Carnivale Pilot Episode - Page 3

Buck Turgidson · 09-17-03, 12:34 AM

According to the (generally dismissive) review in People , it's scheduled to be a 12 episode maxi-series. Whether HBO and the creators would want to continue beyond that is anybody's guess, and beyond my ken.

Maybe Sophie/Clea could read the cards and tell us

Incidentally, I know I might be all alone on this, but I think Clea's very, very sexy

smokedragon · 09-17-03, 04:10 AM

The first episode intrigued me enough to want to watch the second.

BoatDrinks · 09-17-03, 11:29 AM

13 episodes. All HBO series are 13 episodes. 13 is a "season" on HBO.

All 13 Carnivale's have been filmed, cut and are waiting to air.

das,
Re: the pilot thing. What you are referring to (the 20 minute thing) is what's called a "presentation." This was something that came into vogue a few years with the studios as a way to develop more pilots - lower costs - so instead of shooting 10 pilots one year, they can shoot 8 pilots and say, 5 presentations.

Carnivale was NOT a presentation, but many network shows were: Judging Amy, Joan of Arcadia, L&O Criminal Intent, C.S.I., ED....

das Monkey · 09-17-03, 11:45 AM

• Quoth BoatDrinks •
das,
Re: the pilot thing. What you are referring to (the 20 minute thing) is what's called a "presentation." This was something that came into vogue a few years with the studios as a way to develop more pilots - lower costs - so instead of shooting 10 pilots one year, they can shoot 8 pilots and say, 5 presentations.

Please fogive my confusion here. A "presentation" is the increased pilot method that Warren Littlefield claims credit for, right? Is a presentation not also a pilot? If not, what would the first Buffy "pilot" be called? It was only half an hour and wasn't completely scored, but it's what they used to sell the idea. Then the first thing that aired was a much longer version of the same story but completely reshot with some different actors and some effects changes. Are they both pilots? Is one a pilot and the other a presentation? Or is one a pilot and the other simply a series premiere?

I guess what confuses me is that it seems like a lot of overlapping terminology. For example, if I'm a badass and come to a studio with a series idea (nothing filmed, just scripts), and they say, "Great, here's a contract for 22 episodes. Go make the show." The first episode isn't a pilot then, is it? (I know that's not likely, but I'm trying to narrow down the terminology).

You probably have better things to do than read this post.

das

BoatDrinks · 09-17-03, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by das Monkey
If not, what would the first Buffy "pilot" be called? It was only half an hour and wasn't completely scored, but it's what they used to sell the idea. Then the first thing that aired was a much longer version of the same story but completely reshot with some different actors and some effects changes. Are they both pilots? Is one a pilot and the other a presentation? Or is one a pilot and the other simply a series premiere?

A presentation is not considered a pilot because it's not a full episode. For most 1 hour dramas, a presentation will be anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes.

I have no idea what happened with Buffy. Sounds like a presentation, and since it was Fox, probably so. As far as "selling the idea" - the idea was sold before anything was shot. Fox wanted to do a series version of the movie. Joss then wrote a script that was approved for shooting (I'm assuming approved for a presentation) and then they shot it. The network then looks at the presentation (not a pilot because it's not full length) and decides to put it on the air.

At this point they go back in and reshoot what they don't like in the presentation (hiring new actors, if need be) as well as shooting the remaining scenes to make it a full 1 hour story. That final version - KNOWN AS THE PILOT - is what aired on FBC. The show is given a green light for 13 episodes, then the network waits for ratings and feedback before deciding to pick it up for what it known as "the back 9" - the remaining 9 episodes to make a full 22 episode season. Note: most all shows that get cancelled within the first 13 episodes had 13 episode "pick ups" or orders, but they didn't make it. It would be very, very rare for a show to not have an order of at least 13 for the fall schedule. Most midseason shows are picked up for 6 episodes.

