The Final Sopranos - "Made in America" - 06/10/07 Part II (merged)
06-13-07, 01:56 AM
#76
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Hurray, hardercore! 
EDIT: For those wanting some cast reactions, an article from Entertainment Weekly about the cast screening for the final episode. Can't remember if this was already posted, but I don't think it was. I also bolded a part that might be relevant to the discussion:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20042147,00.html
EDIT: For those wanting some cast reactions, an article from Entertainment Weekly about the cast screening for the final episode. Can't remember if this was already posted, but I don't think it was. I also bolded a part that might be relevant to the discussion:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20042147,00.html
FAMILY GATHERING
Jamie-Lynn Sigler, Dominic Chianese, and other members of ''The Sopranos'' cast shared tears, hugs, and genuine surprise when they gathered together at the HBO headquarters in N.Y. to watch the finale
''I'm nervous! It's nerve-wracking!'' shouted Carl Capotorto (Little Paulie Germani) minutes before The Sopranos finale. Best known for sailing through a window thanks to an enraged Christopher in one of this season's spectacular fight scenes, Capotorto was atwitter on Sunday night. ''I just heard a rumor that the ending as they wrote it on the page may not be the full story,'' he said. ''We're going to find out right now.''
Capotorto joined fellow cast members, including Dominic Chianese (Uncle Junior), Jamie-Lynn Sigler (Meadow), Matt Servitto (Agent Harris), and other assorted wiseguys, at HBO headquarters in midtown Manhattan to address the press — and face The End. With reporters and camera crews begging them for hints, spoilers — anything — the actors did their best to sift through the chaos for each another, hugging, introducing families, and posing for their own snapshots. In the end, the only prediction anyone was willing to make was that the night would be unpredictable.
''I know what's going to happen, but I don't know all of what happens,'' said Dominic Chianese (Uncle Junior) refusing to reveal anything more — well, other than the fact that he's hung on to his character's trademark glasses: ''I have them right next to my pictures of my mother.'' When the final scene finally cut out to what's sure to go down in television history as Best Use of Black Screen (or the worst, depending on who you ask) the actors all held their breath until it was clear that the journey (and Journey) was over. ''I thought there was something wrong with the tape!'' Sharon Angela admitted afterward.
Either ''Made in America'' was the best episode of the series' six season run or the show is simply more entertaining when watched with at least a few Sopranos in attendance. The funny moments were funnier (the audience roared at the Christopher-fixated cat), the shocking scenes (think Phil Leotardo and the SUV run-in) were more gruesome, and the tension pitched sharper in a crowd of people who not only had read the script, but had actually been there. And yet they, like the rest of us, were just as blown away that no one was, well, blown away. Yes, they had been at the readings, even acted in the finale, but seeing as they were left in the dark on so many previous Sopranos shockers — Tony getting plugged by Uncle Junior and Adriana going on permanent vacation, chief among them — they were just as curious about creator David Chase's final ace.
''David did it to us once [with Adriana],'' Servitto laughed, ''I thought he'll do it to us again — he'll take off with a B camera and go off to the woods and whack everybody and not tell us.'' While Chase didn't go that far, Servitto did notice that a few moments were left on the cutting room floor.
''In the script, the scene in the diner went a little further,'' Servitto revealed. ''The gentleman sitting at the counter was much more mysterious, almost like he's walking to the table to shoot Tony, and then end of script.? But ultimately Servitto was happy with the way Chase edited the scene. ?I thought it was the perfect ending because it's never been linear,'' he said. ''He's kept so many endings on so many episodes wide open — people still ask me, 'Where's the Russian?' That's three seasons ago!''
While fan debate rages on, the cast was unanimous in their delight at the non-closure closure. ''I think he just created television history,'' pronounced Dan Grimaldi (Patsy Parisi). Sharon Angela seconded, ''I think the ending is David Chase at his finest... It's not typical predictable dumb s---... That's the brilliance of David Chase and what makes The Sopranos what it is.'' Everyone also agreed that the ending left the door to the multiplex wide open. ''I've always thought a made-for-HBO [movie] two or three years from now to check in with the characters would be wonderful,'' Servitto mused.
As one of the last Sopranos to cross the screen, Sigler had to take a timeout after watching the finale before she could talk. ''I broke down when I first came out [of the screening room],'' Sigler said. ''I need to wait a few days and then watch it again to enjoy it.'' Collected, she began to imagine the possibilities for her own career — Broadway, film, maybe even another TV show. As for Meadow, she has equally high hopes: Cross the Hudson in a few years to the land of Satriale's, AR-10s, and long-term therapy, and you just may find a new Soprano calling the shots.
''[Meadow] is talking about how she's not liking the way Italians are treated, and in some roundabout way...'' Sigler lets the possibility linger in the air, adding that one thing is for certain: ''If David is going to write it, then I'll be there.''
Jamie-Lynn Sigler, Dominic Chianese, and other members of ''The Sopranos'' cast shared tears, hugs, and genuine surprise when they gathered together at the HBO headquarters in N.Y. to watch the finale
''I'm nervous! It's nerve-wracking!'' shouted Carl Capotorto (Little Paulie Germani) minutes before The Sopranos finale. Best known for sailing through a window thanks to an enraged Christopher in one of this season's spectacular fight scenes, Capotorto was atwitter on Sunday night. ''I just heard a rumor that the ending as they wrote it on the page may not be the full story,'' he said. ''We're going to find out right now.''
