Lost -- "Recon" -- 3/16/10

[DarkestPhoenix]

Originally Posted by andy434343

Who said that Sawyer contracted herpes in the alternate time line? Maybe no one understood the joke because it was just a bit meh.....

It was more observational than "haha".

And he's still bangin' con men's wives while on the job, so I doubt he's more discerning about his poon.

[calhoun07]

Originally Posted by RTorres481

For some reason, I had a weird thought after watching this episode. It has been suggested that we have been seeing pieces of an alternate/non-Jacob/no crash/no island timeline. What if this is actually the original timeline? Maybe by the end of the series, something big will happen off the island in 2004 to create the actual timeline that we all know. Meanwhile, on the island, the war plays out and at the end there is a white flash. We're back on Oceanic flight 815 all expecting to see a repeat of the season opener - no island, no crash, etc. Instead, boom. The plane crashes and the series ends right back where it began.

I've been thinking about this some more and the main thing that doesn't sit right with me on this idea of the "flash sideways" being the original time line that, somehow for some reason, gets changed and resets or whatever (I am really trying to wrap my head around this concept)...

The thing that doesn't sit right with me is that when Jack is on the plane in 2004 at the beginning of season six he's noticing the scars he got while on the island. That suggests that what we are seeing is the reset time line.

Another thing that suggests this is the writers: they themselves said we would see what happened if the bomb went off and if it didn't go off. Where in your theory did the bomb go off or not go off? And if it didn't go off in your theory, the island would be underwater because the electromagnetic power would have never been sealed. If it went off in your theory and created the "Incident" then that meant the Losties, who in your scenario were not influenced by Jacob in this "original timeline," then how did the Losties get back to 1977 if they were never influenced by Jacob in the first place? There is some time paradox issues to work out here, which contradicts another thing the creators of the show promised: we are not going to be introduced to more mysteries this season but more answers.

[RocShemp]

Originally Posted by DarkestPhoenix

I assume he's talking about the knife Dogen gave Sawyer to stab Locke with. So, a room full of those "special" blades.

You mean the knife Dogen gave Sayid, right?

[DarkestPhoenix]

Whoops, yeah.

[andy434343]

Originally Posted by DarkestPhoenix

It was more observational than "haha".

And he's still bangin' con men's wives while on the job, so I doubt he's more discerning about his poon.

Well then, who ever said that herpes simplex existed in the alternate time line? It is possible that it the virus only existed in a world, where the island was not underwater. This is just an observational joke and not necessarily a "haha" joke. I am still on your team.

[DarkestPhoenix]

So, basically, a world without Jacob is a world without the herp.

I'm joining team Smoke Monster so I can go raw dog all the time in the new world.

[andy434343]

Originally Posted by DarkestPhoenix

So, basically, a world without Jacob is a world without the herp.

I'm joining team Smoke Monster so I can go raw dog all the time in the new world.

Well in most cases a condom will not help prevent herpes anyways, seeing as it has nothing to do with the transfer of bodily fluids, and it has everything to do with having any part of your skin coming into contact with a sore at any stage in its development on someone else's body. So if you have been using condoms in the hope of not getting herpes, you mind as well bang away raw dog anyways.......

So basically the odds are in your favor living in a world with or without Jacob......Now if you had lived in a world WITH Jacob AND he touched you, that would be a totally different matter and it would change everything. You would have to totally disregard my first paragraph.

[cracksky]

I think this war that Widmore talked about and is now on island for is all a McGuffin. I think something will happen between Widmore, Jacob, the MiB, Linus, Richard & the Candidates. I don't see them budgeting a full-scale war ala LotR. There might be some time-travel element involved. Or, Desmond/Penny/Aaron in a box.

The sideways flashes are a result of the bomb being detonated in 1977 thus showing us an alternate timeline off of the normal timeline that continues on to the present. Time is a straight line. In 1977, the bomb created a branch off of that line. That's what we are seeing in 2004. The underwater footage was, however, from 2007 in the normal timeline. They tricked us with that shot making us think it was part of the alternate timeline. You can clearly see the dilapidated Others' camp which could only have looked that way in 2007 after they abandoned it 3 years earlier.

I think the reason Jack is remembering the original timeline is because he dropped the bomb. It was his plan, following Faraday's.