Quote:

For example, if I'm a badass and come to a studio with a series idea (nothing filmed, just scripts), and they say, "Great, here's a contract for 22 episodes. Go make the show." The first episode isn't a pilot then, is it? (I know that's not likely, but I'm trying to narrow down the terminology).

You're right - this would never happen.

But as far as the industry is concerned, yes that first episode would still be considered the pilot, even though there was already a full season guarantee. It's just semantics. Means nothing.

DEK and some others have had 6,13, and even full season guarantees for shows, but that first episode is still considered and called the pilot. It may not be technically correct but that's the business.

das Monkey · 09-17-03, 01:36 PM

• Quoth BoatDrinks •
You're right - this would never happen. But as far as the industry is concerned, yes that first episode would still be considered the pilot, even though there was already a full season guarantee. It's just semantics. Means nothing.

DEK and some others have had 6,13, and even full season guarantees for shows, but that first episode is still considered and called the pilot. It may not be technically correct but that's the business.

Thank you. That's pretty much the answer I was looking for, and I'm glad I have that cleared up in my mind. I've never been able to fit the functional definition of the word "pilot" with the apparent usage of the word. I've been foolishly holding onto the literal definition of the word (just like I refuse to ever use "same difference" or "irregardlessly" in a sentence) when the industry has a much more liberal (no pun intended) interpretation of its meaning.

Anyway, thanks for clearing all that up for all of us. I'm not sure I agree with it, but like you say, that's the business. Just to further bother you, when a show makes a 2-hour telefilm that actually airs with the hopes that positive feedback will lead to a series (for example Babylon 5, which wanted 5 years, but aired a 2-hour telefilm to test the waters), is the telefilm a pilot? And if they decide to go forward with an actual series a year later, does the first episode of that series also become a pilot? Alos, if Chuck Yeager comes to my house for dinner ... oh, nevermind.

das

BoatDrinks · 09-17-03, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by das Monkey
(just like I refuse to ever use "same difference" or "irregardlessly" in a sentence)

Thank God. One of my pet peeves: people who use words that DON'T EXIST. No such word as irregardless, no such word as impactful, oh, don't get me started!

Quote:

when a show makes a 2-hour telefilm that actually airs with the hopes that positive feedback will lead to a series (for example Babylon 5, which wanted 5 years, but aired a 2-hour telefilm to test the waters), is the telefilm a pilot? And if they decide to go forward with an actual series a year later, does the first episode of that series also become a pilot?

These 2 hour "telefilms" are known as "Backdoor pilots." Meaning, that they will only become pilots (the first ep of a series) if the MOW (movie of the week, telefilm, whatever) does decent enough ratings. Most recent example of that is the new James Caan show set in Vegas - I forget the name.

As for them "becoming" the pilot, in most cases that's a no, but only in the sense that the 2 hour movie airs, then months or years later the series premieres with what is basically a continuation of the story from the 2 hour movie.

The industry's lingo is so full of crap (and full of itself) that one can barely keep up. There's all the stuff you've been asking about, then there's things like "put pilots" and "blind pilots" and on and on...

my head hurts now.

mrpayroll · 09-17-03, 05:49 PM

http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|83557|1|,00.html

"Carnivale" debuted to 5.3 million viewers, making it the most-watched series opener ever on HBO. "Six Feet Under" was the previous record-holder, with about 5 million viewers for its 2001 premiere.

The new show may be hard-pressed to duplicate those numbers, however, when it moves to 9 p.m. ET this week. "Carnivale" will have to do without the "Sex and the City" lead-in and will face more competition as the broadcast networks begin their fall season.

Well that is good news!

Chris

Buck Turgidson · 09-17-03, 10:41 PM

Maybe. I don't really see a lot of overlap among those two show's core audiences (although I watch both, myself). I'm a little skeptical of the whole idea of lead-ins in this day and time.

