American Idol - 4/22/2003

[CanadianKnight]

The constant insults and putdowns are not funny and distract from the show. It sounds a bit hostile especially the ones hurled by Ryan. I like banter and ribbing but this is getting out of hand.

Couldn't agree more. Witty jibs and shots are okay... but it has gotten way out of hand.

I generally tune in the show, and then ignore it until someone is actually singing. :P

At this point, I can say I highly doubt I'll be watching AI3.

[SleepyW]

Originally posted by Alyoshka
She really isn't that good of a singer or performer. My problem with her is that her voice often goes flat during the songs. During these last two weeks she has started to do a little better, however, I don't think she'll make it as a Pop Star. She doesn't have the vocal range, nor does she have the look.

I didn't say anything about her performing ability or looks...just that she had a good singing voice. Not great, but good. My comment was in response to many saying she can't sing, and that would be incorrect.

And the comment about me being the Simon of the message boards...he's mimicked my comments about nearly every performance since the show started...the only difference is he's not afraid to say them to the performers' faces.

I too have said that since the beginning. However, I'm not sure that AI is looking for a "pop" singer. If they were then they need to get rid of Reuben who is more of an R&B vocalist. They need to surely get rid of Josh who purports to be a country singer. AI is looking for the next big artist. I'm not sure they entirely care what genre it is in. While it certainly wouldn't be in Broadway, it could be a vocalist.

As Simon said, they are looking for the next great RECORDING artsist. That's why I'm not crazy about "America" voting because the general population doesn't know their head from their rear end. Ruben has shown that his musical range is limited to raspy slow vocals. As a performer, he needs a lot of work. He doesn't move around and he always makes the same "reaching out" hand gesture constantly. Kim L. has a good voice, but otherwise, there's nothing to separate her from all the others singers in her class out there. Josh has an identity crisis and I'm way over him. Strangley enough, as much as I don't want to like Trenyce, I've felt she's has some of the stronger performances in past weeks, but she won't win because the judges don't support her much.

Clay has consistently shown that vocally he has the strongest voice on the show. He has an amazing range, a strong vibrato, and he, unlike every other singer besides Reuben, stays on pitch.

When i first heard Clay, I might have agreed. But every week I grow more and more annoyed with his style. He overannunciates every word when he sings, and as a listener, that is extremely irritating to listen to. He's a Broadway or lounge singer at best...not a pop recording artist. I will admit his look has come a long way.

I think the majority of us are just getting tired of these restrictive theme shows. It is folly to make the diverse group of singers have to choose from a narrow pool of songs. Futhermore, it gets tiresome for the views to watch that.

I half agree. I don't necessarily like the themes, but I don't think the song pools are narrow. The singer they choose needs to have flexibility to perform a variety of genres. While Carmen was flexible, her voice killed her. Kim C. was not very versitile which is why she's gone. Josh will likely be next. Clay is more of a balladeer, and if it weren't for his huge fan base, I'd say he's next. Generally speaking, I think the performers are picking terrible songs. I would have loved to have been an advisor to the performers to help them choose songs and rehearse.

[MrHappyToes]

Worst. Group song. Ever.

Yah, Carmen's gone. Next week Josh, please.

It's sad that I'm pulling for people to get voted off, rather than pulling for someone to win. I don't think anyone on this show deserves to win this thing.


P.S. Check out Kelly Clarkson's Miss Independent - Chipmunk Style. Click on the Jukebox link. Absolutely hilarious!

[SleepyW]

I'm kind of tired of so many people ragging on Carmen baout her face. Firstly, I think she's adorable. Second, did you not have acne problems at 18? Cut her some slack.

Also, considering she is only 18, I'd say she held up pretty well considering she's up in front of millions of viewers and 3 industry pros are slamming her performance every week. I would have bet she would have broken down on stage and started crying or something, but she never did. My hat's off to her for taking the insults and criticism like a pro.

[Patman]

Last year when either Barbara Walters or Diane Sawyer interviewed Diane Warren, Diane admitted to never being truly, deeply in love with anyone. Thus, you have to wonder how much depth a person who hasn't really experienced love can really impart to a love song/ballad.

What Diane is good at are hooks and sentimental sappy notions of love wrapped up in over-produced songs.