Capotorto joined fellow cast members, including Dominic Chianese (Uncle Junior), Jamie-Lynn Sigler (Meadow), Matt Servitto (Agent Harris), and other assorted wiseguys, at HBO headquarters in midtown Manhattan to address the press — and face The End. With reporters and camera crews begging them for hints, spoilers — anything — the actors did their best to sift through the chaos for each another, hugging, introducing families, and posing for their own snapshots. In the end, the only prediction anyone was willing to make was that the night would be unpredictable.
''I know what's going to happen, but I don't know all of what happens,'' said Dominic Chianese (Uncle Junior) refusing to reveal anything more — well, other than the fact that he's hung on to his character's trademark glasses: ''I have them right next to my pictures of my mother.'' When the final scene finally cut out to what's sure to go down in television history as Best Use of Black Screen (or the worst, depending on who you ask) the actors all held their breath until it was clear that the journey (and Journey) was over. ''I thought there was something wrong with the tape!'' Sharon Angela admitted afterward.
Either ''Made in America'' was the best episode of the series' six season run or the show is simply more entertaining when watched with at least a few Sopranos in attendance. The funny moments were funnier (the audience roared at the Christopher-fixated cat), the shocking scenes (think Phil Leotardo and the SUV run-in) were more gruesome, and the tension pitched sharper in a crowd of people who not only had read the script, but had actually been there. And yet they, like the rest of us, were just as blown away that no one was, well, blown away. Yes, they had been at the readings, even acted in the finale, but seeing as they were left in the dark on so many previous Sopranos shockers — Tony getting plugged by Uncle Junior and Adriana going on permanent vacation, chief among them — they were just as curious about creator David Chase's final ace.
''David did it to us once [with Adriana],'' Servitto laughed, ''I thought he'll do it to us again — he'll take off with a B camera and go off to the woods and whack everybody and not tell us.'' While Chase didn't go that far, Servitto did notice that a few moments were left on the cutting room floor.
''In the script, the scene in the diner went a little further,'' Servitto revealed. ''The gentleman sitting at the counter was much more mysterious, almost like he's walking to the table to shoot Tony, and then end of script.? But ultimately Servitto was happy with the way Chase edited the scene. ?I thought it was the perfect ending because it's never been linear,'' he said. ''He's kept so many endings on so many episodes wide open — people still ask me, 'Where's the Russian?' That's three seasons ago!''
While fan debate rages on, the cast was unanimous in their delight at the non-closure closure. ''I think he just created television history,'' pronounced Dan Grimaldi (Patsy Parisi). Sharon Angela seconded, ''I think the ending is David Chase at his finest... It's not typical predictable dumb s---... That's the brilliance of David Chase and what makes The Sopranos what it is.'' Everyone also agreed that the ending left the door to the multiplex wide open. ''I've always thought a made-for-HBO [movie] two or three years from now to check in with the characters would be wonderful,'' Servitto mused.
As one of the last Sopranos to cross the screen, Sigler had to take a timeout after watching the finale before she could talk. ''I broke down when I first came out [of the screening room],'' Sigler said. ''I need to wait a few days and then watch it again to enjoy it.'' Collected, she began to imagine the possibilities for her own career — Broadway, film, maybe even another TV show. As for Meadow, she has equally high hopes: Cross the Hudson in a few years to the land of Satriale's, AR-10s, and long-term therapy, and you just may find a new Soprano calling the shots.
''[Meadow] is talking about how she's not liking the way Italians are treated, and in some roundabout way...'' Sigler lets the possibility linger in the air, adding that one thing is for certain: ''If David is going to write it, then I'll be there.''
Last edited by GreenVulture; 06-13-07 at 03:19 AM.
06-13-07, 08:46 AM
#77
DVD Talk Limited Edition
The ending worked for me. I had read many spoilers as I only watched it last night, but the level of tension was pretty high as you were expecting someone to get it. I actually like the fact that Chase left the conclusion to this story up to the viewer. I understand why so many people feel this was a cop out, but it worked for me.
For the record, I think Tony was just being hyperparanoid when the scene cut out.
For the record, I think Tony was just being hyperparanoid when the scene cut out.
06-13-07, 08:52 AM
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From Jim Berardinelli..........
The Fat Lady Sings
So, for fans of the long-running HBO mob drama, the fat lady has sung, but did she hit a low note or a high one?
By now, the controversy has boiled over, being discussed in front of water coolers, on the Internet, and on TV and radio talk shows. Today, it was almost impossible to go anywhere and not hear someone venting or otherwise giving an opinion about the suddenly infamous fade to black. (I pity those who recorded the show last night but have not yet watched it.) If nothing else, David Chase's unorthodox conclusion to his series has done for The Sopranos what nothing else has accomplished in years: brought it to the forefront of pop culture (if only briefly) and gotten people talking about it. If that was his goal (and it certainly was at least part of it), then he had succeeded.
How did I react?
