Dollhouse -- "Instinct" -- 10/02/09

[ChrisHicks]

Originally Posted by RocShemp

The problem is that you can skip commercials on DVR/TiVo so the people who buy ad space (the only reason shows are on the air) aren't getting their money's worth. So if less people watch a show live, less companies are willing to buy ad space. And then the show gets cancelled.

My take on skipping commercials. Do they really make any money on me the viewer just by having my eyes see them? In a normal hour I can see 4-5 commercials for cars. I'm not in the market for a car so no dollars from me there. I can see another few for things like McDonalds or Pizza Hut and I don't eat at those places so nope, no money there either. Then again, I usually see a followup commercial about bankruptcy or debt consolidation after the car ads so go figure.

"Just lose your job? That new car payment dragging you down? Well, come on down to the Random Debt Consolidators Association and we'll wipe those payments out for you"

I figure in a few years we'll have targeted ads that we'll be forced to watch before our tvs even tune to anything so I'm getting my skipping out of the way now.

[Dr. DVD]

Originally Posted by RocShemp

Your story sounds better than mine. The last time I saw her, we were supposed to go see G.I. Joe (she's a big kid and she loved the heck outta The Dark Knight on our "date") but at the last minute she cancelled. She claimed classes were taking up her time (she's in law school) and then she went silent. Since she wasn't answering my calls I just stopped trying to keep in touch altogether. Recently I dropped her a line in FaceBook and she did reply.

At this point, I'm just looking to be friends because I know anything else would be a long wait for a train that wont come. Of course it sucks royally cos I really like her.



The problem is that you can skip commercials on DVR/TiVo so the people who buy ad space (the only reason shows are on the air) aren't getting their money's worth. So if less people watch a show live, less companies are willing to buy ad space. And then the show gets cancelled.



Well it fits the name of the show. And it's a much better picture than the quasi-Matrix promo shot that's now used to promote "virtual Echo".

Don't you just hate the silent treatment? Mine kind of got that way with me in the last two months, except she just placed large gaps of time between communication. I got tired of it and whenever I thought we were through she would call and want to do something like nothing ever happened. We were supposed to meet somewhere one night and I called asking her to contact me when she wanted to meet. She didn't call, and while I knew where she was going to be, I had a friend with me whom I didn't want to have to pay a cover charge for the club where she may or may not show up. We went somewhere else instead and I more or less washed my hands of her. She still e-mails me occasionally, but nothing else.

In terms of the DVR issue, I hope networks execs realize that this is the new trend and that just because a show doesn't garner live ratings doesn't mean nobody is watching it.

[Dr. DVD]

Originally Posted by ChrisHicks

My take on skipping commercials. Do they really make any money on me the viewer just by having my eyes see them? In a normal hour I can see 4-5 commercials for cars. I'm not in the market for a car so no dollars from me there. I can see another few for things like McDonalds or Pizza Hut and I don't eat at those places so nope, no money there either. Then again, I usually see a followup commercial about bankruptcy or debt consolidation after the car ads so go figure.

"Just lose your job? That new car payment dragging you down? Well, come on down to the Random Debt Consolidators Association and we'll wipe those payments out for you"

I figure in a few years we'll have targeted ads that we'll be forced to watch before our tvs even tune to anything so I'm getting my skipping out of the way now.

It might get like movie theaters, where they play 15+ minutes of ads before they even get to previews. I think it might get to where you get all the ads up front and then the whole program straight forward, but the catch will be you can't skip straight to he show.

I remember reading something interesting in a book about pro wrestling on TV that even when it was at its zenith (the late 90s), they had trouble selling ad space because they thought viewers were a bunch of rednecks who drove 15+ year old pick-ups and could barely afford to buy a bag of Doritos.

[RocShemp]

Originally Posted by Dr. DVD

Don't you just hate the silent treatment? Mine kind of got that way with me in the last two months, except she just placed large gaps of time between communication. I got tired of it and whenever I thought we were through she would call and want to do something like nothing ever happened. We were supposed to meet somewhere one night and I called asking her to contact me when she wanted to meet. She didn't call, and while I knew where she was going to be, I had a friend with me whom I didn't want to have to pay a cover charge for the club where she may or may not show up. We went somewhere else instead and I more or less washed my hands of her. She still e-mails me occasionally, but nothing else.