[Jadzia]

Diane Warren may be a "genius" at cranking out #1 hits, but I doubt anyone will remember her songs in 50 years. They just all sound alike and are very unmemorable. I really doubt any of them will stand the test of time and be classics. They seem like pretty disposable pop ballads to me.

When they were naming her hit songs from 10 years ago, I couldn't remember a lot of them by name, and I work in the music industry.

[SleepyW]

Originally posted by MrHappyToes
I don't think anyone on this show deserves to win this thing.

I agree. Everyone is so buddy-buddy that there's a lack of competitive spirit among the contestants. Also, not one of them stands out when you combine voice, performance, look, and personality.

Josh was decent when he did the garth Brooks song - he combined all 4 elements, but that was it. Kim C. was lively on stage. Otherwise, no one has done much to impress me (excluding Trenyce's and Kim L.'s Billy Joel night performances).

[SleepyW]

Originally posted by Jadzia
When they were naming her hit songs from 10 years ago, I couldn't remember a lot of them by name, and I work in the music industry.

If you're not familiar with the work one the top songwriters of the past 10-15 years, I'd say that's your fault, not hers. Not to be rude, but that doesn't say much about your career choice.

[Alyoshka]

Originally posted by SleepyW
If you're not familiar with the work one the top songwriters of the past 10-15 years, I'd say that's your fault, not hers. Not to be rude, but that doesn't say much about your career choice.

How does not being familiar with someone who writes boring and uncreative songs mean anything about your knowledge of the music industry. Diane Warren writes empty, unimpressive, and formulist songs.

In an analogy, what would you say if someone in the movie industry knew filmmakers like PT Anderson or Pedro Almodovar. But didn't really know the movies by Jerry Bruckenhiemer (however it's spelled). I don't think it says anything but the person likes substance instead of form.

[Jadzia]

Originally posted by SleepyW
If you're not familiar with the work one the top songwriters of the past 10-15 years, I'd say that's your fault, not hers. Not to be rude, but that doesn't say much about your career choice.

I didn't say I was "unfamiliar" with her; rather, I said when they listing the names of her songs from 10 years ago I could not remember or recognize many of them by name. They are just forgettable songs: on the charts one week, forgotten the next. Her songs just are not very enduring.

She is not the Beatles.

It would be like asking someone like Roger Ebert to recall the plot of a Steven Seagal movie from 10 years ago.

[TheAllPurposeNothing]

The more I think about this thing the more I realize I"m spending too much time thinking about this thing.

I've come to the conclusion that everyone of the contestants deserve to win. Not because anyone is special or memorable but because the sad truth is that an american idol is someone who is here today and gone tomorrow, having left nothing but a whisper behind. Being special or memorable is antithetical to the concept of winning the show.

Look at the people who have survived the music industry for years...who could really have won this contest? Springstein? Joel? Nah. Maybe Madonna though her film history would have gotten her disqualified. If not, her political views would have.

Look at N'sync or 98 Degrees or Backstreet Boys. All had their moments and then were forgotten about. As will Christina, Britney and their ilk. All would have been strong contenders for this show. And all are doomed to be nothing more than forgotten oddities of the past.

So I say "Hail to one hit wonder Clay Aiken!" Here's to People Magazine' s "Whatever happened to..." cover story on Ruben and Kimberly. Bow before future insurance salesman Josh.

The American Idol will soon be forgotten by the American idle.

[atlantamoi]

SleepyW, LOL... are you a music teacher or something? Dianne Warren's book of hits in my mind is close to complete crap. In fact, just about all of the music performances on this show are complete crap. But it's fun to watch (actually, I do end up fast forwarding through EVERY group sing-a-long... oh my). I'm still pulling for Ruben because I do like his voice and he's fun to watch.
Would I buy his music? Not before I have every single Marvin Gaye and Al Green disc.

As far as Carmen goes... I wish she'd have been cut back in whatever city she auditioned in. However, bashing her looks like some have done here is a bit much. I don't find her very cute, but damn......

[mcbg1]

For those interested in hearing the recording voice of the Top 11 of AI2, walmart has put up clips of the Greatest Love Songs CD on their website :

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...A51934%3A37782

Julia sounds pretty good IMO

[das Monkey]

• Quoth mcbg1 •

---

Julia sounds pretty good IMO

---

It would sound a lot better without that pop backbeat.

das

[RichardW]

Originally posted by SleepyW
My hat's off to her for taking the insults and criticism like a pro.