Back in the 3 networks days, when you actually had to physically get up and change the channel, you probably had more of that, but that time is passed. Anybody who simply watched Carnivale out of a lack of effort to change the channel, probably won't last all 13 weeks, anyway.

das Monkey · 09-18-03, 08:42 AM

• Quoth BoatDrinks •
Thank God. One of my pet peeves: people who use words that DON'T EXIST. No such word as irregardless, no such word as impactful, oh, don't get me started!

I'm glad we're in agreeance in regards to this point. For all intensive purposes, this really is a ginormous problem. Anyways ...

• Quoth BoatDrinks •
The industry's lingo is so full of crap (and full of itself) that one can barely keep up. There's all the stuff you've been asking about, then there's things like "put pilots" and "blind pilots" and on and on...

my head hurts now.

Thanks for taking one for the team. I very much appreciate all the information, wacky though it is.

das

marty888 · 09-18-03, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BoatDrinks
13 episodes. All HBO series are 13 episodes. 13 is a "season" on HBO.

All 13 Carnivale's have been filmed, cut and are waiting to air.

According to the HBO Carnivale pages:

Debuting on HBO this September, CARNIVÀLE follows a traveling carnival as it wends its way across the Dust Bowl, focusing on a mysterious young fugitive with hidden talents who is taken in by the carnival, and on the charismatic, shadowy evangelist who will ultimately cross his path. The 12-episode dramatic series takes place at a time of worldwide unrest, with evil on the rise around the globe and the Great Depression wreaking economic and social havoc here at home.

BoatDrinks · 09-18-03, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by marty888
The 12-episode dramatic series

Perhaps they mean 12 plus the pilot? I know my wife got paid for 13, that's all that matters.

09-17-03, 04:10 AM	#52
smokedragon DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: US Posts: 1,130	The first episode intrigued me enough to want to watch the second. __________________ I dreamed something wicked, something wild, then I woke up and reality punched me in the face

09-17-03, 11:29 AM	#53
BoatDrinks DVD Talk Hall of Fame Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Arch City Posts: 8,210	13 episodes. All HBO series are 13 episodes. 13 is a "season" on HBO. All 13 Carnivale's have been filmed, cut and are waiting to air. das, Re: the pilot thing. What you are referring to (the 20 minute thing) is what's called a "presentation." This was something that came into vogue a few years with the studios as a way to develop more pilots - lower costs - so instead of shooting 10 pilots one year, they can shoot 8 pilots and say, 5 presentations. Carnivale was NOT a presentation, but many network shows were: Judging Amy, Joan of Arcadia, L&O Criminal Intent, C.S.I., ED.... __________________ now playing in St. Louis

09-17-03, 11:45 AM	#54
das Monkey DVD Talk Hero Join Date: May 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 35,881	• Quoth BoatDrinks • das, Re: the pilot thing. What you are referring to (the 20 minute thing) is what's called a "presentation." This was something that came into vogue a few years with the studios as a way to develop more pilots - lower costs - so instead of shooting 10 pilots one year, they can shoot 8 pilots and say, 5 presentations. Please fogive my confusion here. A "presentation" is the increased pilot method that Warren Littlefield claims credit for, right? Is a presentation not also a pilot? If not, what would the first Buffy "pilot" be called? It was only half an hour and wasn't completely scored, but it's what they used to sell the idea. Then the first thing that aired was a much longer version of the same story but completely reshot with some different actors and some effects changes. Are they both pilots? Is one a pilot and the other a presentation? Or is one a pilot and the other simply a series premiere? I guess what confuses me is that it seems like a lot of overlapping terminology. For example, if I'm a badass and come to a studio with a series idea (nothing filmed, just scripts), and they say, "Great, here's a contract for 22 episodes. Go make the show." The first episode isn't a pilot then, is it? (I know that's not likely, but I'm trying to narrow down the terminology). You probably have better things to do than read this post. das __________________ DragonCon 2004 - 2005 - Lost in Hawaii - DVD Reviews You are not* entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.** -- Harlan Ellison quoting Gustave Flaubert