First of all, I wasn't impressed by the majority of the episode. I thought it was anticlimactic, poorly focused, and an unfit way to bring to an end one of the most celebrated TV shows of the decade. Then came the final five minutes... Brilliantly conceived and executed, they set up two possibilities: a simple night out for the Soprano family or a bloodbath. Chase, who wrote and directed the episode, ratched up the tension slowly but surely by cutting back and forth between Tony, Carmela, and A.J. at the table and Meadow ineptly parking her car. The camera caught nefarious looking men all around the restaurant. The Meadow entered, Tony looked up, and it all went black, with the strains of Journey's "Don't Stop Believing" cutting off as suddenly as the final image vanished.
My initial reaction: WTF? A moment's stunned disbelief, then a chuckle. The more I thought about it, the more I loved what Chase did. The kind of cajones it requires to end something like that - forcing the audience down the "choose your own resolution" path and turning his back on closure. Surprising everyone. When you think about it, almost any ending would have been a letdown, so Chase elected an approach that no one could have predicted. Those who received an early publicity copy of the episode were convinced that the final minute had been excised from the DVD. But, no, that's how it ended.
I don't lean one way or another where Tony's future (or lack thereof) is concerned. Maybe he lives (un)happily ever after, paranoid but surrounded by his loved ones. Maybe he goes down in a hail of gunfire. The series is over. Many believe that Chase selected this ending to leave the door open for a movie. I don't accept that. I think this is as final as it gets. Even another future minute of The Sopranos would violate the ending and render it pointless and impotent. I'm willing to take Chase at his word when he says that Tony and his family will never again appear in any form, be it on the big or the small screen. (And, yes, Sean Connery did say "never again" before Never Say Never Again.)
Two titles came to mind in the near-term aftermath of Made in America (the episode's title): Blakes 7 and Limbo. The former, a British TV series that first aired in the late '70s and early '80s, came to a sudden and violent conclusion that left things shockingly unresolved. The latter, a John Sayles film from the '90s, cut off at a critical moment and left it to each viewer to decide how things would turn out. I loved the endings of both Blakes 7 and Limbo, but many did not. In fact, during the screening of Limbo, people in the audience threw things at the screen when the end credits began rolling. I have never seen such an explosive reaction before or since in that theater, regardless of the movie or the crowd.
We demand closure from our TV shows, books, and movies. We feel cheated without it. I can't say I don't understand the impulse (and I often agree with it), but there are instances when the decision to go another route feels right. It also takes courage. Had Chase elected to gun down Tony and his family at the restaurant, he would have taken a lot less heat today, but how would that have been interesting or different? We've seen it in The Godfather saga and countless other gangster films. That would have been the easy way out, the sell-out. Paradoxically, although it would have provided the greatly desired "closure," it would have made for a less memorable fade out.
There are many reading this who disagree with me. Violently. They feel betrayed by Chase and are angry at him and HBO. In a way, I am also irritated, but not by the ending. The Sopranos has been treading water for a while now, meandering pointlessly here and there. It has come back into its own during the last few weeks but can three or four solid episodes dispel the sense of staleness that has grown over the past three years? Chase's mistake was in taking HBO's money and keeping the show running past its expiration date. Made in America should have aired in 2004, not 2007. Thank god Battlestar Galactica is going off after one more season. It will be spared a similar fate.
I'm not going to defend my opinion of the show. People will like it or hate it, with few falling in between. I can understand both sides. Above all, however, I'm pleased that there's finally something to talk about with this program, and that it didn't slip away quietly. Rage, rage against the dying of the light... Watching 24 this year was akin to viewing the slow, inexorable deterioration of a good friend. That show's final episode only underlined the decay. The Sopranos chose another way out. Like it or hate it, you will not forget it.
The fat lady has sung. Can she get off the stage without being lynched?
The Fat Lady Sings
So, for fans of the long-running HBO mob drama, the fat lady has sung, but did she hit a low note or a high one?
By now, the controversy has boiled over, being discussed in front of water coolers, on the Internet, and on TV and radio talk shows. Today, it was almost impossible to go anywhere and not hear someone venting or otherwise giving an opinion about the suddenly infamous fade to black. (I pity those who recorded the show last night but have not yet watched it.) If nothing else, David Chase's unorthodox conclusion to his series has done for The Sopranos what nothing else has accomplished in years: brought it to the forefront of pop culture (if only briefly) and gotten people talking about it. If that was his goal (and it certainly was at least part of it), then he had succeeded.
How did I react?
First of all, I wasn't impressed by the majority of the episode. I thought it was anticlimactic, poorly focused, and an unfit way to bring to an end one of the most celebrated TV shows of the decade. Then came the final five minutes... Brilliantly conceived and executed, they set up two possibilities: a simple night out for the Soprano family or a bloodbath. Chase, who wrote and directed the episode, ratched up the tension slowly but surely by cutting back and forth between Tony, Carmela, and A.J. at the table and Meadow ineptly parking her car. The camera caught nefarious looking men all around the restaurant. The Meadow entered, Tony looked up, and it all went black, with the strains of Journey's "Don't Stop Believing" cutting off as suddenly as the final image vanished.
My initial reaction: WTF? A moment's stunned disbelief, then a chuckle. The more I thought about it, the more I loved what Chase did. The kind of cajones it requires to end something like that - forcing the audience down the "choose your own resolution" path and turning his back on closure. Surprising everyone. When you think about it, almost any ending would have been a letdown, so Chase elected an approach that no one could have predicted. Those who received an early publicity copy of the episode were convinced that the final minute had been excised from the DVD. But, no, that's how it ended.
