Wizdar

I’m referring, of course, to Wesley Crusher as a character. If not for the benefit of height, Wil could have been destined to be a white Gary Coleman.

Considering the dirty looks my opinion of the “Buffy Musical” gets, I can appreciate what it takes to author a pro-Wesley post.

But, ponder for a moment the marriage of Wesley Crusher and Kim (24) Bauer. The issue of such a union would have the life expectancy of a baby harp seal in a world without Greenpeace…



Bando, you see, it really isn't all about the potato.

CanadianKnight

Wizdar, I wouldn't say I'm "pro-Wesley". More "pro-Wheaton". I think the guy gets a bum rap for doing as the writers envisioned.

MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! Welcome to the club Bandoman.

Glad to see I'm not the only convert. Wait... you ain't seen nuthin yet. Really.



Sounds about right... I felt the same way after doing some readin' on his site.

Dorklordness? I LIKE that!!!! Might hafta steal it from ya for future dorky occasions. Like discussing which sci-fi show is better...

Chew

Very cool that people decided to try both shows based on all the glowing praise even when they may of had a negative view of them before this all started!

Which gets us back to the point that started this all: At least catching up on Buffy DVDs won't cost as much as catching up on Trek/X-Files......

fiver

On the Wesley issue: After re-watching the TNG dvd's, I absolutely blame the writers for the mis-handling of his character. You could just tell that they never had any overall concept of what they wanted to do with the character....it seemed like they had a particular purpose in mind for wesley from the episode "Where Noone has gone before" onwards but I don't feel that that potential was every realized properly. I think Wil Wheaton probably did the best he could with that character; although right now I'm catching up on DS9 and I've come to a very different point of view of Jake Sisko from when I originally caught a few eps during the initial run. I'm not sure if the actor is better than Wil Wheaton but the character was definitely written better I feel.

I'm glad we're getting so many more B5 and Buffy converts. I like quite a bit of Season 1, but if that's all you've seen so far you're absolutely going to HATE the wait between seasons 2 and 3, and 3 and 4 I say that knowing what a great season finale season 1 had hehe You may just want to be kind to yourself and wait til they're all released before watching them so you won't have to wait those 6 months between seasons

At this point I'm not getting into the X-Files. I saw a few of the non-mythology eps from time to time and was never very impressed. It seems to me there's quite a disparity of opinion on these boards about X-Files so I'm not sure it's worth the investment time for me.

Michael

das Monkey

• Quoth fiver •<HR SIZE=1>At this point I'm not getting into the X-Files. I saw a few of the non-mythology eps from time to time and was never very impressed. It seems to me there's quite a disparity of opinion on these boards about X-Files so I'm not sure it's worth the investment time for me.<HR SIZE=1>

I think the disparity of opinion stems from the disparity in quality. There are some truly impressive episodes, particularly in the early years, and the formations of the mythology are really cool; but by the end, it became a complete mess with no direction and ran itself completely into the ground. Consequently, there seem to be two camps of people: those who cling to its former glory and those who couldn't take any more. In part, I think both camps are right. Anyway, that's probably why you see such opposing views on the subject.

das

saberdance42

I think I'm in BOTH camps, strangely enough. I do cling to its former glory, owning the first 3 seasons on dvd, but the later seasons definitely taint the enjoyment without a question. After the fifth season it became abundantly clear that Chris Carter had no clue what he was doing, where the hell he was going, or how to run/write for a major television series in a consistent manner. [Duchovny and Anderson becoming just as tired at this point DID NOT help matters. And in terms of long-term storytelling with seasonal arcs, consistent situations, interesting and vivid characters, and actions that have consequences, Buffy and B5 make any and all seasons of The X-Files look like Sesame Street.] But the first three seasons, especially the Darin Morgan, Morgan & Wong and Howard Gordon-penned episodes are classics.

Mr. MIKE

Xander

WOW. I just read all 5 pages of this thread. Very interesting stuff. Das, you are my hero. You are so...succinct.

Okay, here are some of my thoughts...

X-Files: cool show, cool concept, some REALLY cool episodes. Too confusing after the movie came out. Started to get bored, stopped watching.

Star Trek: big Trek fan. TNG definitely had its share of clunkers, though. DS9 was very cool, never watched the other two.

Buffy: best show on TV. love every season, every ep. Does that make me a fanboy? Nah.

B5: never seen a single ep, but after reading this thread, I want to! So are there just the season box sets out there? Is that what I need to get started? I'm on it.

X

das Monkey

• Quoth Xander •<HR SIZE=1>B5: never seen a single ep, but after reading this thread, I want to! So are there just the season box sets out there? Is that what I need to get started? I'm on it.<HR SIZE=1>

You'll want the dual-telefilm DVD for 'The Gathering' and 'In the Beginning'. You'll also want to go ahead and get the 1st season boxset (2nd season April 29) so you're not tempted to ditch the show after seeing how uneven 'The Gathering' is (it's not really that bad, just nowhere near as good as it gets). Watch 'The Gathering' followed by Season 1. Avoid the temptation (which will be strong once you've seen enough episodes) to watch 'In the Beginning' until after you've seen through Season 4 of the show.

Enjoy. It won't be long before you start wondering whether Buffy is still your favorite show.

das

Wizdar

Only two camps here?

