mdc3000

What? I didn't get that they've changed anything at all... all of this is happening because it HAPPENED. Ben has always had these same events happen in his childhood, so I'm pretty sure he's still going to gas all of Dharma. What indicates that anything in the past has changed the timeline?

GenPion

Remember in Season 4 when he said "I didn't make the call" on gassing Dharma in the Purge? I'm pretty sure he was telling the truth. It was always Charles Widmore who orchestrated the purge. And in the episode where Charlotte and Faraday went to stop the gas chamber from killing all of them on the island, the timer went to zero before Faraday was done entering whatever code he was attempting. They thought he stopped it somehow, but really there was no gas in there to kill them. "You think he wouldn't kill us all in a heartbeat?" -- or something like that, from Charlotte. She was wrong. He wouldn't. He may be a cold, dark, screwed up bastard sometimes -- see last night's example of him shooting Caesar. But he didn't cause all of this bad stuff to happen. Between Charles Widmore and Ben this show has chosen Ben as the right side of the war and as the one to be allowed to find redemption.

kaze0

I still don't understand why the others would have kept the Dharma funfest picture in their house after the purge. So I vote with the ffuture changed.

Palaver

Here's something I'm trying to work through...

What is really going on with Alex's appearance? When something similar happened before with Eko's brother, we all thought that smokey took his form. Which kinda works here, except smokey left the room before she appeared.

Obviously there is a connection between smokey and dead relatives walking around, but I'm just not 100% convinced that Alex/Yemi/Christian = smokey.

So, what if we are dealing with two different entities entirely? Going on Egyptian mythology, smokey could be Ammit, "the personification of divine retribution for all the wrongs one had committed in life" according to wikipedia.

The walking dead relatives could then be Anubis who "was the god to protect the dead and bring them to the afterlife." Anubis was portrayed on the hieroglyphics and Alex was very protective of Locke, who was dead.

Thoughts?

GenPion

Smokey "left the room" because it decided to not kill Ben. So, instead, it then took the form of Alex to deliver a warning and to order Ben to follow Locke. Smokey knows that Ben was planning a way to kill Locke because he felt threatened by him, and by the fact that the island had chosen him to lead over Ben. But Ben felt sorry for sins such as Alex dying and so he was allowed to live but only under Locke's orders. This was, to me, essentially like the island telling him he isn't wanted as a leader anymore because he's lost his way... it took pity on him. It did not take pity on Eko back in season 3 because he did not feel sorry for his sins and he did not regret the horrible choices he had made throughout his years prior to arriving on the island. Eko was punished.

Ben will have to find redemption eventually. I think he is definitely on that path now (at the end of the episode).

Palaver, I really do like your theories. I guess we'll see how that plays out. It seems like your on to something. Maybe Smokey represents both of these ideas somehow? I'm not really sure.

Draven

But "our" Ben remembers going to the temple to be healed. So Sayid shooting him happened even if he doesn't remember the actual shooting.

Oh, and what questions were answered in this episode? The only ones that I can think of is that Desmond beat up Ben and that Charles was banished from the island...which I didn't think were questions, just plot points.

tr0n

I like your theory, but not everyone the island has conjured up has been dead. We've seen Walt a couple times and presumably Juliet's shrink is also alive.

GenPion

Thanks for correcting me.

JohnSlider

That could easily be explained, the Others probably left everything inside the houses the same so they could easily leave without any trace if they had to.

GenPion

- How Ben took Alex
- If Ben Killed Penny
- Did Ben Know that Locke would be resurrected on the island
- Confirmation on Widmore as leader during the flashbacks and as a cruel and unsympathetic person willing to kill kids. Ben is a "good guy" between the two based on this episode.

I'm pretty sure there's more. In any case, I loved this episode.

DRG

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Leslie_Arzt

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Neil_%22Frogurt%22

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Regina

Palaver

Good point. Those two appearances you mentioned didn't really seem to have a smokey connection, though. I'm thinking mostly about Alex and Yemi whose appearance followed very similar patterns: appearing very close in time to a smokey appearance.