I don't lean one way or another where Tony's future (or lack thereof) is concerned. Maybe he lives (un)happily ever after, paranoid but surrounded by his loved ones. Maybe he goes down in a hail of gunfire. The series is over. Many believe that Chase selected this ending to leave the door open for a movie. I don't accept that. I think this is as final as it gets. Even another future minute of The Sopranos would violate the ending and render it pointless and impotent. I'm willing to take Chase at his word when he says that Tony and his family will never again appear in any form, be it on the big or the small screen. (And, yes, Sean Connery did say "never again" before Never Say Never Again.)
Two titles came to mind in the near-term aftermath of Made in America (the episode's title): Blakes 7 and Limbo. The former, a British TV series that first aired in the late '70s and early '80s, came to a sudden and violent conclusion that left things shockingly unresolved. The latter, a John Sayles film from the '90s, cut off at a critical moment and left it to each viewer to decide how things would turn out. I loved the endings of both Blakes 7 and Limbo, but many did not. In fact, during the screening of Limbo, people in the audience threw things at the screen when the end credits began rolling. I have never seen such an explosive reaction before or since in that theater, regardless of the movie or the crowd.
We demand closure from our TV shows, books, and movies. We feel cheated without it. I can't say I don't understand the impulse (and I often agree with it), but there are instances when the decision to go another route feels right. It also takes courage. Had Chase elected to gun down Tony and his family at the restaurant, he would have taken a lot less heat today, but how would that have been interesting or different? We've seen it in The Godfather saga and countless other gangster films. That would have been the easy way out, the sell-out. Paradoxically, although it would have provided the greatly desired "closure," it would have made for a less memorable fade out.
There are many reading this who disagree with me. Violently. They feel betrayed by Chase and are angry at him and HBO. In a way, I am also irritated, but not by the ending. The Sopranos has been treading water for a while now, meandering pointlessly here and there. It has come back into its own during the last few weeks but can three or four solid episodes dispel the sense of staleness that has grown over the past three years? Chase's mistake was in taking HBO's money and keeping the show running past its expiration date. Made in America should have aired in 2004, not 2007. Thank god Battlestar Galactica is going off after one more season. It will be spared a similar fate.
I'm not going to defend my opinion of the show. People will like it or hate it, with few falling in between. I can understand both sides. Above all, however, I'm pleased that there's finally something to talk about with this program, and that it didn't slip away quietly. Rage, rage against the dying of the light... Watching 24 this year was akin to viewing the slow, inexorable deterioration of a good friend. That show's final episode only underlined the decay. The Sopranos chose another way out. Like it or hate it, you will not forget it.
The fat lady has sung. Can she get off the stage without being lynched?
06-13-07, 08:54 AM
#79
DVD Talk Legend
If they do a movie, I agree with the camp that it will more or less be an indirect prequel about the early days.
Should they do one that continues the story, then it should not come until a good five or so years from now. That way the whole deal with Tony and Carlo could be history, AJ could be into his film career, and Meadow could be a practicing attorney.
Should they do one that continues the story, then it should not come until a good five or so years from now. That way the whole deal with Tony and Carlo could be history, AJ could be into his film career, and Meadow could be a practicing attorney.
06-13-07, 10:02 AM
#81
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I've calmed down a little bit and watched the finale again last night and the final scene a few more times. I think ultimately, I'm not going to be in the David Chase is a genius camp, but I also won't be in the I hate David Chase camp. Part of my anger was that I guess Tony and the rest of the characters of The Sopranos were taken away from me so suddenly in a way I wasn't prepared for. I will miss Tony Soprano even though he has done so many things that I've hated him for. I kind of feel like I'll lost a friend that I met up with every Sunday night. The one good part of the sudden ending, is that we see James Gandolfini's Tony Soprano as the last shot, forever etched into our brains. You have to put Tony Soprano right up there with Archie Bunker as the most memorable tv character in American television history. It's been a fun ride, but now it's all over...
06-13-07, 10:20 AM
#82
The more I watch of the screen going black, the more I think it was a cheap stunt, and that is not what made The Sopranos great, they never needed any of that crap to sell the show.
I think if the camera panned away, and they are all eating, it says to the viewer, life goes on, Tony may go to jail, he may get shot, even tonight, or he may survive, but he will always live in paranoia that the scene truly shows as Tony eyes everyone in that restaurant.
David Chase got his headline and got everyone talking about the ending, so he succeeded in that respect, but 5-10 years from now, this ending will be more of a punchline whenever a show is at its final epsiode, "I hope they don't do a Sopranos ending!"
I think if the camera panned away, and they are all eating, it says to the viewer, life goes on, Tony may go to jail, he may get shot, even tonight, or he may survive, but he will always live in paranoia that the scene truly shows as Tony eyes everyone in that restaurant.
David Chase got his headline and got everyone talking about the ending, so he succeeded in that respect, but 5-10 years from now, this ending will be more of a punchline whenever a show is at its final epsiode, "I hope they don't do a Sopranos ending!"