Yeah, I hate that BS. Especially when they then later one contact you as if no time had passed since last you spoke. Worse of all, once you do accept contact again and it seems like you got a stable line of communication again - poof - they're off the radar again.

In terms of the DVR issue, I hope networks execs realize that this is the new trend and that just because a show doesn't garner live ratings doesn't mean nobody is watching it.

They know people are watching. But they also know they're not watching the commercials. Remember, as far as TV studios are concerned (unless your HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc.), the shows are just there to get you to sit through the commercials.

Originally Posted by Dr. DVD

It might get like movie theaters, where they play 15+ minutes of ads before they even get to previews. I think it might get to where you get all the ads up front and then the whole program straight forward, but the catch will be you can't skip straight to he show.

I can see DVR/TiVo evolving in such a manner with a ton of forced commercials and trailers before you watch the show without any subsequent commercial interuption. If you watch it live, it'll probably be presented as it is today.

[OscarBluth]

Originally Posted by Dr. DVD

I was dating an older woman (only about five years though), and after a few months she started to get distant, then one evening I just wanted to go for a walk with her in a park so we could talk and then she could do her routine jogging. About an hour or so before we were to meet she invited some friends that I did not know. She proceeded to leave them to walk with me while she went off jogging. Granted, they were both cute girls, but I was interested in her, not them. A few weeks later we began to grow more and more apart until it just fizzled out and we got silent. The last time I saw her in the flesh was when I took her to see The Prestige one night, and she loved it....where were we again?

Would you like a treatment?

[OscarBluth]

Originally Posted by RocShemp

I can see DVR/TiVo evolving in such a manner with a ton of forced commercials and trailers before you watch the show without any subsequent commercial interuption. If you watch it live, it'll probably be presented as it is today.

That would have to be free, it's one of the main reasons (besides convenience of watching whenever) people have a DVR/TiVo. Comcast, or the TV network, does insert commercials at the beginning/middle of some shows in their On Demand library that I watch. You can easily FF through them, though.

No one's going to pay for a DVR if they can't skip commercials. If TiVo forces commercials into a recording, that not only takes up hard drive space on a DVR the customer owns, but other companies would pop up in a second offering a commercial-free alternative. And they couldn't do anything about PC-based DVR software.

[Dr. DVD]

Originally Posted by OscarBluth

That would have to be free, it's one of the main reasons (besides convenience of watching whenever) people have a DVR/TiVo. Comcast, or the TV network, does insert commercials at the beginning/middle of some shows in their On Demand library that I watch. You can easily FF through them, though.

No one's going to pay for a DVR if they can't skip commercials. If TiVo forces commercials into a recording, that not only takes up hard drive space on a DVR the customer owns, but other companies would pop up in a second offering a commercial-free alternative. And they couldn't do anything about PC-based DVR software.

MY argument exactly. I wish execs would realize that DVR and the such is the future or TV. The only way they can avoid it is if they buy out all DVR/TiVo licensing and suddenly make it unavailable, which I think borders on fascism.

[Thrush]

A bit early in the season to be breaking out the filler eps.

[Dr. DVD]

I think what TV execs need to do is a get a group of a series' core audience, bring them to the studios to just talk to them, and then based on these meetings decide if a show is worth keeping on the air.

[TallGuyMe]

Originally Posted by Dr. DVD

I think what TV execs need to do is a get a group of a series' core audience, bring them to the studios to just talk to them, and then based on these meetings decide if a show is worth keeping on the air.

based on the ratings, the premise, and those scifi fans who already jumped ship, the answer is simple. it's not. and in the end, Joss will blame the network suits, but in reality he's simply unleashed a turd on us all, that needs to be flushed away.

[Dr. DVD]

Originally Posted by TallGuyMe

based on the ratings, the premise, and those scifi fans who already jumped ship, the answer is simple. it's not.

Well, I just hope they let it finish out the remaining eps. I won't deny that this is subpar for a Whedon show. But if the goal is to make a show that people will watch live, best of luck.

