Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
03-20-12, 10:47 PM
#251
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
03-21-12, 04:01 AM
#252
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
Yes, companies should do all they can to make the most profit possible, but what Marvel and DC did catering to the speculators was rather shortsighted. They should have known speculators wouldn't stick around like long-term readers do, but yet they were catering almost solely to the speculators and alienated the actual readers who began leaving in droves. That wasn't a good long-term business strategy getting rid of the long-term readers, because once the speculators move on to something else there is nobody left buying, and that's exactly what happened.
I don't think there is any more apathy towards printed material now than ever before. Thinking that kid's today don't like reading is looking through rose-colored nostalgia glasses. In any given generation, a large number of people have never liked reading. Things haven't really changed that much. We just think so because when looking at the past we tend to only remember the good and not the bad. The popularity of the Harry Potter books showed that a lot of kids still like to read.
I think more than anything its just that video games have stolen a large percentage of the marketshare away from reading for entertainment. The Playstation era is when video games started becoming extremely popular and mainstream, and this was the late 90s when the comic industry started struggling. I don't think that is coincidence. The Atari 2600, NES, and SNES were all popular, sure, but nothing compared to the Playstation and Xbox era.
I don't think there is any more apathy towards printed material now than ever before. Thinking that kid's today don't like reading is looking through rose-colored nostalgia glasses. In any given generation, a large number of people have never liked reading. Things haven't really changed that much. We just think so because when looking at the past we tend to only remember the good and not the bad. The popularity of the Harry Potter books showed that a lot of kids still like to read.
I think more than anything its just that video games have stolen a large percentage of the marketshare away from reading for entertainment. The Playstation era is when video games started becoming extremely popular and mainstream, and this was the late 90s when the comic industry started struggling. I don't think that is coincidence. The Atari 2600, NES, and SNES were all popular, sure, but nothing compared to the Playstation and Xbox era.
Once people realized these comics were never going to be worth more than cover price, the speculators all left the industry and took many actual customers with them.
03-21-12, 09:56 AM
#253
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
I don't think there is any more apathy towards printed material now than ever before. Thinking that kid's today don't like reading is looking through rose-colored nostalgia glasses. In any given generation, a large number of people have never liked reading. Things haven't really changed that much. We just think so because when looking at the past we tend to only remember the good and not the bad. The popularity of the Harry Potter books showed that a lot of kids still like to read.
03-21-12, 10:12 AM
#254
Suspended
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
We will then agree to disagree. Growing up my parents owned a print shot, and I worked about 18 years in newspapers and publishing. There is a serious crisis right now regarding printed material – ALL printed material. As newer generations become accustomed to getting their information on a computer screen the chasm between those who prefer the printed word over the digital one continues to grow. Just look at how many daily newspapers and magazines have either disappeared or have seen their circulation drop. I invite you to read some of Pew Research Center’s State of the Media reports from the last five years. It’s really bad.
03-21-12, 11:37 AM
#255
Banned
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
We will then agree to disagree. Growing up my parents owned a print shot, and I worked about 18 years in newspapers and publishing. There is a serious crisis right now regarding printed material – ALL printed material. As newer generations become accustomed to getting their information on a computer screen the chasm between those who prefer the printed word over the digital one continues to grow. Just look at how many daily newspapers and magazines have either disappeared or have seen their circulation drop. I invite you to read some of Pew Research Center’s State of the Media reports from the last five years. It’s really bad.
I agree that newspapers and magazines are hurting, but I don't think comic books really fall into the same category. Comics are collectibles; newspapers and magazines are not. People will always want to collect comic books, and a digital comic isn't really a collectible.
03-21-12, 11:48 AM
#256
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
I caught the Killing Joke's wrong date right away and, like a complete nerd, had to exclaim the correct date. My wife just shook her head.
