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The Final Sopranos - "Made in America" - 06/10/07 Part II (merged)

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The Final Sopranos - "Made in America" - 06/10/07 Part II (merged)

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Old 06-09-08, 01:28 AM
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In honor of the one-year anniversary, a blogger has put up what should be the definitive word on this finale, or at least the final scene. His points are very hard to refute. It's well thought out and well supported with examples from previous episodes and excerpts from David Chase interviews. I'm still absorbing it -- it's a freakin' long article.

The Definitive Explanation of "The End"

Please feel free to post your thoughts on the explanation.


I think there are so many well written and well supported things in it, it's hard to pick one excerpt. I did especially like the last paragraph of Part I :
Spoiler:
Another popular argument against the idea that Tony was killed in the final scene is that Chase would have shown MOG shoot Tony if he wanted us to believe that Tony died. After all, any death of a major character on the show has always been explicitly shown to the audience. However, Tony is not just any other character on the show. The viewer has been primarily following his story and has been inside Tony‘s head. Tony Soprano may be the most famous gangster in television and film history. Millions of fans have wondered what his death would “look like”. For this reason Chase cannot kill him in a cliché manner. A quick bullet to the head just does not work for Chase’s purposes. It is not an ending worth the character. We have also seen Tony shot on two previous occasions. Consequently, Chase crafted a way to show Tony’s death without showing anything explicit. More importantly, he avoided any of the cliché’s of a gangster’s on screen death. He created something no one could have predicted, a POV sequence that puts the viewer in Tony’s eyes at the moment that he is shot. David Chase had no interest in showing Tony dead and bloody and his family screaming in horror. Besides, David Chase already showed you what this would look like just a few scenes before when Phil Leotardo is killed right in front of his family. Instead, Chase creates a jarring cut to black through Tony’s eyes that is far more satisfying intellectually and emotionally. More importantly, it has never been done before and could not be predicted by anyone upon the first viewing. It is one of the great deaths in cinematic history. It is the anti-Scarface ending. Instead of a bullet ridden corpse we get to experience death as Tony would experience it. Tony Soprano and “us” never saw it coming

Last edited by Decker; 06-09-08 at 01:37 AM.
Old 06-09-08, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Decker
In honor of the one-year anniversary, a blogger has put up what should be the definitive word on this finale, or at least the final scene. His points are very hard to refute. It's well thought out and well supported with examples from previous episodes and excerpts from David Chase interviews. I'm still absorbing it -- it's a freakin' long article.

The Definitive Explanation of "The End"

Please feel free to post your thoughts on the explanation.
Pretty amazing article, very in-depth (but in desperate need of paragraph breaks) and pretty much convinced me.

What still ticks me off is that, if that's what he meant the ending to be, that Chase doesn't just confirm it instead of being the coy "artiste." But maybe that's just me...
Old 06-09-08, 10:48 AM
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While I didn't read the whole article, that is only way I can honestly interpret the ending. Any other interpetation feels like a cheat to me.
Old 06-09-08, 10:48 AM
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I can't listen to that Journey song without thinking of the "ending" to this show.
Old 06-09-08, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by uteotw
What still ticks me off is that, if that's what he meant the ending to be, that Chase doesn't just confirm it instead of being the coy "artiste." But maybe that's just me...
Chase is a very brilliant but weird and stubborn guy. He never says much in interviews. I think the most we'll ever get out of him is "It's all right there", and as such, this blogger does a fine job supporting that position.
Old 06-09-08, 12:28 PM
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I thought I recalled reading an interview with Chase where he says Tony isn't dead, but that he does live paranoid not knowing about his future. I really think the fact that this is STILL being debated on further reinforces Chase's genius. Both interpretations can work depending on what POV you look at it from. Unless Chase states it explicitly no one will ever know for certain.
Old 06-09-08, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by uteotw
What still ticks me off is that, if that's what he meant the ending to be, that Chase doesn't just confirm it instead of being the coy "artiste."
Because 1) Any artist worth his salt won't validate any one interpretation of his art, and 2) If HBO throws $10 million bucks at him, he can have Tony live again.
Old 06-09-08, 02:17 PM
  #233  
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Originally Posted by KillerCannibal
I thought I recalled reading an interview with Chase where he says Tony isn't dead, but that he does live paranoid not knowing about his future.
A comment I'm sure Chase will want to resurrect now that he's seen the box office grosses of "Sex and the City".
Old 06-09-08, 03:39 PM
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I remember him saying at one time that he wouldn't rule out a film, but if he did it would happen (temporally) before the finale. That makes sense, because so many cast members have been killed off. You can't suddenly intoduce a new crew and expect the audience to care. Besides, I'm pretty convinced Tony is dead.
Old 06-09-08, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
A comment I'm sure Chase will want to resurrect now that he's seen the box office grosses of "Sex and the City".
I was always under the impression he was going to do this anyways. But even if he doesn't that was a great ending to a great show.