I had said previously that I hadn't seen the smoke monster in the 1970's and thought maybe the incident had created it (or the bomb made it stronger) since the earliest it was on screen was 1988. Just realized that in LaFleur in S5 they already had the pylons up so they must've needed to keep it out then. Probably been around for hundreds of years if not more. That needs to be explained.

[andy434343]

Originally Posted by cracksky

I think this war that Widmore talked about and is now on island for is all a McGuffin. I think something will happen between Widmore, Jacob, the MiB, Linus, Richard & the Candidates. I don't see them budgeting a full-scale war ala LotR. There might be some time-travel element involved. Or, Desmond/Penny/Aaron in a box.

The sideways flashes are a result of the bomb being detonated in 1977 thus showing us an alternate timeline off of the normal timeline that continues on to the present. Time is a straight line. In 1977, the bomb created a branch off of that line. That's what we are seeing in 2004. The underwater footage was, however, from 2007 in the normal timeline. They tricked us with that shot making us think it was part of the alternate timeline. You can clearly see the dilapidated Others' camp which could only have looked that way in 2007 after they abandoned it 3 years earlier.

I think the reason Jack is remembering the original timeline is because he dropped the bomb. It was his plan, following Faraday's.

I had said previously that I hadn't seen the smoke monster in the 1970's and thought maybe the incident had created it (or the bomb made it stronger) since the earliest it was on screen was 1988. Just realized that in LaFleur in S5 they already had the pylons up so they must've needed to keep it out then. Probably been around for hundreds of years if not more. That needs to be explained.

Whats up with the serious post man? JK.....
I think that smoke monster has been there at least as long as Jacob, we just have yet to see too many instances in the past when he has been wreaking havoc. I have a feeling that he will go to town on the black rock folk real soon.

[calhoun07]

I really don't see what is so difficult to understand...



Two time lines? Multiple universes?

Sorry, but no...the bomb did NOT create two time lines. There is nothing we've seen within the confines of the TV show that justifies that theory. It's simple...the bomb DID go off. However, it didn't have the result Jack and the gang expected...it didn't destroy the island. It simply stopped the electormagnetic force from destroying the island. Thus the creation of the hatch, thus the need for radiation suits for several years following, thus the entire "incident" in the first place...and the whole chain of events that led up to the plane crash in 2004.

When there is a reset at the end of this season there will be no bomb to go off because in the reset our heroes get to live their lives without the influence of Jacob...he's DEAD...and Jack nor anybody else for that matter will take over for him. Jacob failed in his attempt to find a replacement. Because the bomb never goes off in this reset, the electormagnetic force destroys the island after they tap into it and causes the island to sink underwater. No island, no crash, lives lived normally and happily ever after for the most part.

And it's all one straight timeline.

[andy434343]

Originally Posted by calhoun07

When there is a reset at the end of this season there will be no bomb to go off because in the reset our heroes get to live their lives without the influence of Jacob...he's DEAD...and Jack nor anybody else for that matter will take over for him. Jacob failed in his attempt to find a replacement. Because the bomb never goes off in this reset, the electormagnetic force destroys the island after they tap into it and causes the island to sink underwater. No island, no crash, lives lived normally and happily ever after for the most part.

And it's all one straight timeline.

So if the electromagnetic force has the power to destroy and sink the whole island.........How are the cabins, pylons, swing set, and the statue's foot still structurally sound underwater?

By your theory (in which you seem to think that is 100 percent correct and easy to see and understand)..... the cabins, pylons, swing set, and the statue's foot would have been destroyed by such a force to sink an entire island. More than likely you are wrong, just because more than likely most theories are going to end up wrong. I no longer care for trying to come up with reasons to explain what and why everything is happening on Lost, I just sit back and enjoy it as it is told to me.

[Raul3]

[JuryDuty]

Originally Posted by calhoun07

I really don't see what is so difficult to understand...



Two time lines? Multiple universes?

Sorry, but no...the bomb did NOT create two time lines. There is nothing we've seen within the confines of the TV show that justifies that theory. It's simple...the bomb DID go off. However, it didn't have the result Jack and the gang expected...it didn't destroy the island. It simply stopped the electormagnetic force from destroying the island. Thus the creation of the hatch, thus the need for radiation suits for several years following, thus the entire "incident" in the first place...and the whole chain of events that led up to the plane crash in 2004.