I remember going into a comic shop the morning that McFarlane's Spider-Man #1 was released. I got there when they opened and the clerk was still putting the comics on the shelves and asked me if I wanted a Spider-Man. I replied "sure" and he asked me how many I wanted. When I told him "one" he thought I was nuts. I don't recall how many he said he was buying but I do remember his response when I asked him "Why?":
"I'm going buy a house or put my kids through college with the money I make on them."
And this was from a guy who was at least college-aged and should have been familiar enough with the industry (he did work in a comic shop) to know better.
I remember going into a comic shop the morning that McFarlane's Spider-Man #1 was released. I got there when they opened and the clerk was still putting the comics on the shelves and asked me if I wanted a Spider-Man. I replied "sure" and he asked me how many I wanted. When I told him "one" he thought I was nuts. I don't recall how many he said he was buying but I do remember his response when I asked him "Why?":
"I'm going buy a house or put my kids through college with the money I make on them."
And this was from a guy who was at least college-aged and should have been familiar enough with the industry (he did work in a comic shop) to know better.
03-21-12, 12:00 PM
#257
DVD Talk Hero
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell
Posts: 34,103
Received 730 Likes
on
532 Posts
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
Wasn't Spider-Man #1 was dependent on which variant you got. Was it the black/gold cover that was super limited in its print run?
03-21-12, 12:01 PM
#258
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
I agree that newspapers and magazines are hurting, but I don't think comic books really fall into the same category. Comics are collectibles; newspapers and magazines are not. People will always want to collect comic books, and a digital comic isn't really a collectible.
The biggest problem is that there are fewer and fewer people who want to collect comics. Where you a collector when you read your first comic? Maybe the younger generation start out as collectors but I was born in the 60's and the first comic I read was an old tattered Captain Marvel Adventures. I read hundreds or thousands comics between then and when I became a "collector" in the 80's. And by that I mean I began to preserve the comics with bags and backing boards and ending up buying more than I read. To this day I have a shit-ton of Image comics that I never got around to reading. Until then I'd read and re-read a comic till the cover fell off and then I'd read it some more.
Any industry, comics included, that doesn't build a customer base to replace those that outgrow it or for whatever reason leave it is going to have trouble and collectors and speculators aren't enough to sustain it. I haven't studied the industry or its finances but I'd bet that if it wasn't for the money that comic related movies have been bringing in the publishers would be in dire condition right now.
03-21-12, 12:09 PM
#259
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
I can't recall all the details but there were bagged versions and unbagged versions, some silver, some green. Then there was a gold version that I think was a second printing. The version I was talking about was the regular, direct sales silver version that the clerk was stockpiling.
03-21-12, 12:12 PM
#260
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: It's always Hot!
Posts: 867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
I caught the Killing Joke's wrong date right away and, like a complete nerd, had to exclaim the correct date. My wife just shook her head.
I remember going into a comic shop the morning that McFarlane's Spider-Man #1 was released. I got there when they opened and the clerk was still putting the comics on the shelves and asked me if I wanted a Spider-Man. I replied "sure" and he asked me how many I wanted. When I told him "one" he thought I was nuts. I don't recall how many he said he was buying but I do remember his response when I asked him "Why?":
"I'm going buy a house or put my kids through college with the money I make on them."
And this was from a guy who was at least college-aged and should have been familiar enough with the industry (he did work in a comic shop) to know better.
I remember going into a comic shop the morning that McFarlane's Spider-Man #1 was released. I got there when they opened and the clerk was still putting the comics on the shelves and asked me if I wanted a Spider-Man. I replied "sure" and he asked me how many I wanted. When I told him "one" he thought I was nuts. I don't recall how many he said he was buying but I do remember his response when I asked him "Why?":
"I'm going buy a house or put my kids through college with the money I make on them."
And this was from a guy who was at least college-aged and should have been familiar enough with the industry (he did work in a comic shop) to know better.
