Doug Heffernan

I just happened to watch the end of another episode from this season right before last nights (it was on the tape!). It was the one where, at the end, Xander and Dawn had a converstaion about what it's like to be so close the the spotlight and never be able to step in into it - anyway, Xander said that he "sees a lot of things because nobody is watching him" then he goes on to tell Dawn that she is "extroadinary."

Then, Dawn says "Maybe your power is that you see things", or something along those lines.

Just a guess, but maybe that is what Caleb was talking about, but how could he know that this converstaion took place? It seems too exact of a reference to be a coincidence.


**Maybe Buffy does have a thing or two to learn from Giles???? I can't picture him saying "I told you so!"

*** Loved the dialog:

Faith: "So your the bad slayer now, wait, I'm the good slayer? ?"


Doug

AXP 103

I laughed out loud when Andrew gave that look to the Asian slayer. That guy appears to have great timing.

I also like Caleb, he delivers his lines with just enough rightousness without going over the top. He's crazy without being a parody, which would ruin his character.

Dr. DVD

Like Quentin Tarantino in Little Nicky?

Patman

Andrew's bits were the highlight of the episode.

wmansir

First, how does showing T&A = Hates women? And how can you complain about Faith being sexy when she takes off her coat when spike was SHIRTLESS for the entire scene? And the Xander scene was poking fun at the entire male fantasy of living in a house full of young women. I'm not saying there aren't gratuitous sexy moments in Buffy, but it is a show aimed a young adults so that's not inherently sexist or entirely unexpected.

If you're looking for gender discrimination on the show, check out the men. Besides Xander (who represents Joss) every major male character has been an big time ass at one time or another. Between killing people(Angel, Spike, Giles) , hitting Buffy (Spike, Angel), abandoning Buffy (Giles, Angel, Riley, Daddy) you have the minor male characters doing things like sleeping with Buffy and then ignoring her. Even Xander left Anya at the alter. That's not to say the women haven't had their bad times, especially in recent seasons, but on the whole I would say the men get the short end of the stick. Heck, last night's episode featured a main villian who was an evil man who thought all women were dirty whores and took sick pleasure in killing them. And I though I'd get a new male role model.

And if Buffy has become anything after season 5 you can take a lot of the blame off Joss since he turned over a majority of the work to Marti Noxon.

retihsuhnt

wmansir, I understand your points on the male v. female portrayls. But what woman in the show has been independent of a male? I say this because Slayers have Watchers, Joyce always seemed to have a boyfriend (in some form or another), Faith had the mayor. It just seems that women are portrayed as less “powerful” characters than the men.

I have a lot of respect for Whedon’s creation, but once he took his hands of the “day to day” creativity of the show it really went downhill. I am hopeful that he can “right the ship” come May 20 with his presence behind the camera.

dvdmaniac19

did anyone else see the reaction buffy had when faith told her that shed been in angels mind? If anyone remembers the episode "earshot" buffy wanted to read his mind.

overall it was a mediocre episode. I wish we could have episodes that are as good as in the first few seasons of buffy.

Nathan Gervais

Watching the show once more today I decided the most disturbing thing in the show was the joy Caleb took in The First helping him relive the women he killed in the past. It is sick & twisted but it is also simple & elegant. Second impression was that this was another strong episode. After seven years of wtaching these characters grow & change, I'm not really happy with where some of these people seem to be headed but it is hard to deny the power of seeing Xander, the heart of the gang, lose his eye in such a matter-of-fact fashion. I said it earlier, all bets are off.

Xander

I think you are missing some of the major "female empowerment" messages of the show. Buffy outgrows her need for the watcher's council. Buffy outgrows the need for a watcher. Joyce always having boyfriends? I can think of TWO episodes out of five seasons (off the top of my head) where she had a date. Ted, and the one right before The Body. Faith had the Mayor? Fine, but I would hardly count her as a positive female role model during the second half of season three. Also, you have Willow, who is pretty much the most powerful human in Sunnydale right now. So to me, the show definitely shows females as the more powerful sex.

And I don't know why people keep using the excuse that Joss isn't there any more. Joss still breaks every single episode, just like he always did. He still does the final dialog approval of every single episode, just like he always did. So he has been very involved with the last couple of seasons. If you don't like them, it's Joss's fault too.

I thought this episode rocked. Nice action, great chemistry between Faith and Spike. Really feeling bad for Xander right now. Can't wait to see what happens next.

X

Jadzia

My favorite laugh-out-loud moment was when Buffy called the place "an evil winery" and Spike said "Falcon Crest".

Vespertillio

Hello all, I have just read some rather disturbing/crappy news from the "Buffy/Angel All spoiler/speculation thread" over at HTF. So far their descriptions and plotlines seem to coincide with what has happend so far. Down towards the bottom are the spoilers for the final episode. I will say right now, that if what is described is true, this will be a huge f***ing let down. Anyway, here is the link.

DO NOT READ UNLESS YOU WANT SOME PRETTY SERIOUS SPOILERS


You have been warned.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=126410

Cheers all.