Palaver

I'm just feeling like it was significant that they showed smokey leaving the room.. to distinguish that there are two different entities at work here. Add to the fact that the hieroglyphics showed two different beings: Anubis being one and smokey (possibly Ammit) being another.

Again from the hallowed text of the wikipedia: "In the Ancient Egyptian underworld (known as Duat) hearts of the dead were weighed by Anubis against a feather from Ma'at's headdress. The hearts of those who were heavy with wrongdoing failed the test were given to Ammit for her to devour."

I think that is what we saw with Yemi and we saw again last night.

Wolf359

Everyone seems to be thinking the Anjira people are working for someone. I thought they were "infected" like Danielle's ship mates.

Pointyskull

But then where did the presumed stash of weapons - that were packaged in a gigantic airline shipping container - come from?

pinata242

I think they're just scared shitless. Something probably happened and they're (rightfully) assuming Frank, Sun, Ben, and Locke know more than they do. Reminds me of Charlie's line in The Pilot, "Guys... Where are we?".

"What's in the shadow of the statue" seemed like a legitimate question to me. Though it never occurred to me that it could be a "password" of sorts.

Could go either way.

Draven

1) OK, I guess. He walked into the tent and took Alex. I guess I didn't see that as anything special
2) Again...OK. But that wasn't really a question, just something hadn't shown us yet.
3) I think they've indicated before that Ben thought that Locke would be resurrected. A better answer would be what Christian is...since he was in the same situation as Locke. It would be weird if Locke was an actual resurrection and Christian was just some kind of ghost, since they both got to the island the same way.
4) Actually, Widmore DIDN'T kill kids. He ordered Ben to but couldn't do it himself. There's a difference.

I think my issue is that any answers we got were to relatively recent questions. I mean, we just found out that Widmore was on the island, Ben was beaten up only a few episode ago, etc.

I still want to have some idea of what the island is doing, I want to know why the creators said it could be explained with science and then introduced all this Egyptian mythology nonsense. I want to know why Walt was significant. I want to know what is happening with the fact that women can't get pregnant and deliver on the island. I want to know who is funding the Dharma Initiative. I want to know why the Others wore costumes when they confronted the Losties. I want to know about the four-toed statue. I want to know exactly what Smokey is and why it killed the pilot in the first episode, rather than "judging" him).

Those are just the questions they haven't answered over the course of the show in my head. I am less impressed when they answer a question they only raised a few episodes ago.

Sean O'Hara

When were they infected? They've only been on the island a couple days at most -- Danielle's crew took months to deteriorate. Plus they're on the small island, so it's highly unlikely that they've encountered Smokie.

GenPion

Me too. And the questions you raised are only touching on the surface of what needs to be answered. But I felt like they did answer some long standing questions that essentially deal directly with Ben, so I loved the episode. YMMV, of course. We have TONS of things that need to be answered before the show ends. The biggest question for me personally is why they took Walt back in season one.

Sean O'Hara

How would they know about the statue? And why was the plane carrying an arsenal?

Matthew Ackerly

These three weren't introduced like Caesar was. He was introduced to us like he was going to be a major player and we would learn about his past. So, it seems like a cheap shock tactic on the writer's part to kill him like that. Which leads me to believe he is not dead.

But, I get your point.

GenPion

Good questions.

pinata242

Again, this was at the time of viewing. It didn't occur to me that anything more sinister was going on. I guess I also didn't notice what was in the crate. But what's left of "the statue" is visible from the ocean - though it may not be on that side of the main island.

cracksky

In 2004, when Jin, Sayid and Sun saw the 4-toed foot of the statue they saw the front of it. Maybe there's something hidden in the shadow of it.

pinata242

That was basically my first thought but we know the statue isn't on the island these folks are on. And we don't know if they can even see it from their vantage.

So, more likely, they're another group of people with an agenda... That's getting a little old, imho. Ceasar was a douchebag, but if we accept that he was hired by someone to be there for a reason, it would explain why he was so adamant about being in charge.