Seinfeld syndication presented in "HD" format
#26
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#27
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#29
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Seinfeld syndication presented in "HD" format
I dont really understand your P & S comment but the new televised HD versions of Seinfled cannot be compared to pan and scan, "stretch o vision", or the 4:3 image zoomed in on. Seinfeld was shot so that the 4:3 was the primary picture, with enough over shoot to allow a 16:9 transfer to be made
Composition can be one thing, especially if the producers planned for it. However, the same thing happened with WS films, the filmmakers would shoot with extra space for eventual reframing to 4:3. They would even use the same P&S method as on Seinfeld, expanding in one direction slightly, while cropping in another direction.
Why can't we have both better picture quality and OAR? Just because it's in HD doesn't mean it needs to be 16:9 as well. It's "P&S for the masses" redux.
#30
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Seinfeld syndication presented in "HD" format
My Fox affiliate in the Philly area still shows Seinfeld with black bars to the side, but the TBS HD feed of Seinfeld is pretty good I have to say!
#31
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Re: Seinfeld syndication presented in "HD" format
From those pics, I think it certainly can be compared to P&S and the 4:3 image has been zoomed in on. The lower portion of the 4:3 image has been removed from the 16:9 P&S. George's legs have been cut off, and the fruit bowl on the table is on the very bottom of the frame now.
Composition can be one thing, especially if the producers planned for it. However, the same thing happened with WS films, the filmmakers would shoot with extra space for eventual reframing to 4:3. They would even use the same P&S method as on Seinfeld, expanding in one direction slightly, while cropping in another direction.
Why can't we have both better picture quality and OAR? Just because it's in HD doesn't mean it needs to be 16:9 as well. It's "P&S for the masses" redux.
Composition can be one thing, especially if the producers planned for it. However, the same thing happened with WS films, the filmmakers would shoot with extra space for eventual reframing to 4:3. They would even use the same P&S method as on Seinfeld, expanding in one direction slightly, while cropping in another direction.
Why can't we have both better picture quality and OAR? Just because it's in HD doesn't mean it needs to be 16:9 as well. It's "P&S for the masses" redux.
#32
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Seinfeld syndication presented in "HD" format
OK, this is a quick and horrible edit job, but I combined the two images previously posted of the 4:3 and 16:9 images:
The part bordered by red is the 16:9 image, clearly showing that image information has been cropped from the 4:3 image.
The part bordered by red is the 16:9 image, clearly showing that image information has been cropped from the 4:3 image.
#33
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Seinfeld syndication presented in "HD" format
Yes and you get extra info on the side. Seinfeld was shot on 35mm film. (Maybe Super 35?) It is common to frame a scene for both 4:3 television and some wider aspect ratio, be it 16x9 TV, 1.85:1 cinema, or even wider. Jay's example is very nice as you can see how the image was framed for both 16x9 and 4x3. (Fruit bowl and George's hand are both in-frame in 16x9, stools are just in frame for 4:3)
But keep arguing about it, it makes for good reading when I have nothing better to do.
But keep arguing about it, it makes for good reading when I have nothing better to do.
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#35
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Re: Seinfeld syndication presented in "HD" format
I think it's interesting (and perhaps even commendable) that the effort was made to expand the frame as much as possible, but compromise the top and bottom only when required so no set edges, crew, or any other elements that shouldn't be there become visible, unlike the season 2 ANGEL DVD set and UK Buffy DVD sets, where the frame was expanded without taking those things into consideration.
#36
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Re: Seinfeld syndication presented in "HD" format
still doesnt mean the image is zoomed buddy
#37
Senior Member
#38
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Seinfeld syndication presented in "HD" format
Films shot in WS have had the "shoot for one aspect ratio, but protect the other aspect ratio" strategy for years, but that doesn't seem to convince many that the 4:3 framing of WS films is a legitimate way to view them.
I think it's interesting (and perhaps even commendable) that the effort was made to expand the frame as much as possible, but compromise the top and bottom only when required so no set edges, crew, or any other elements that shouldn't be there become visible, unlike the season 2 ANGEL DVD set and UK Buffy DVD sets, where the frame was expanded without taking those things into consideration.
The WS image crops part of the image shown in the 4:3 version, much like pan & scanning of WS films can sometimes reveal more vertical image, but crop out horizontal image, especially the 4:3 reframings of Super35 films like Harry Potter 1 & 2 and the LOTR films.
http://plum.cream.org/HP/index.htm
http://dvd.ign.com/articles/366/366890p1.html
Just because it isn't a straight crop doesn't mean it's not comparable to P&S, or other 4:3 reframing methods.
Last edited by Jay G.; 02-08-09 at 12:07 PM.
#39
Senior Member
Re: Seinfeld syndication presented in "HD" format
I would prefer a pillar boxed HD version, but this is not a bad compromise. At least they are not stretching to fill the frame, that really irks me, and Food Network HD does some crazy thing where they stretch the sides more than the center of their 4x3 shows, so you can't even set your TV to view the image properly.
#40
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Re: Seinfeld syndication presented in "HD" format
Most of the people I speak with about P&S used to complain only because it appeared in the infancy of DVDs that many titles were being released in P&S only, and not also in the OAR. I (and many others) don't give a shit if someone else wants to watch a movie that fills their entire 4:3 screen as long as I have the option to purchase the OAR version. Anyone who seriously argues that it is not "legitimate" to watch a P&S version of film is a little too full of themselves.
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Re: Seinfeld syndication presented in "HD" format
Well I like 16x9 (and I am a stickler for OAR for movies and have been for coming up on 20 years now) because (and maybe it's just me) it makes Jerry's apartment look less "set-like."
#42
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Seinfeld syndication presented in "HD" format
Most of the people I speak with about P&S used to complain only because it appeared in the infancy of DVDs that many titles were being released in P&S only, and not also in the OAR. I (and many others) don't give a shit if someone else wants to watch a movie that fills their entire 4:3 screen as long as I have the option to purchase the OAR version.
With the DVD AR options, at least it's a consumer option to choose which way they want to view it. With TV broadcasts, Seinfeld is only being broadcast in HD in an altered aspect ratio, so an OAR enthusiast doesn't have the option to view the show in OAR in HD.
Anyone who seriously argues that it is not "legitimate" to watch a P&S version of film is a little too full of themselves.