[riley_dude]

This episode wasn't very impressive. If people are tuning in and seeing this, no wonder ratings are down.

[RocShemp]

Yeah, I don't get why they chose the second episode to be a filler episode. Shouldn't we have gotten at least 3 or 4 episodes dedicated to the main story arc before we got a filler episode?

[Dr. DVD]

I have to say, I think this series might have shot itself in the foot by starting the first season on such a suck a$$ note. I remember being ready to delete the show from my series recording list when I saw "Man on the Street" and everything got interesting.

[spainlinx0]

Well, I was disappointed. However, since I already defended the "glitch" stuff previously, I have to say this wasn't really an Echo glitch. It was an error on the part of Topher and his programming. He didn't take into account the physiological reaction and that a different wipe would be needed. I know some people consider it semantics, but even Topher took the blame in this episode.

Otherwise, I agree that the episode was really filler, and while Eliza showed a stronger than normal acting performance, it is still subpar. Millie was excellent though, and I was shocked that they didn't have her glitch in some way as well after bumping her head. Of course that could be an issue in the future of the show. Well, the imaginary future, since this series doesn't seem long for this world.

I guess Alpha is now giving secrets to the Senator as well. I know we all love Alexis Denisof, but they need to move that story along. Those scenes don't even look like they belong on the show at all. Very tacked on.

[Patman]

Denisof is starting to look like Eric McCormack.

[riley_dude]

From tvguidemagazine.com

Question: I'm curious about your thoughts on the latest episodes of Dollhouse. I'm a huge Joss Whedon fan, and personally give Buffy the Vampire Slayer my “Best Show of All Time” honors, but I've always found Dollhouse to be a frustrating, underwhelming, wildly inconsistent experience. It constantly ping-pongs from greatness (the unaired “Epitaph One”) to stunning mediocrity (the recent adventures of lactating, baby-crazy Echo). I also feel the show has many fascinating, squirm-inducing ideas at its core, but unlike every other Whedon series, it never takes enough time to explore them. It's all too content to play out like a stand-alone action hour most weeks, with Echo getting into wacky misadventures we'll never hear about again. I hate to say it, but I hope Fox sticks a fork in this ill-conceived series and allows Whedon, and his extremely talented cast, to move on to better projects. What do you think???—Don W

Matt Roush: Part of me wishes Dollhouse had been (to borrow a phrase from this column’s first question) a “limited-run” series that would have culminated in the outstanding “Epitaph One” episode (available on the DVD boxed set). Fox’s renewal was a surprise, and maybe it’s still possible for this show to make it to the end of its second 13 episodes (depending on DVR/streaming/download numbers), though lots of fans are nervously waiting for the shoe to drop. I know the loyal Whedon-ites will blame Fox for whatever doomsday scenario may occur, but I find the show to be at least as much at fault as the regrettable scheduling. While I find the premise provocative, I can’t say the first episodes of this season have blown me away. It’s not jelling for me, and besides ginormous plot holes I find hard to shrug off—I liked the twist that Ballard was the client in the season opener, but how was the target manipulated to fall in love and marry Echo, that sort of thing—it’s all coming off so far as dismayingly flat, with wildly uneven performances. I know I should care about the implications of Topher being able to manipulate the Actives on a "glandular" basis, but it's hard when you feel so little for the actual Actives. (When the best work so far has been turned in by Amy Acker, who sadly isn’t even a series regular, it’s not a great sign.) Anyone who’s read me for any length of time knows it pains me to be this critical of anything coming from the Whedon camp, and I’m still hoping some of the upcoming episodes (if they are allowed to air) will come closer to hitting the mark as several did toward the end of the first season (though none so audaciously as “Epitaph One”). I’m certainly not encouraging Fox to “put a fork” in it, given the investment so far. But I am disappointed, discouraged and not terribly hopeful.

[PHMustang2000]

Anyone know how the ratings are doing for this show?

[TallGuyMe]

Originally Posted by PHMustang2000

Anyone know how the ratings are doing for this show?

[riley_dude]

Yep. They are in the toilet. Time to bring Chuck back.

