?
I remember seeing one once or twice. IIRC, one of them got past the opening night, but no further. When that happened, I figured that the producers asked him not to cut her right away.
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Old 04-21-12, 12:08 PM   #17
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

It's like Love Connection back in its day....they had blacks and whites on, but never mixing in dates nor choices. But having both on as 'contestants' prevented discrimination suits....in a "separate but equal" kind of way.
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Old 04-21-12, 12:34 PM   #18
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

I can't see this suit going too far. Several years ago, an office assistant on the show Friends sued Warner Bros. and the writers of Friends for sexual harassment because she had to hear the writers' very graphic sexual discussions during the writing process, which included their own personal stories and rather rude and graphic jokes about the actors on the show. The case went all the way to the California Supreme Court, which barred the suit on various grounds. The Court did not really address First Amendment concerns regarding the need to be free to discuss sexual matters when writing a show geared toward adults and sexual situations, but it was clear that the Supreme Court did not want to allow such suits in situations like that. If you want to read that decision, search Google for "Lyle v. Warner Bros." The factual allegations concerning what the writers were saying about the actors is pretty funny.

Here, the decisions related to casting on a show can really implicate First Amendment and speech related issues. This lawsuit could even be seen as targeting protected speech and be subject to early dismissal under California's anti-SLAPP law. Essentially, these people are asking the courts to manage casting decisions and what kind of show to put on television, which is essentially speech. It is one thing for the government to restrict certain speech on broadcast TV, it is another for the government to affirmatively mandate certain speech. Not likely to happen.
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Old 04-21-12, 01:14 PM   #19
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

I don't know what that suit would have to do with this. It's not about the First Amendment....it would be an equal protection case. It's completely different arguments and issues.
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Old 04-21-12, 01:22 PM   #20
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelitespecial View Post
http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/04/17/ba...acism-lawsuit/

I guess it was only a matter of time before someone found a way to do this. So if a season of the bachelor has a cast of contestants who are white, and that is who watches the show, then what is the problem? I hope the case is thrown out or abc wins. Its not like someone is going to sue BEt or Univision for not having anyone who is white on their networks. Maybe they can license knock off versions to BET to settle the case.
What? There are plenty of white people on BET and Univision (Even shows targeted towards minorities have token characters, who are often surprisingly more well-written than said characters in "white-oriented shows").

I find that people who put out the sort of blanket arguments that you just did tend to be either ignorant or racist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelitespecial View Post
i dont want to watch a show with a black bachelor dating white women. not everyone believes in interracial dating.
Oh well, this is what I get for not reading past the first post before posting. Case closed.

Last edited by Dragon Tattoo; 04-21-12 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 04-21-12, 01:31 PM   #21
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

http://tvline.com/2012/04/20/bachelo...n-lawsuit-abc/

I happened to come across this and I had to check the byline to make sure I hadn't written it.
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Old 04-21-12, 01:48 PM   #22
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

Ugh. Black people are so racist.
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Old 04-21-12, 02:32 PM   #23
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

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Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
I don't know what that suit would have to do with this. It's not about the First Amendment....it would be an equal protection case. It's completely different arguments and issues.
I don't think it is all that different, and I think the First Amendment is implicated. A lawsuit aimed at forcing a TV program to cast an equal amount of races directly requires the courts to involve themselves in the production of a TV show. Now, a game show certainly has a more difficult argument as to why they would not be casting more equally, but such a lawsuit could be used to argue that scripted shows are also not equal enough in casting other races.

Importantly, if a network wants to target only a particular race or gender or age group for a particular TV show, they should have every right to do so under the First Amendment. Not all programs need to be aimed at the entire public. Should Tyler Perry's next movie be required to cast an equal amount of Caucasian people? Why would it as it is geared primarily toward an African American audience, and there is nothing wrong with that.

There was a case a few years ago where a listener of the Tom Leykis show sued for age discrimination because Leykis told his listeners that he would not allow (generally) any callers over the age of 45 because they were outside his target demographic. He was sued under the same law being cited in this article: the Unruh Civil Rights Act. The lawsuit was dismissed on an anti-SLAPP motion because of First Amendment rights. Again, it is not necessarily the same thing, but there are arguments that Courts should not be getting involved in casting decisions, or deciding who should be the target audience of a particular program.

Last edited by sherm42; 04-21-12 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 04-21-12, 02:34 PM   #24
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

Definitely a generational thing. Some of the blind dating shows on MTV will set a white female up with a black or Hispanic or Asian guy, or vice versa, and skin color rarely seems to be an issue. Credit that to a generation of teens- to 20-somethings who don't think interracial dating is that big of a deal. From interacting with 14- to 18-year olds every day, I see that young adults are way more tolerant of this than the Bachelor's 30? 40?-year old demo.

I bet you see more mixed-race casts on shows like the Bachelor in about a decade.
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Old 04-21-12, 02:41 PM   #25
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Re: Producers of the Bachelor/Bachelorette getting sued for racial Discrimination

Quote:
Originally Posted by sherm42 View Post
I don't think it is all that different, and I think the First Amendment is implicated. A lawsuit aimed at forcing a TV program to cast an equal amount of races directly requires the courts to involve themselves in the production of a TV show. Now, a game show certainly has a more difficult argument as to why they would not be casting more equally, but such a lawsuit could be used to argue that scripted shows are also not equal enough in casting other races.

Importantly, if a network wants to target only a particular race or gender or age group for a particular TV show, they should have every right to do so under the First Amendment. Not all programs need to be aimed at the entire public. Should Tyler Perry's next movie be required to cast an equal amount of Caucasian people? Why would it as it is geared primarily toward an African American audience, and there is nothing wrong with that.

There was a case a few years ago where a listener of the Tom Leykis show sued for age discrimination because Leykis told his listeners that he would not allow (generally) any callers over the age of 45 because they were outside his target demographic. The lawsuit was dismissed on an anti-SLAPP motion because of First Amendment rights. Again, it is not necessarily the same thing, but there are arguments that Courts should not be getting involved in casting decisions, or deciding who should be the target audience of a particular program.
As for Leykis, I'm not aware of the circumstances, but that's not a first amendment issue either. That's age discrimination which is on a much different legal plane than race discrimination. For example, if geriatrics sued the producers of The Bachelor as a class becaue there are no senior citizens cast, they'd have no chance.

And as you said, The Bachelor is part reality and part game show. It's that latter part which really creates the problem as I see the legal issues (and I want to make clear that I don't agree with where the law falls on equal protection and race discrimination as it involves non-governmental actors - I think the Bachelor producers should be able to cast whomever they damn well please).
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