Slumbering Fist

Sorry, but thats an extremely flawed line of thinking... On one hand you complain that the way the show portrays its characters (especially women) is demeaning, or has some kind of hang ups, and then think the shows creator- the guy who set this (as you see it flawed/misogynist) ground for seven seasons- will somehow turn all of that around in one episode?... I think you may be the one with the askew view with the hang ups. I mean, c'mon, complaining about Faiths sexiness as she removes her tight jacket in a scene written for sexual tension?- thats like complaining about Elvis' swinging hips. Slayers need Watchers because they are found in their early teens, at an age when they are in need of authority, and they’re not all male Watchers either.

Joss just seems to paint all of his characters with shades of gray, the humans with positive attributes as well as severe flaws. Hell even the demons have their issues. I think it would be mores unfair to make her character too positive and self assured, and most of all it would be boring because there would be nothing for any real person to relate to.

Dr. DVD

Something to consider, almost everyone who is a prominent member of Buffy's camp has murdered someone at one point or another, except Xander. And you saw what happened to him.

Jlbkwrm

Xander has not murdered anyone, but he has been responsible for the death of at least one person.

He summoned the demon that brought about the musical episode. Said demon's dancing spell caused at least one guy to dance until he burned up. Xander has never reacted to this in any way whatsoever. No guilt, no sorrow, no nothing. It's almost like it was written into the plot without anyone considering the implications. Hm.

So, the eye could be a karmic smackdown for the events of the musical ep. It's a lot less unsettling than the idea that all the good characters are going to be made to suffer for no reason.

retihsuhnt

I could have sworn that Dawn summoned the singing demon, and thats why he wanted to take her with him near the conclusion of the episode. This was during Dawn's cleptomaniac days.

retihsuhnt

I never said that he would "turn it around" in one episode, all I was attempting to say is that hopefully Whedon will be able to have BTVS go out on a high note, rather than a whimper (where its headed right now). Hopefully this makes more since to the masses that seem to take my comments a little too far, Noxon is to Whedon as Berman is to Rodenberry. Both have destroyed perfectly good series/ideas.

Hey I am one person that was cheering for Buffy to kill Andrew a few episodes ago, because this show was getting to "campy". Thats what drew me to "Angel", it was dark. This is the first season that BTVS has ever dealt with religion and its not a show to do that. If what others have said is what is targeted then this show is for HS students, while "Angel" seems to at least be aimed at college age individuals. Both shows are dealing with religion and the only one that is capable of handling such a subject (by evidence in the past) is "Angel".

Like I first said people would not agree with what I said, but some in their responses have made excellent points while others question my opinion. Hey its just what Im thinking, its not going to make a difference one way or another.

Jlbkwrm

Dawn had stolen the necklace, so when Sweet came looking to collect his bride, he thought it was her.

Xander then comes forward and says he did the summoning (before Dawn stole the necklace) because he thought it would be all happy and dancing, so if Sweet wants to take a bride, it's gonna have to be him. Sweet doesn't want him, but can't have Dawn, so he leaves empty handed.

There are so many things wrong with the decision to have Xander be the one who summoned Sweet, but that's the way they wrote it.

WiccanPagan

so didn't get this.

Dr. DVD

For the record, I don't know if Xander actually knew about the death in the musical episode, so he didn't know to feel guilt. You know, it would be interesting if he found out about it in one of the last few eps, kind of like Buffy didn't find out until this year about Xander telling her to kick Angel's arse when he was supposed to tell her Willow was able to reverse the spell.

Slightly unrelated notes: why does the first always want to appear as Buffy? Why not some of the other past big bads as in the season premiere?

Also, anyone else think that had Charisma Carpenter not landed her role in Buffy she would be making soft porn for "Skinemax" right now?

Brian_92gsr

Giles told Xander and Anya about the man that had burnt up, so he already knows about it. The first always appears as Buffy because SMG is already on the payroll.

Matthew Chmiel

1. Buffy is dead.
2. As already said, Buffy is on the payroll.
3. In all honesty, if the first came back as Adam or Glory or Warren or The Master, would the Scoobies and potentials and Wood and Faith really give a crap?

Jadzia

Falcon Crest was this prime-time soap opera in the 80's that took place in a winery/vineyard. It was sort of like Dynasty or Dallas.

http://us.imdb.com/Details?0081858

It was just so funny that Spike would make that comment since it was already established he is a soap fan by his earlier references of"Passions".

WiccanPagan

there's the reason. grew up in the 90's.

retihsuhnt

No, but this audience member would be riveted to their seat.

goofee girl

Finally got to watch this episode last night...

Did I miss the explanation as to how Caleb got so powerful and strong? Did he get extra muscle from the First or is this one of those unexplained mysteries? Seems nobody can hurt or kill this man even though both Buffy and Spike tried.

One quick scene that was a favorite was of Xander shooting the arrow right through the wrist of the Bringer as he entered the winery. Excellent shot, Xander.