I strive to be like Chase when I write stuff...the man has a ton of talent. I hope he eventually does another show...now that would be awesome.
Old 06-10-08, 01:44 AM
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I just wanna throw this out there.... I live on the same street as the diner the last scene was shot in.
Old 06-10-08, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by vwbeetlvr
I just wanna throw this out there.... I live on the same street as the diner the last scene was shot in.
What I want to know is...how are the onion rings there?

Okay, what I don't get is how SO many people know nothing about a little thing called 'closure'. Look back to the first fucking episode of this show and you have it.

In the first ep, there was a 'cleansing'. People were getting whacked left and right and then there were Feds closing in on everyone. Tony even thought he may get killed or indicted. THAT'S the point. THAT'S life as a gangster.

No matter who you are, or where you are, there is the possibility of death or imprisonment. I think that was the point of the final scene. His fate is the same as it was initially: Tony is not safe, and may face either, at any moment, just as the sitch was in the genesis of the series.

Thus, the end and the beginning are the same, hence, closure.

But if Lost has taught me anything, it's that everything is uncertain unless you see it on film, and even then, it's suspect.

Jin is alive, dammit.
Old 06-10-08, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by boogieman03
I can't listen to that Journey song without thinking of the "ending" to this show.
It's always gonna be the 'Love Theme From Monster' to me.


Apart from dream sequences, the show has always been very straightforward. When the simplest thing can be what happens, that is what happened. I still believe that Adriana is dead and the Russian guy expired in the snow. Just because we never actually saw either one doesn't mean that the writers were being cute or artsy.

My take on it is that the show stopped at the exact moment that Chase wanted to stop showing us what was happening. WHY that specific moment was chosen is the question, and there are a limited number of possible reasons why. Either Tony's dead or he's dead to us in the audience; either way, it's the same end result.

Or else, maybe HBO could only afford to buy the right to half a Journey song and that's why it stopped in the middle.
Old 06-10-08, 03:30 PM
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I never saw Butch & Sundance die, so I'm going to assume they made it out of Mexico unharmed.
Old 06-10-08, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by vwbeetlvr
I just wanna throw this out there.... I live on the same street as the diner the last scene was shot in.
And I live right behind the gas station where Phil got whacked.
Old 06-10-08, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkestPhoenix
What I want to know is...how are the onion rings there?
To die for.
Old 06-10-08, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by boogieman03
I can't listen to that Journey song without thinking of the "ending" to this show.
I'll always think of the '05 White Sox.
Old 06-10-08, 04:16 PM
  #243  
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Originally Posted by rabbit77
I'll always think of the '05 White Sox.
Funny side note: I was in an 80's cover band during the 2005 season, and we were hired to play outside US Cellular for Mullet Night. And yes we did most definitely play "Don't Stop Believin'"!

Last edited by bunkaroo; 06-10-08 at 04:18 PM.
Old 06-10-08, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Decker
I never saw Butch & Sundance die, so I'm going to assume they made it out of Mexico unharmed.
And I believe Thelma and Louise's car landed safely in a large, deep lake at the bottom of the canyon.
Old 06-10-08, 04:18 PM
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Didn't someone with a menu from "Holsten's" show they didn't even serve onion rings?
Old 06-10-08, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bunkaroo
Funny side note: I was in an 80's cover band during the 2005 season, and we were hired to play outside US Cellular for Mullet Night. And yes we did most definitely play "Don't Stop Believin'"!
I've seen Hairbangers Ball 20+ times
Old 06-10-08, 05:25 PM
  #247  
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Originally Posted by GuessWho
I've seen Hairbangers Ball 20+ times
My ex-drummer is in that band. If you happened to see them at Durty Nellie's in March, I was in the opening band (Queensryche tribute).

Sorry for the derail all....
Old 06-10-08, 11:39 PM
  #248  
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Originally Posted by bunkaroo
Didn't someone with a menu from "Holsten's" show they didn't even serve onion rings?
And Tony Soprano isn't a real person!
Old 06-11-08, 08:27 AM
  #249  
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Originally Posted by bunkaroo
Didn't someone with a menu from "Holsten's" show they didn't even serve onion rings?
http://www.holstens.com/
Old 06-11-08, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Numanoid
And Tony Soprano isn't a real person!
Duh. It had more to do at the time with figuring out if the "onion rings" meant something.

Oh well, looks like they have 'em anyway. Maybe they just put them on the menu after last summer.


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