06-13-07, 10:23 AM
#83
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Originally Posted by David Chase
I have no interest in explaining, defending, reinterpreting, or adding to what is there," he says of the final scene. "Anybody who wants to watch it, it's all there."
06-13-07, 10:29 AM
#84
DVD Talk Limited Edition
You guys need to check out today's Woot.com deal. 
Here's the text of the ad:
Printed In America
"Tommy Baritoni watched the photo print roll out of the HP Photosmart 3210 All in One Printer. Ah, that’s the stuff, he thought, admiring the full-color portrait of his favorite band in all their early-’80s glory, headbands, keytars, and all. They stopped making bands like Journey anymore, but I still believe. Tommy checked his watch and wondered where Marcela, Summer, and T.J. were. They were supposed to meet him here fifteen minutes ago.
Around him, the other customers of the Bloomfield Copy & Print Shop went about their business. They paid only casual attention to Tommy, unaware that here was the man who ran the largest hubcap-fencing ring in East Jersey. Nice little all-in-one printer, scanner, and copier they got here, Tommy mused. Prints without a PC thanks to the memory card reader and PictBridge USB port. Fast, too – 32 ppm black and 31 ppm color. I oughtta get one for Club Fuggetaboutit, have the girls put ‘em on the glass and sell the printouts. He filed the enterprising idea away until next week.
Just then, a guy in a suit stepped through the copy shop door and seemed to look right at Tommy – or did he? For a terrifying second, Tommy wondered if the guy was with the Dotatello family, or maybe was working for those Syrians that Tommy had ratted out to the FBI. As the suit moved up to the counter to pick up a printing order, Tommy tried to shrug off the anxiety that haunted him. No matter how forcefully he commanded his mind to think pleasurably about the HP Photosmart 3210 All in One Printer, he couldn’t shake this cloud of impending doom. He found no comfort in its built-in slide/negative adapter, dust and scratch removal, and advanced copying features. For some reason he couldn’t put his finger on, it felt like everything was about to come to a sudden, inexplicable, unsatisfying end.
Tommy eased a bit as Marcela and T.J. came through the door, the electronic sensor in the door bleeping as they did. Through the plate glass window, he saw Summer by the bicycle rack outside, struggling with the padlock on her bike. “Hey, Dad, want some Funyons?,” T.J. asked, extending the yellow cellophane bag. Tommy plucked out a Funyon, watching Summer finally clasp the padlock shut and walk toward the copy shop door. He pecked Marcela on the cheek and wiped away the stray Funyon crumbs his lips left there. The electronic door sensor bleeped again. Tommy looked up and"
Here's the text of the ad:
Printed In America
"Tommy Baritoni watched the photo print roll out of the HP Photosmart 3210 All in One Printer. Ah, that’s the stuff, he thought, admiring the full-color portrait of his favorite band in all their early-’80s glory, headbands, keytars, and all. They stopped making bands like Journey anymore, but I still believe. Tommy checked his watch and wondered where Marcela, Summer, and T.J. were. They were supposed to meet him here fifteen minutes ago.
Around him, the other customers of the Bloomfield Copy & Print Shop went about their business. They paid only casual attention to Tommy, unaware that here was the man who ran the largest hubcap-fencing ring in East Jersey. Nice little all-in-one printer, scanner, and copier they got here, Tommy mused. Prints without a PC thanks to the memory card reader and PictBridge USB port. Fast, too – 32 ppm black and 31 ppm color. I oughtta get one for Club Fuggetaboutit, have the girls put ‘em on the glass and sell the printouts. He filed the enterprising idea away until next week.
Just then, a guy in a suit stepped through the copy shop door and seemed to look right at Tommy – or did he? For a terrifying second, Tommy wondered if the guy was with the Dotatello family, or maybe was working for those Syrians that Tommy had ratted out to the FBI. As the suit moved up to the counter to pick up a printing order, Tommy tried to shrug off the anxiety that haunted him. No matter how forcefully he commanded his mind to think pleasurably about the HP Photosmart 3210 All in One Printer, he couldn’t shake this cloud of impending doom. He found no comfort in its built-in slide/negative adapter, dust and scratch removal, and advanced copying features. For some reason he couldn’t put his finger on, it felt like everything was about to come to a sudden, inexplicable, unsatisfying end.
Tommy eased a bit as Marcela and T.J. came through the door, the electronic sensor in the door bleeping as they did. Through the plate glass window, he saw Summer by the bicycle rack outside, struggling with the padlock on her bike. “Hey, Dad, want some Funyons?,” T.J. asked, extending the yellow cellophane bag. Tommy plucked out a Funyon, watching Summer finally clasp the padlock shut and walk toward the copy shop door. He pecked Marcela on the cheek and wiped away the stray Funyon crumbs his lips left there. The electronic door sensor bleeped again. Tommy looked up and"
06-13-07, 10:39 AM
#85
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But when Chase says "Anybody who wants to watch it, it's all there," to me it's an indication that SOMETHING happened in that final scene, and that the ending wasn't just "life goes on." Because that wouldn't be "all there." Plus, several episodes throughout the series have ended with scenes of family members eating, those calm-after-the-storm, "life goes on" kinda endings.