When there is a reset at the end of this season there will be no bomb to go off because in the reset our heroes get to live their lives without the influence of Jacob...he's DEAD...and Jack nor anybody else for that matter will take over for him. Jacob failed in his attempt to find a replacement. Because the bomb never goes off in this reset, the electormagnetic force destroys the island after they tap into it and causes the island to sink underwater. No island, no crash, lives lived normally and happily ever after for the most part.

And it's all one straight timeline.

Calhoun07, the further we get into this season, the more I think you're dead-on with your explanations. I just reblogged your post on my blog giving credit where credit is due.

[Groucho]

I don't know how you can keep calling your theory "one timeline" when it's clearly two. But then again, you somehow think BTTF had one timeline so I suppose it's not worth arguing.

[Michael Corvin]

Originally Posted by calhoun07

Two time lines? Multiple universes?

Sorry, but no...the bomb did NOT create two time lines. There is nothing we've seen within the confines of the TV show that justifies that theory. It's simple...the bomb DID go off. However, it didn't have the result Jack and the gang expected...it didn't destroy the island. It simply stopped the electormagnetic force from destroying the island. Thus the creation of the hatch, thus the need for radiation suits for several years following, thus the entire "incident" in the first place...and the whole chain of events that led up to the plane crash in 2004.

When there is a reset at the end of this season there will be no bomb to go off because in the reset our heroes get to live their lives without the influence of Jacob...he's DEAD...and Jack nor anybody else for that matter will take over for him. Jacob failed in his attempt to find a replacement. Because the bomb never goes off in this reset, the electormagnetic force destroys the island after they tap into it and causes the island to sink underwater. No island, no crash, lives lived normally and happily ever after for the most part.

And it's all one straight timeline.

Good stuff.

[calhoun07]

Originally Posted by andy434343

So if the electromagnetic force has the power to destroy and sink the whole island.........How are the cabins, pylons, swing set, and the statue's foot still structurally sound underwater?

By your theory (in which you seem to think that is 100 percent correct and easy to see and understand)..... the cabins, pylons, swing set, and the statue's foot would have been destroyed by such a force to sink an entire island. More than likely you are wrong, just because more than likely most theories are going to end up wrong. I no longer care for trying to come up with reasons to explain what and why everything is happening on Lost, I just sit back and enjoy it as it is told to me.

It's just a working theory. I don't claim to be 100% correct, but the more I think about it the more I think it's the best fit for what I've seen so far.

As far as the structures being in tact under water... There is a theory floating around online that perhaps the island didn't actually sink but somehow the island jumped and left behind everything man made that was on the island, causing that stuff to sink in the water, which is what we saw at the beginning.

Which could work too...I could see that. The creators have let us know this season would wrap up the stories of their characters but that perhaps more stories could be told. Maybe they don't destroy the island...maybe the electromagnetic force just causes some kind of major reset of the wheel and when that happens the island jumps like we've seen it before...only leaving everything else behind.

[calhoun07]

Originally Posted by Groucho

I don't know how you can keep calling your theory "one timeline" when it's clearly two. But then again, you somehow think BTTF had one timeline so I suppose it's not worth arguing.

If Marty had managed to completely screw things up and his parents never were born and he ceased to exist that would have been the new reality for that timeline. I guess I am thinking when people say "two timelines" that there is somehow an implication that there is still a time where Marty lives with his family. And we've seen multiple timeline/universe stories in sci-fi before so that's what I take it as.

1955 became Marty's present. The one time line that Marty lived in all along would have ended for him in 1955 if he didn't manage to get his parents to kiss at the dance. There wouldn't be a universe where Marty still existed. If Marty disappeared then and ceased to be and Doc managed to get back to 1985 he would have found a Marty-less future. There was only one time line for Doc and Marty to travel in. It just turned out that Marty's dad became a successful author after Marty got involved in 1955, but I don't think for one minute there is another universe or timeline coexisting with that one where Marty's dad is still a loser. There is nothing in the movie suggesting otherwise.

[ATX]

didn't the show creator people say once that the show was gonna end on some explainable science realm based shit vs. some made up supernatural magical power shit

or did i dream that?