I’ve made no secret of my blasphemous opinions, that if The Gods of Creation (Whedon, Carter, Straczynski, etc.) flounder, I’m not gonna make excuses for them.

That said, in between “those who cling to its former glory” and “those who couldn’t take it any more,” might there not be those who just become apathetic and found something else to watch? This would be the case with me re X-Files, I think. Right about the time others have mentioned, I just stopped watching or found something else (The Sopranos?) to fill in the time.

Of course, this attitude doesn’t explain why I’m still watching Enterprise. I’m clinging to [Trek’s] former glory but can’t take it any more.

I agree with das’ recommendations about the B5 teleplays. These days I’m actually leaning towards suggesting that The Gathering could be skipped altogether, now that S1 is out, and S2 is on its way. The series takes a fresh start with some changes (coupla different characters, some makeup refinements) and I don’t think anything is missed by not watching. Also, the temptation to flip the disc and watch In The Beginning will not be there. JMO, of course.
[Keanu Reeves voice] Whoa! [/voice] I'm shocked!

das Monkey

• Quoth Wizdar •<HR SIZE=1> These days I’m actually leaning towards suggesting that The Gathering could be skipped altogether, now that S1 is out, and S2 is on its way. The series takes a fresh start with some changes (coupla different characters, some makeup refinements) and I don’t think anything is missed by not watching.<HR SIZE=1>

I mean that literally and in reference to why you need to see 'The Gathering' before moving on. There's also some essential Vorlon and Minbari goodies that I don't think should be missed. A lot of stuff is covered again throughout the course of the first season (and beyond), but I think 'The Gathering' adds another level of clarity to why some characters behave the way they do.

das

Wizdar

Was there ever a doubt? &

But you're absolutely right. My bad.

Plus, there's the added benefit of the purchase of the movies supporting the product, n'est ce pas?

slop101

*beating dead horse...*

If the price of a tv show's box set was a reflection of it's quality - how would one explain that The Sheild is half the price of The Sopranos for the same number of episodes - yet The Sheild beat the Sopranos for the Golden Globes?

The reason for the disparity of tv show box set prices is easily explained with one word:

Expenses - which has little to do with quality.


P.S. Buffy rocks my face!!

Bandoman

Damn! I made a mistake!

I'm two thirds of the way through season one (just finished disc 4, the episode where

Good stuff so far.

HOWEVER, I made the mistake of going to a B5 website, thinking I could just glimpse the characters and the ship and whatnot without getting any spoilers, when the first thing that drew my eye was a pic of Sinclair with a caption reading, in part

I've obviously ruined a significant plot point. Have I ruined the show completely for myself? I'll still watch, but has the whole mystery been revealed?

Damn, sometimes I'm really, really stupid. Sometimes. [No agreement necessary, I know it already.]

das Monkey

Bandoman,

Listen carefully (I will be intentionally vague to avoid spoiling other stuff in my attempts at explanation) ... then leave this thread forever ... AND STOP READING B5 SITES!!!

What you think you know is either not true or not important or both. Don't dwell on it.

das

Wizdar

Couldn’t have put it better if I tried. (And, trust me, I’ve been trying.)



das, LOVE your title! Color me jealous…

Bandoman

Thanks, das. I will avoid anything B5-related from now until I finish watching the whole show, which should be in about 2 years (can't they release the season box sets any faster?)

Kerborus

I gave it the benefit of the doubt and have been watching Buffy since I started this post and one word comes to mind: CAMPY.

It's made to be silly. Now I KNOW why I thought it was stupid in the first place... Vampires hissing and doing sub-par karate all with important looks on their faces... Lesbian witches, mis-guided demons... Sigh. I guess my generation has passed...

Guess I'll go watch Star Trek now...

Wizdar

Yeah. Enterprise is on tonight.

Kerborus

Umm, no thanks... I was only defending TNG and TOS.

Wizdar

There, of course, IS no defense for Enterprise.

I'm curious about that comment. Considering that I saw the original airing of TOS, and also enjoy Buffy -- what "generation" are you talking about?

Surf Monkey

Buffy and TOS are actually very similar in a number of ways. In particular, the triangle of personalities forming one compelling whole. It goes something like this:

Buffy = Kirk

Xander = Bones

Willow = Spock

There's no question in my mind that many of the elements that made TOS a success are employed by Buffy to very satisfying effect.

Surf Monkey

Have you even read one post in this thread? You have to watch Buffy from the beginning. Jumping in now just won't give you the back story you need.

Chew

I think there's plenty of reasons to call TOS campy, which was only a small part of why it was good.

PS Don't agree that Buffy is campy, however.

slop101

Kerborus, please please please watch Buffy seasons 1-3 first, then form an opinion. First season is definitely campy and maybe a little silly at times - but you need the ground work that's laid down and you'll be able to appreciate S1 even more later. Then season 2 will impress the heck out of you with great scripts, stories and character develpment. Then season 3 will hit you in the face like a sack of bricks with it's greatness.

If I'd only seen a few current episode here and there, like you have, without knowing or understanding anything that has gone befor, I'd think it would be stupid also. It's kind of like coming into a 7 chapter novel at the end of the 6th chapter instead of the begining.

Wizdar

Methinks there's a lot of "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind's made up" going on with Kerborus.