Sorry, but Carmen's "Are you f**king kidding me?" slack-jawed look when Randy was criticizing her performance on Tuesday was far from professional.

[Patman]

I think Carmen would have sounded better if she just let go of that silly goat-like vibrato in her long notes. Then we'd just have to contend with her nasally (thinking "The Nanny") singing.

I do find ironic that Carmen did get a lot of airtime in the vignettes they shot because she was the cutest of the remaining contestants. Now, those vignettes are going to be horrendous looking with the last 5.

[potvin48]

Originally posted by Alyoshka
You're right. I'm done watching too because the performances aren't any good. Nobody remaining has anywhere near that talent of the final 4 or 5 we saw last year.

I think for AI3 they need to think about revamping the way people advance in the early rounds or how they get voted off or revamp both.

What they need to do is stop promoting one over the other...All the ROOO-bin crap is driving me nuts...I don't get it...I thought Carmen was the only one left who would have made what they were looking for...Sure, a few more vocal lessons, but she's only 18...Give her a few more years and she could be the next Britney Spears...

[potvin48]

Also, can anyone imagine going to a ROOO-BIN concert???

It'd be about 2 minutes of singing (very good singing at that), then it'd be about 1/3 of the words because he's out of breath...I am not slamming him for being big, I am a big guy too, but geesh, how long of a song could he sing???

[Jadzia]

So how many people think the producers make some of those silly signs that the audience holds up?

[Patman]

I can't see the producers making the "I'm carrying Ruben's baby" poster...

[shaggybrown]

Originally posted by Alyoshka
How does not being familiar with someone who writes boring and uncreative songs mean anything about your knowledge of the music industry. Diane Warren writes empty, unimpressive, and formulist songs.

I'm not a big fan of her work myself, but she's doing something right. The few songs of hers that I like, I like quite a bit. If her songs are so formulistic and empty, then why can't everyone match her success? Why couldn't someone put out a madlib book of Diane Warren songs?

Perhaps the true Turing test would be to see if a computer could tell the difference between a song written by Diane Warren and someone else, if it is as mechanical, empty, and formulistic as you claim.

[atlantamoi]

But people like Jim Steinman and David Foster are also formulaic with big hits and that stuff is just sinister.

[das Monkey]

• Quoth shaggybrown •

---

Why couldn't someone put out a madlib book of Diane Warren songs?

Perhaps the true Turing test would be to see if a computer could tell the difference between a song written by Diane Warren and someone else, if it is as mechanical, empty, and formulistic as you claim.

---

Search the forum, and you'll find me repeatedly joking that you can download the software used to churn out pop hits through a backdoor at www.DianeWarren.com ... but avoid early versions, so no one confuses you with mid-90's - current James Horner.

atlantamoi, Steinman owns you. :P

das

[SleepyW]

Originally posted by Alyoshka
How does not being familiar with someone who writes boring and uncreative songs mean anything about your knowledge of the music industry. Diane Warren writes empty, unimpressive, and formulist songs.

I don't think it says anything but the person likes substance instead of form.

If you're trying to prove a point, how about using fact over opinion? You may not like her work, but you have to respect what she's done in the business.

That said, your "substance over form" argument is about as weak as they come. It's called knowing your craft. I personally don't care for country music or hip hop, but being in the industry, I am familiar with the front-runners of the business in those areas, as it's my job to know. Your example is like saying "I'm in the sports industry, but I don't know anything about Larry Bird - who did he play for?" Now, if his job in the industry is wrapping wire in some third-rate reggae radio station in Fargo, North Dakota, then I wouldn't expect him to know anything about Diane Warren (for example)...but don't comment about being in the industry as if it makes you some kind of expert in the field.

Come on, people -- if pop songs are so formulatic and easy to write, let's knock out some top 10's! Again, you don't have to like what she does, but you culd at least show some respect for someone that has had a great run and is among the best in her field. There are plenty of musicians and athletes I can't stand, but if they're good at what they do, I at least acknowledge it. Some folks don't have the same intergity, I guess. It's easier to slam someone than to give credit...

[xnlt]

Next week's theme is Neil Sedaka songs. He will also be the guest judge.