The Contender 3/20/05

[Dabaomb]

New, Sunday! An unexpected loss. A surprising change in the game.

I think that tonight is the Najai episode since they are doing a tribute for him

[Gil Jawetz]

Boy, that interview with Najai was kind of hard to watch.

[Mopower]

Originally Posted by Gil Jawetz

Boy, that interview with Najai was kind of hard to watch.

Ya, I'm starting to like him too. Seems like a good guy. Seems like the last guy that would want to kill himself.

[Dabaomb]

I think that I just saw 50 Cent in the crowd.

[astrochimp]

Somehow i was hoping that Najai had won even though knowing what the "final" outcome for him was i knew it wasnt to be

[Dabaomb]

Najai wasn't too smart with his fighter selection. He's only 5'5" and he chose probably the tallest fighter out there. Najai is more muscular than anyone but his short arms were his downfall.

[Gil Jawetz]

Damn.

[thelwig14]

I think the show is still strong but one of the downfalls to it was not using heavyweights.

[Joeboo835]

Originally Posted by thelwig14

I think the show is still strong but one of the downfalls to it was not using heavyweights.

My brother and I were talking about this also. I don't know much about boxing, but I imagine that they didn't go with heavyweights due to liability reasons AND because it probably takes them longer to recover after a fight (I imagine they do a lot more damage to each other). Then again, i have no idea what i'm talking about, so i might be very wrong.

[Josh H]

Heavyweight fighting sucks most of the time. I'd rather watch middleweights any day of the week. Most are two slow, spend too much time holding etc. Especially among lesser heavyweights which is what you get on a show like this. I'd much rather see the smaller, faster, more athletic middleweights pound it out for 5 rounds.

[thelwig14]

Originally Posted by Joeboo835

My brother and I were talking about this also. I don't know much about boxing, but I imagine that they didn't go with heavyweights due to liability reasons AND because it probably takes them longer to recover after a fight (I imagine they do a lot more damage to each other). Then again, i have no idea what i'm talking about, so i might be very wrong.

It depends, but usually it takes the lighter guys longer to recover. The reason is that they just lay into each other and throw more punches per round. The punches add up because they do not have knockout power. It will not surprise me if there is not a knockdown during the entire series.

[thelwig14]

Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle

Heavyweight fighting sucks most of the time. I'd rather watch middleweights any day of the week. Most are two slow, spend too much time holding etc. Especially among lesser heavyweights which is what you get on a show like this. I'd much rather see the smaller, faster, more athletic middleweights pound it out for 5 rounds.

Regardless of preference, heavyweights are the most popular fighters and many viewers are immediately turned off by anything other than heavyweights. The ratings would be better with heavyweights and the five rounds would be a lot more fair for heavyweights than middleweights.

[Slayer2005]

I don't watch this show, but every hardcore boxing fans knows the heavyweight division is probably the worst division in boxing right now.

Also, it's not true that heavyweights are the most popular fighters in boxing (not right now I mean). Who in the HW division out there besides Mike Tyson can sell a PPV fight? Nobody.

Dela Hoya & Trinidad can. Also, recently Miguel Cotto's fight (lightweight, although he outweighed his opponent by 17 pounds come fight night and still almost got KO'd with a single shot) was the highest rated HBO Boxing After Dark in a long time.


Aside from a couple of fighters, the HW division is not in good shape. Only ignorance of the sport would turn someone off because the fighters aren't HWs. Show them a John Ruiz fight and I bet they'll change their tune quickly. lol

[thelwig14]

Originally Posted by Slayer2005

I don't watch this show, but every hardcore boxing fans knows the heavyweight division is probably the worst division in boxing right now.

Also, it's not true that heavyweights are the most popular fighters in boxing (not right now I mean). Who in the HW division out there besides Mike Tyson can sell a PPV fight? Nobody.

Dela Hoya & Trinidad can. Also, recently Miguel Cotto's fight (lightweight, although he outweighed his opponent by 17 pounds come fight night and still almost got KO'd with a single shot) was the highest rated HBO Boxing After Dark in a long time.


Aside from a couple of fighters, the HW division is not in good shape. Only ignorance of the sport would turn someone off because the fighters aren't HWs. Show them a John Ruiz fight and I bet they'll change their tune quickly. lol

Check out the top 20 pay per views of all-time and they are all heavyweights (except for De La Hoya). You are missing the point. For the show to be successful, it has to appeal to the largest audience. And that audience consists mostly of viewers that are not hardcore boxing fans and they would prefer to watch a heavyweight over a middleweight. The top rated Friday Night Fights are all heavyweight related. So, your hardcore boxing fans that understand the Heavyweight division is not at its strongest as it has been cannot contain enough viewers for the show to be successful.