09-17-03, 01:36 PM	#56
das Monkey DVD Talk Hero Join Date: May 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 35,881	• Quoth BoatDrinks • You're right - this would never happen. But as far as the industry is concerned, yes that first episode would still be considered the pilot, even though there was already a full season guarantee. It's just semantics. Means nothing. DEK and some others have had 6,13, and even full season guarantees for shows, but that first episode is still considered and called the pilot. It may not be technically correct but that's the business. Thank you. That's pretty much the answer I was looking for, and I'm glad I have that cleared up in my mind. I've never been able to fit the functional definition of the word "pilot" with the apparent usage of the word. I've been foolishly holding onto the literal definition of the word (just like I refuse to ever use "same difference" or "irregardlessly" in a sentence) when the industry has a much more liberal (no pun intended) interpretation of its meaning. Anyway, thanks for clearing all that up for all of us. I'm not sure I agree with it, but like you say, that's the business. Just to further bother you, when a show makes a 2-hour telefilm that actually airs with the hopes that positive feedback will lead to a series (for example Babylon 5, which wanted 5 years, but aired a 2-hour telefilm to test the waters), is the telefilm a pilot? And if they decide to go forward with an actual series a year later, does the first episode of that series also become a pilot? Alos, if Chuck Yeager comes to my house for dinner ... oh, nevermind. das __________________ DragonCon 2004 - 2005 - Lost in Hawaii - DVD Reviews You are not* entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.** -- Harlan Ellison quoting Gustave Flaubert

09-18-03, 08:42 AM	#60
das Monkey DVD Talk Hero Join Date: May 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 35,881	• Quoth BoatDrinks • Thank God. One of my pet peeves: people who use words that DON'T EXIST. No such word as irregardless, no such word as impactful, oh, don't get me started! I'm glad we're in agreeance in regards to this point. For all intensive purposes, this really is a ginormous problem. Anyways ... • Quoth BoatDrinks • The industry's lingo is so full of crap (and full of itself) that one can barely keep up. There's all the stuff you've been asking about, then there's things like "put pilots" and "blind pilots" and on and on... my head hurts now. Thanks for taking one for the team. I very much appreciate all the information, wacky though it is. das __________________ DragonCon 2004 - 2005 - Lost in Hawaii - DVD Reviews You are not* entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.** -- Harlan Ellison quoting Gustave Flaubert

09-17-03, 12:34 AM	#51
Buck Turgidson DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The War Room Posts: 1,442	According to the (generally dismissive) review in People , it's scheduled to be a 12 episode maxi-series. Whether HBO and the creators would want to continue beyond that is anybody's guess, and beyond my ken. Maybe Sophie/Clea could read the cards and tell us Incidentally, I know I might be all alone on this, but I think Clea's very, very sexy

09-17-03, 05:49 PM	#58
mrpayroll Guest Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Glendale, next to L.A. Posts: 18,487	http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271\|83557\|1\|,00.html "Carnivale" debuted to 5.3 million viewers, making it the most-watched series opener ever on HBO. "Six Feet Under" was the previous record-holder, with about 5 million viewers for its 2001 premiere. The new show may be hard-pressed to duplicate those numbers, however, when it moves to 9 p.m. ET this week. "Carnivale" will have to do without the "Sex and the City" lead-in and will face more competition as the broadcast networks begin their fall season. Well that is good news! Chris

09-17-03, 10:41 PM	#59
Buck Turgidson DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The War Room Posts: 1,442	Maybe. I don't really see a lot of overlap among those two show's core audiences (although I watch both, myself). I'm a little skeptical of the whole idea of lead-ins in this day and time. Back in the 3 networks days, when you actually had to physically get up and change the channel, you probably had more of that, but that time is passed. Anybody who simply watched Carnivale out of a lack of effort to change the channel, probably won't last all 13 weeks, anyway.