[spainlinx0]

Originally Posted by ATX

didn't the show creator people say once that the show was gonna end on some explainable science realm based shit vs. some made up supernatural magical power shit

or did i dream that?

I thought that was the plan in the first season. That seems long gone though.

[andy434343]

Originally Posted by calhoun07

It's just a working theory. I don't claim to be 100% correct, but the more I think about it the more I think it's the best fit for what I've seen so far.

As far as the structures being in tact under water... There is a theory floating around online that perhaps the island didn't actually sink but somehow the island jumped and left behind everything man made that was on the island, causing that stuff to sink in the water, which is what we saw at the beginning.

Which could work too...I could see that. The creators have let us know this season would wrap up the stories of their characters but that perhaps more stories could be told. Maybe they don't destroy the island...maybe the electromagnetic force just causes some kind of major reset of the wheel and when that happens the island jumps like we've seen it before...only leaving everything else behind.

Sounds possible....and I shouldn't have claimed that you were thinking you were 100 percent correct. I am just really hoping that none of us are correct in any of these theories, and we are all shocked when we finally get to see what's really going on.

[mhg83]

Originally Posted by cracksky

I had said previously that I hadn't seen the smoke monster in the 1970's and thought maybe the incident had created it (or the bomb made it stronger) since the earliest it was on screen was 1988. Just realized that in LaFleur in S5 they already had the pylons up so they must've needed to keep it out then. Probably been around for hundreds of years if not more. That needs to be explained.

The smoke monster appeared in season 5 episode where Jin meets Pregnant Russo and her french team was eaten by Smokey.

[DarkestPhoenix]

They also said specifically there would be no time travel. So, they're a bunch of fucking liars.

[andy434343]

Originally Posted by calhoun07

If Marty had managed to completely screw things up and his parents never were born and he ceased to exist that would have been the new reality for that timeline. I guess I am thinking when people say "two timelines" that there is somehow an implication that there is still a time where Marty lives with his family. And we've seen multiple timeline/universe stories in sci-fi before so that's what I take it as.

1955 became Marty's present. The one time line that Marty lived in all along would have ended for him in 1955 if he didn't manage to get his parents to kiss at the dance. There wouldn't be a universe where Marty still existed. If Marty disappeared then and ceased to be and Doc managed to get back to 1985 he would have found a Marty-less future. There was only one time line for Doc and Marty to travel in. It just turned out that Marty's dad became a successful author after Marty got involved in 1955, but I don't think for one minute there is another universe or timeline coexisting with that one where Marty's dad is still a loser. There is nothing in the movie suggesting otherwise.

I do look forward to the day when someone has the ability to travel through time with the intentions of causing a murder/suicide by only murdering someone like a parent or grandparent. Will we ever be able to ever know that this murder/suicide occurred? Or will it forever be labeled as just a murder, since the murderer caused his own death or lack of birth by killing an ancestor before he was born. The murder would clearly go unsolved since the murderer will cease to exist. Now I am starting to wonder about the unsolved murders that happen today. Possibly, all the unsolved murders are nothing more than time travelers with daddy or mommy issues.....

I feel that if you can travel through time, your present is whenever you travel to, and you cannot disappear based on killing your parent before you are born. You were already created in your past, and now you are in your present even though you are in the past from your perspective on time. So I feel you will continue to exist. But we will have to figure out how to time travel first before we can have the luxury of seeing if someone disappears based on their homicidal and suicidal behavior.

Richard Alpert’s Files: Confidential Island Intelligence: Scouting Report # 1: Team Smoke Monster: Sayid Jarrah

Spoiler:

[Groucho]

Originally Posted by calhoun07

I don't think for one minute there is another universe or timeline coexisting with that one where Marty's dad is still a loser. There is nothing in the movie suggesting otherwise.

Of course there is -- that's the universe Marty came from!

And even if that's not enough for you, the second movie gets much more explicit and shows the multiple timelines drawn on the board by Doc.

[DarkestPhoenix]

Which always bothered me. Why cry all about the paradoxes when he wrote on the board the existence of the multiverse?

The multiple worlds theory MUST exist if time travel is at all possible. What happened, happened. Everything that could possibly ever happen, happened.