[Thrush]

I dont think Whedon honestly thought it would make it past one season.

[Dr. DVD]

Originally Posted by riley_dude

From tvguidemagazine.com

Question: I'm curious about your thoughts on the latest episodes of Dollhouse. I'm a huge Joss Whedon fan, and personally give Buffy the Vampire Slayer my “Best Show of All Time” honors, but I've always found Dollhouse to be a frustrating, underwhelming, wildly inconsistent experience. It constantly ping-pongs from greatness (the unaired “Epitaph One”) to stunning mediocrity (the recent adventures of lactating, baby-crazy Echo). I also feel the show has many fascinating, squirm-inducing ideas at its core, but unlike every other Whedon series, it never takes enough time to explore them. It's all too content to play out like a stand-alone action hour most weeks, with Echo getting into wacky misadventures we'll never hear about again. I hate to say it, but I hope Fox sticks a fork in this ill-conceived series and allows Whedon, and his extremely talented cast, to move on to better projects. What do you think???—Don W

Matt Roush: Part of me wishes Dollhouse had been (to borrow a phrase from this column’s first question) a “limited-run” series that would have culminated in the outstanding “Epitaph One” episode (available on the DVD boxed set). Fox’s renewal was a surprise, and maybe it’s still possible for this show to make it to the end of its second 13 episodes (depending on DVR/streaming/download numbers), though lots of fans are nervously waiting for the shoe to drop. I know the loyal Whedon-ites will blame Fox for whatever doomsday scenario may occur, but I find the show to be at least as much at fault as the regrettable scheduling. While I find the premise provocative, I can’t say the first episodes of this season have blown me away. It’s not jelling for me, and besides ginormous plot holes I find hard to shrug off—I liked the twist that Ballard was the client in the season opener, but how was the target manipulated to fall in love and marry Echo, that sort of thing—it’s all coming off so far as dismayingly flat, with wildly uneven performances. I know I should care about the implications of Topher being able to manipulate the Actives on a "glandular" basis, but it's hard when you feel so little for the actual Actives. (When the best work so far has been turned in by Amy Acker, who sadly isn’t even a series regular, it’s not a great sign.) Anyone who’s read me for any length of time knows it pains me to be this critical of anything coming from the Whedon camp, and I’m still hoping some of the upcoming episodes (if they are allowed to air) will come closer to hitting the mark as several did toward the end of the first season (though none so audaciously as “Epitaph One”). I’m certainly not encouraging Fox to “put a fork” in it, given the investment so far. But I am disappointed, discouraged and not terribly hopeful.

Pretty much my sentiments exactly. I hope the DVR/download numbers for this show encourages Fox to at least let it finish out this season. I agree that the eps. are too hit or miss to keep people interested. You never know when you tune in if you're going to get a great hour of TV or a steaming pile of crud with a few high points.
I don't really want to blame Eliza Dushku for some of the shortcomings, but she is a producer, and this show was developed by Fox with her in mind and she went to Whedon to get the premise. Because she was a friend and Whedon alum, he agreed, then apparently had the show more or less taken away from him creatively and we got the eps. we did at first. If you look at the the first five eps of season one, it really looks more like a vanity project of Dushku than anything else; she was trying to show off her acting range, of which she does not have much. I almost hit the ground laughing when I saw a preview for the ep. in which she would be a blind person, as this is the kind of maneuver often pulled by actors who want to show everyone how serious they are about the art (think "Simple Jack" if you've seen Tropic Thunder).

So in short, we really can't kick and scream too much if they pull the plug. I guarantee if this were written by anyone but Whedon and was doing the same numbers, it would have been yanked long ago.

[RocShemp]

I dunno. A standalone "Simple Echo" episode might make this whole season worthwhile.

[Ravenous]

This show makes me wonder how in the hell I found Firefly any good. I hate all his other crap, how did I like Firefly?

[Red Dog]

I bailed on this after the season premiere (where I was losing attention throughout), but then I never really liked it much in S1. Looks like I didn't miss much here.

Still pissed off that FOX cancelled her last show, Tru Calling, just as it was getting very interesting.