This one was completely different. I'm convinced Tony is dead, and Carmela and AJ most likely too. Also, look at Tony's last action, just before the cut to black: his hand moves quickly from the jukebox down to his side and starts back up again. I believe he was instinctively reaching for his gun (and not a quarter to play another song.)
How 'bout the final conversation about remembering "the times that were good," as AJ reminds Tony. Not the times that ARE good, but "were."
And the onion rings cannot be overlooked (and to anyone who does, you probably overlooked the ducks and the meat and the bear and the asbestos too over the years). To me, the rings placed on the tongues represent viaticum, or when the Eucharist is given to a Catholic who is dying or in real danger. The Latin word translates as "provisions for a journey." Journey!
I believe that Chase saved the most shocking killing of the entire series for the very last second, but didn't give us the satisfaction -- or the finality -- of seeing it (pissing off those viewers who found the whackings the only interesting parts of the past few seasons' episodes -- viewers Chase never liked anyway.)
This ending was too carefully constructed, too meaningful in its banality, that it has to be crucial to the story Chase told.
This one was completely different. I'm convinced Tony is dead, and Carmela and AJ most likely too. Also, look at Tony's last action, just before the cut to black: his hand moves quickly from the jukebox down to his side and starts back up again. I believe he was instinctively reaching for his gun (and not a quarter to play another song.)
How 'bout the final conversation about remembering "the times that were good," as AJ reminds Tony. Not the times that ARE good, but "were."
And the onion rings cannot be overlooked (and to anyone who does, you probably overlooked the ducks and the meat and the bear and the asbestos too over the years). To me, the rings placed on the tongues represent viaticum, or when the Eucharist is given to a Catholic who is dying or in real danger. The Latin word translates as "provisions for a journey." Journey!
I believe that Chase saved the most shocking killing of the entire series for the very last second, but didn't give us the satisfaction -- or the finality -- of seeing it (pissing off those viewers who found the whackings the only interesting parts of the past few seasons' episodes -- viewers Chase never liked anyway.)
This ending was too carefully constructed, too meaningful in its banality, that it has to be crucial to the story Chase told.
06-13-07, 10:46 AM
#86
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Originally Posted by ASAPadam
This ending was too carefully constructed, too meaningful in its banality, that it has to be crucial to the story Chase told.
06-13-07, 10:55 AM
#87
DVD Talk Legend
Interesting blurb from IMDB:
SPOILER ALERT: Rocker Steve Perry refused to let The Sopranos creator David Chase use his classic song "Don't Stop Believin'" in the mob show's final scene until he knew the fate of the drama's leading characters. The ex-Journey frontman kept Chase waiting until three days before the long-awaited finale aired in America on Sunday. Perry is a huge Sopranos fan and feared his 1981 rock anthem would be remembered as the soundtrack to the death of James Gandolfini's character Tony Soprano - until Chase assured him that wouldn't be the case. Perry says, "The request came in a few weeks ago and it wasn't until Thursday that it got approval, because I was concerned. I was not excited about (the possibility of) the Soprano family being whacked to 'Don't Stop Believin''. Unless I know what happens - and I will swear to secrecy - I can't in good conscience feel good about its use." And Perry was so true to his word, he didn't even tell his family the song featured in the finale. He adds, "I didn't want to blow it. Even my wife didn't know. She looked at me and said, 'You knew that and you didn't tell me?'"
SPOILER ALERT: Rocker Steve Perry refused to let The Sopranos creator David Chase use his classic song "Don't Stop Believin'" in the mob show's final scene until he knew the fate of the drama's leading characters. The ex-Journey frontman kept Chase waiting until three days before the long-awaited finale aired in America on Sunday. Perry is a huge Sopranos fan and feared his 1981 rock anthem would be remembered as the soundtrack to the death of James Gandolfini's character Tony Soprano - until Chase assured him that wouldn't be the case. Perry says, "The request came in a few weeks ago and it wasn't until Thursday that it got approval, because I was concerned. I was not excited about (the possibility of) the Soprano family being whacked to 'Don't Stop Believin''. Unless I know what happens - and I will swear to secrecy - I can't in good conscience feel good about its use." And Perry was so true to his word, he didn't even tell his family the song featured in the finale. He adds, "I didn't want to blow it. Even my wife didn't know. She looked at me and said, 'You knew that and you didn't tell me?'"
06-13-07, 10:56 AM
#88
DVD Talk Legend
I believe that for most people that are ticked it is not because every loose end wasn't tied up or that there was no finality. Very few people expected that. People are ticked because Chase used an amateurish gimmick for the last moments that ended up (intentionally or not) coming off as a big FU to the audience and leaving that sour taste as the final memory of the show.
And Tony did not die, nor did anyone else in the last scene. Chase's comments make that abundantly clear, which only makes the way he presented it even more insulting.
And Tony did not die, nor did anyone else in the last scene. Chase's comments make that abundantly clear, which only makes the way he presented it even more insulting.
06-13-07, 10:59 AM
#89
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The ending is something TV viewers (myself included) are just not familiar with -- it went against everything we've come to expect from our television. But Chase never wanted us to get comfortable -- he never liked that we befriended Tony, a homicidal, pathological crime boss. But we did. So he took him away from us in the harshest way possible. Seeing him gunned down by a random diner patron, seeing him breathing his last breaths, would have been "easier" for us to accept, but not true to the way Chase wanted to tell the story.