I did make some coin on the Killing Joker 1st run. I had a 100 of them (I order 10 but put a extra 0). Went to a comic show sold them for $50 each (others where trying to get $75 to $100) was kick out by the time I sold 80 copy's. I still have 5 copies of the 1st run.
The Spiderman, I did have one of each cover. I do not remember what cover was what but one was worth some coin. I sold it that day also, before I read it.
What happens is or back then. Their is a new report on TV about some person selling a comic for $$$ and there you go, everyone thinks a comic with .10/.12/.20 is worth $$$. back in the day they did not print very many of them. Then in the late 80s and 90s. This cover, that cover, a card, bagged, 100,000,000 copies printed.
The only person that makes money is the wholesaler of them. I would buy them for 20% of cover, sell them (wholesale) for %60. At times I would even go to shows (before the internet) and walk out with $$$. Ok,, I did not walk out I was ask to leave.
Here's one for you Death of Superman. This was in the news, print, radio for weeks before it came out. Yes the Robin one was not.
03-21-12, 12:15 PM
#261
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: It's always Hot!
Posts: 867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
I can't recall all the details but there were bagged versions and unbagged versions, some silver, some green. Then there was a gold version that I think was a second printing. The version I was talking about was the regular, direct sales silver version that the clerk was stockpiling.
03-21-12, 12:24 PM
#262
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
Getting back on topic... I actually ended up liking this show more than I ever imagined after that first episode. I hope they get a second season. Woudln't mind seeing a female in the mix regardless of the name of the show.
03-21-12, 12:54 PM
#263
DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,902
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
The issue really was that people stopped reading them and just collecting them. Collections were always a bi-product of people who enjoyed reading them, and when that flipped in the late 80s/early 90s the market never really recovered. We also had an influx of speculator scumbags who came into comics after the bottom fell out of baseball cards.
I used to make decent money as a kid buying collections from the want ads and at flea markets and things. I borrowed the money from my dad the first few times, I'd buy a whole collection for pennies on the dollar (usually some parent who's kid moved out, trying to clear some space) take what I wanted, and sell the rest to local comic stores and managed to pay my dad back plus some profit and have enough money left over to buy another collection. This was pretty lucrative when you are 8-14 years old. I managed to always have money and had a collection of probably 5,000 books. When I was 18 I sold almost my entire collection to finance moving out of my parents house and I got ten times what I could have gotten for them even a year later. Since then I've probably rebought 80% of those comics that I sold, except I probably paid about 5% of what I originally paid for them.
For years I had about 10 copies of Amazing Spider-Man #129 and 10 copies of Giant Sized X-Men #1 that I got from buying collections. I'd sell one a year in the late 90s/00s and saw them steadily decline in value.
I used to make decent money as a kid buying collections from the want ads and at flea markets and things. I borrowed the money from my dad the first few times, I'd buy a whole collection for pennies on the dollar (usually some parent who's kid moved out, trying to clear some space) take what I wanted, and sell the rest to local comic stores and managed to pay my dad back plus some profit and have enough money left over to buy another collection. This was pretty lucrative when you are 8-14 years old. I managed to always have money and had a collection of probably 5,000 books. When I was 18 I sold almost my entire collection to finance moving out of my parents house and I got ten times what I could have gotten for them even a year later. Since then I've probably rebought 80% of those comics that I sold, except I probably paid about 5% of what I originally paid for them.
For years I had about 10 copies of Amazing Spider-Man #129 and 10 copies of Giant Sized X-Men #1 that I got from buying collections. I'd sell one a year in the late 90s/00s and saw them steadily decline in value.
03-21-12, 03:40 PM
#265
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
I assume this was the Spider-man comic one of the posters was referring to
03-21-12, 04:34 PM
#266
Banned
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
Yeah, that's it. McFarlane started on Amazing Spider-man around #290 or somewhere thereabout. He just did the art, but eventually he wanted to write as well, so Marvel gave him his own book to both write and draw. It ended up being complete shit. He was a great artist, but his writing was horrible.