In reference to selling pay per views, when the 4 belts get unified (most likely by Klitschko), pay per views will increase with a recognized champion for the heavyweight division(ie Hopkins, Johnson, etc.). As a huge boxing fan, I agree with you about Ruiz (and Brewster and Byrd). I would rather watch a WNBA game than watch Ruiz molest another fighter for 12 rounds and win a bs decision.

In reference to ignorance of the sport, it does not matter because you are not trying to appeal to the hardcore boxing fans that understand this (hence the heavy editing of the fights). Regardless of any argument that can be presented, heavyweights will always be the biggest draw for boxing and it is the easiest magnet to attract non-boxing fans. The general person grew up on and can name and recognize on Marciano, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Tyson, Holyfield, etc. This audience cannot rattle off other divison greats as easily (they could name Sugar Ray but would not know Hearns or even Hagler).

[Patman]

Well, from a costs perspective, heavyweights would not be the way to go as a $1 million payday probably wouldn't net you good heavyweights for the show.

I had forgotten that Najai was the one who offed himself last month, and it made the ending one that really hit home. Sad stuff.

[her34]

they all bring their kids to the fight. it's as if they are required to, which would be messed up...

[Bill Needle]

I had been DVRing these shows and hadn't gotten around to watching them until tonight. I watched all 4 episodes back-to-back. I was prepared not to like this show, but I am in for the haul. Much more entertaining than I expected.

Heavyweights would not be as entertaining in this format. And no one can name 3 heavyweights anymore anyway. Most people can't name 1 (unless you still consider Tyson a legitimate fighter). These aren't the old days.

[thelwig14]

Originally Posted by Bill Needle

I had been DVRing these shows and hadn't gotten around to watching them until tonight. I watched all 4 episodes back-to-back. I was prepared not to like this show, but I am in for the haul. Much more entertaining than I expected.

Heavyweights would not be as entertaining in this format. And no one can name 3 heavyweights anymore anyway. Most people can't name 1 (unless you still consider Tyson a legitimate fighter). These aren't the old days.

Once again, you are assuming everyone else watching the show or the general public can rattle off names of middleweights. Regardless of what you feel about the current heavyweight division, heavyweights are what the general public understands and what they are drawn to. And, the 5 round format is better for heavyweights due to the possibility of knockout. The general public does not understand the "sweet science" of boxing and want to see knockouts. Five rounds are not beneficial to middleweights because they do not have knockout power and there fights are more likely to go the distance. There are undefeated and great record fighters in every division all across the world. The Contender could have used any division regardless of final payday. Only a few of the fighters on the Contender are true contenders (in a record and fight quality standpoint) and they could have used any division.

[Patman]

I don't think they'd get 10 minutes of good footage in a 5 round heavyweight fight each week because of all that hugging that heavyweights do.

[Bill Needle]

Originally Posted by Patman

I don't think they'd get 10 minutes of good footage in a 5 round heavyweight fight each week because of all that hugging that heavyweights do.

That's exactly my point. There's more movement and punching in one round of middleweight boxing than 5 rounds of heavyweight boxing. So if you go in knowing nothing about fighters in either class, you would enjoy the middlewights much more. Most any casual or non-fan of boxing who tunes in would not miss the heavyweights.

[Fok]

Damm I missed the last episode where Ahmed fought that smart ass guy, when did they air?

[Bill Needle]

Originally Posted by Fok

Damm I missed the last episode where Ahmed fought that smart ass guy, when did they air?

I thought Ahmed was the smartass guy? And Ishe beat Ahmed on the episode that aired 8 days ago.

[Fok]

Was the fight between Ishe and Ahmed a good one? did they leave on good terms with one another?

[Bill Needle]

Originally Posted by Fok

Was the fight between Ishe and Ahmed a good one?

Yes and no. You could tell they wanted to take each other's head off, but it was a bit sloppy. The comments afterwards were to the effect that Ahmed was a lot of flash and took big shots, but didn't have the experience and skills to match Ishe.

Originally Posted by Fok

did they leave on good terms with one another?

Not particularly. Ahmed was in complete denial, and Ishe was loving the fact that he sent that punk home. But then, Ahmed was going home to an extremely fine looking girlfriend.

Ishe is very Christian, but I was reminded of Joe Frazier before a fight in Madison Square Garden with Ali where Frazier prayed, "Please Lord, help me to kill this man, because he is not righteous."

[Fok]

Thanks Bill Needle!