And if he wanted to represent sudden death, what better way is there to do it? What better way is there to make the viewer feel the shock of it?
And if he wanted to represent sudden death, what better way is there to do it? What better way is there to make the viewer feel the shock of it?
06-13-07, 11:10 AM
#90
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by bunkaroo
And Perry was so true to his word, he didn't even tell his family the song featured in the finale. He adds, "I didn't want to blow it. Even my wife didn't know. She looked at me and said, 'You knew that and you didn't tell me?'"
It also made it sound like they had approval weeks ahead of time to use the song.
It would be nice to get clarification.
I also find it amusing how in one part is says Perry refused to let it be used if it were to be set to Tony getting whacked yet is later on it says he swore to secrecy on the ending.
Edit: Fine...I dug for it!
http://www.comcast.net/entertainment...11/686898.html
Cain, who wrote the song with Perry and Neal Schon, didn't know how it would be used when they agreed to the licensing. Cain kept the fact that it was going to be in at all a secret, then watched the episode with his family.
"I didn't want to blow it," he told The Associated Press on Monday. "Even my wife didn't know. She looked at me and said, `You knew that and you didn't tell me?'"
Last edited by Nefarious; 06-13-07 at 11:21 AM.
06-13-07, 11:35 AM
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http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/156.../journey.jhtml
If you were surprised by the "Sopranos" series-ending cliffhanger, just imagine how show creator David Chase was feeling just days before the finale aired: He still had not received permission to use Journey's "Don't Stop Believin' " in the show's controversial final scene.
"The request came in a few weeks ago and it wasn't until Thursday that it got approval, because I was concerned," revealed former Journey singer Steve Perry on Tuesday (June 12). Perry and former bandmates guitarist Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain had to agree on the use of the song in the show, and though Perry said the trio don't agree on much, the "Sopranos" denouement was one of the few times since Perry left the band in 1998 that the guys have shaken hands on something unanimously.
But first, Perry made Chase an offer he couldn't refuse: He insisted on knowing what happens to the Soprano clan before signing off (see " 'Sopranos' Creator David Chase Talks About Finale, Denies 'Trying To Blow People's Minds' " and "How Will 'Sopranos' Meet Its End? Silvio And Bobby Aren't Talkin' ").
"I was not excited about [the possibility of] the Soprano family being whacked to 'Don't Stop Believin'," said Perry, who watched the show with glee Sunday night and again on Monday. "I told them, 'Unless I know what happens — and I will swear to secrecy — I can't in good conscience feel good about its use.'" The show's producers made Perry promise to keep it under his lid, which he did, and then they spilled the beans on how the song was used and how the show ends, after which Perry signed off.
Interestingly, Cain — who wrote the song with Perry and Schon — told The Associated Press that he didn't know how it would be used when they agreed to the licensing. He kept the fact that the song would be used in the show a secret even from his family.
"I didn't want to blow it," he told AP. "Even my wife didn't know. She looked at me and said, 'You knew that and you didn't tell me?' "
"I can hardly put in words how good it makes me feel, to be honest with you," said Perry about the pivotal role the song played, jokingly adding that he's not nearly as "reclusive" as MTV News made him sound in a story that ran on Monday (see " 'Sopranos' Is Latest To Keep The Faith In Journey's 'Don't Stop Believin' ' ").
"There's nothing more in my lifetime that I wanted than to be part of a band that wrote the kind of music we did when we were together. ... When I saw ['The Sopranos'] last night, what I saw was the director pull back into the foundation that was there all along during the most important moment when all this chaos [is going on]. The song was, literally, cutting from lyric to lyric, from mother to son to James [Gandolfini] at the key moment and on [the lyric] 'streetlight people,' it pulls back with the cameras to reveal a streetlight and I said, 'My God, this director [Chase] got it. He got the song!' "
When told that Chase revealed to the New Jersey Star-Ledger that "Don't Stop" was the only song he wanted all along for the show capper, Perry said he wasn't surprised. "I felt he must have heard the song enough that he wrote something that fit the lyrics," Perry said. "The whole thing blew my mind."
I know this was just posted, but the comcast link didn't work for me and this is where i originally read it.
If you were surprised by the "Sopranos" series-ending cliffhanger, just imagine how show creator David Chase was feeling just days before the finale aired: He still had not received permission to use Journey's "Don't Stop Believin' " in the show's controversial final scene.
"The request came in a few weeks ago and it wasn't until Thursday that it got approval, because I was concerned," revealed former Journey singer Steve Perry on Tuesday (June 12). Perry and former bandmates guitarist Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain had to agree on the use of the song in the show, and though Perry said the trio don't agree on much, the "Sopranos" denouement was one of the few times since Perry left the band in 1998 that the guys have shaken hands on something unanimously.
But first, Perry made Chase an offer he couldn't refuse: He insisted on knowing what happens to the Soprano clan before signing off (see " 'Sopranos' Creator David Chase Talks About Finale, Denies 'Trying To Blow People's Minds' " and "How Will 'Sopranos' Meet Its End? Silvio And Bobby Aren't Talkin' ").