03-21-12, 04:42 PM
#267
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
03-21-12, 04:47 PM
#268
Banned
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
Any industry, comics included, that doesn't build a customer base to replace those that outgrow it or for whatever reason leave it is going to have trouble and collectors and speculators aren't enough to sustain it. I haven't studied the industry or its finances but I'd bet that if it wasn't for the money that comic related movies have been bringing in the publishers would be in dire condition right now.
I believe it was Marv Wolfman who said that in the 1970s any title that sold less than 175,000 was immediately canceled. Most titles today do good just to break 100,000.
When DC relaunched last year, a few titles like Batman and Justice League broke 200,000 and that was considered to be amazing. In the 1970s that would have been on the verge of cancellation...
I think another problem with why many people don't want to get into comics is because the market is so oversaturated nowadays. There are no less than eight different Batman related books being published right now: Batman, Detective, The Dark Knight, Batman and Robin, Nightwing, Batwing, Batgirl, and Batwoman. A newcomer would find that just too daunting and not even bother with it. Price is another big issue. The price tag on comics has risen far faster than inflation. Every book is $3 now with some even as much as $4 for what is essentially a 20-page book. That's pretty ridiculous. If you want to read every Batman book, that is $24 a month just for Batman alone. Its really not uncommon for a person to spend $100 or more every month for comic books. The average person certainly isn't going to want to jump into such an expensive hobby.
03-21-12, 07:58 PM
#269
DVD Talk Legend & 2021 TOTY Winner
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
I stopped buying comics last year because I have 3 kids in diapers. On average, I was dropping about 50 bucks a week on the habit.
03-21-12, 09:13 PM
#270
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
When I stopped collecting back in 1995, comics were starting to creep up towards the $2 mark. I was dropping anywhere from $60-$80 a week. I don't regret getting out of it.
03-21-12, 09:44 PM
#271
Banned
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
Definitely.
Practically everything is collected in trade paperbacks nowadays. Almost everything is written as six-issue storyarcs for that reason now. You don't see many stories that are done in a single issue like in the olden days.
You can get trade paperbacks on Amazon for pretty cheap, sometimes up to half off cover price. It sucks not being able to support your local comic shop, but when single issues are $4 a pop there's not a whole lot you can do.
The downside to trade waiting is of course you have to wait six months to a year before the trade is released.
Practically everything is collected in trade paperbacks nowadays. Almost everything is written as six-issue storyarcs for that reason now. You don't see many stories that are done in a single issue like in the olden days.
You can get trade paperbacks on Amazon for pretty cheap, sometimes up to half off cover price. It sucks not being able to support your local comic shop, but when single issues are $4 a pop there's not a whole lot you can do.
The downside to trade waiting is of course you have to wait six months to a year before the trade is released.
03-21-12, 10:28 PM
#272
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Greenville, South Cackalack
Posts: 28,823
Received 1,882 Likes
on
1,238 Posts
03-21-12, 10:51 PM
#273
Banned
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
It began in 92 and ended in 93 to nitpick even further. 
The triangle shield number is 1993 - 2 which means it came out the second week of January 1993. Then of course there was the Funeral for a Friend, World Without A Superman, and Reign of the Supermen that went on through the rest of 93.
The triangle shield number is 1993 - 2 which means it came out the second week of January 1993. Then of course there was the Funeral for a Friend, World Without A Superman, and Reign of the Supermen that went on through the rest of 93.
03-21-12, 11:02 PM
#274
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Comic Book Men - New AMC reality show set in Kevin Smith's NJ comic shop
Too many crossovers is what I hated when I was into superhero comics. If I am into Fantastic Four, I don't want to have to buy a Hulk, Spiderman, X-Men or Avengers just to have the story. I know Marvel (DC probably also did it) was just trying to get people to start buying those other books but that just annoyed the crap out of me.
03-21-12, 11:04 PM
#275
DVD Talk Limited Edition