"I was not excited about [the possibility of] the Soprano family being whacked to 'Don't Stop Believin'," said Perry, who watched the show with glee Sunday night and again on Monday. "I told them, 'Unless I know what happens — and I will swear to secrecy — I can't in good conscience feel good about its use.'" The show's producers made Perry promise to keep it under his lid, which he did, and then they spilled the beans on how the song was used and how the show ends, after which Perry signed off.
Interestingly, Cain — who wrote the song with Perry and Schon — told The Associated Press that he didn't know how it would be used when they agreed to the licensing. He kept the fact that the song would be used in the show a secret even from his family.
"I didn't want to blow it," he told AP. "Even my wife didn't know. She looked at me and said, 'You knew that and you didn't tell me?' "
"I can hardly put in words how good it makes me feel, to be honest with you," said Perry about the pivotal role the song played, jokingly adding that he's not nearly as "reclusive" as MTV News made him sound in a story that ran on Monday (see " 'Sopranos' Is Latest To Keep The Faith In Journey's 'Don't Stop Believin' ' ").
"There's nothing more in my lifetime that I wanted than to be part of a band that wrote the kind of music we did when we were together. ... When I saw ['The Sopranos'] last night, what I saw was the director pull back into the foundation that was there all along during the most important moment when all this chaos [is going on]. The song was, literally, cutting from lyric to lyric, from mother to son to James [Gandolfini] at the key moment and on [the lyric] 'streetlight people,' it pulls back with the cameras to reveal a streetlight and I said, 'My God, this director [Chase] got it. He got the song!' "
When told that Chase revealed to the New Jersey Star-Ledger that "Don't Stop" was the only song he wanted all along for the show capper, Perry said he wasn't surprised. "I felt he must have heard the song enough that he wrote something that fit the lyrics," Perry said. "The whole thing blew my mind."
I know this was just posted, but the comcast link didn't work for me and this is where i originally read it.
Last edited by Elpresidentepez; 06-13-07 at 11:39 AM.
06-13-07, 11:36 AM
#92
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by coli
The more I watch of the screen going black, the more I think it was a cheap stunt, and that is not what made The Sopranos great, they never needed any of that crap to sell the show.
I think if the camera panned away, and they are all eating, it says to the viewer, life goes on, Tony may go to jail, he may get shot, even tonight, or he may survive, but he will always live in paranoia that the scene truly shows as Tony eyes everyone in that restaurant.
I think if the camera panned away, and they are all eating, it says to the viewer, life goes on, Tony may go to jail, he may get shot, even tonight, or he may survive, but he will always live in paranoia that the scene truly shows as Tony eyes everyone in that restaurant.
The people who were paranoid were the VIEWERS. Tony Soprano was not.
06-13-07, 11:48 AM
#93
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by ASAPadam
This one was completely different. I'm convinced Tony is dead, and Carmela and AJ most likely too. Also, look at Tony's last action, just before the cut to black: his hand moves quickly from the jukebox down to his side and starts back up again. I believe he was instinctively reaching for his gun (and not a quarter to play another song.)
06-13-07, 11:52 AM
#94
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by rennervision
I agree with your interpretation. But if it's true, my biggest gripe is the way it was executed. (Executed - ha!) At the very best, I still feel the cut to black was sloppy editing. I don't think sloppy editing should be praised as "genius." And because it's sloppy, it gives Chase an opportunity to be a coward and not reveal the true ending he thinks is "all there."
das
06-13-07, 11:55 AM
#95
Originally Posted by sracer
Panning the camera away would be fine if it was supposed to be a "life goes on" ending. But that's not what happened. Watch that last scene again. Tony is NOT paranoid. Tony isn't fearful as each patron enters through the door. He waiting for his family to show up.
The people who were paranoid were the VIEWERS. Tony Soprano was not.
The people who were paranoid were the VIEWERS. Tony Soprano was not.
06-13-07, 12:02 PM
#96
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Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
Did his hand go "back, and to the left"?
(Also, you just reminded me that the episode three before this was called "Kennedy and Heidi.")
06-13-07, 12:23 PM
#99
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Originally Posted by das Monkey
Even if people think the final cut was a dickish move, the editing is some of the best work I've seen in a television episode in quite some time.
There are editing techniques that work: A fade to black. A dissolve. A moment where the action freezes. Then there's the kind that don't: The new "WTF - who turned off the TV?!" technique.
That was something I would have expected if the end credits read "Edited by Andy Kaufman."
06-13-07, 12:23 PM
#100
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Originally Posted by das Monkey
I've been mildly critical of the final cut to black, simply because it is a gimmicky way to get people talking about the finale after it airs when the thematic point could have been achieved in a less "look how awesome I think I am" manner, but I think it's fair to say that the editing throughout that final sequence is absolutely brilliant. From when Tony steps into the shop, every frame is perfectly constructed, right down to AJ talking over the muffled lyric "in south Detroit" to maintain the feeling that this song was written for no other purpose than to define this single moment in time. Even if people think the final cut was a dickish move, the editing is some of the best work I've seen in a television episode in quite some time.
das
das
Totally agree, it was the first thing I posted in this thread. Regardless of how anyone feels about the ending (even though I dug it) the artistry involved in ractcheting up the tension in that scene was genius. I can't recall the last time I was so exhausted by 3 minutes of television.
-Doc
