Wizdar

"The New Monday Nite Lineup:

VIP
TNG
WWD
CSI -- Season 2

And, starting next week, Enterprise, the first show we had to run a spell check on.

...on the NEW TNN!"

mikehunt

yeah, we all know Roddenberry never had scantily clad women in TOS
I agree it's not needed, but don't think it's something new

Eric F

Yes, but he never made the "main" female leads out (or any leads) out to be just "sex objects". There was always more to them than that. Not even in TNG. You never saw main characters do stupid demeaning things like, "oopsy, I feel out of my shirt".

Hell, I don't care if they run around naked, just as long as there's a good story there. If I want to watch scantily clad busty women I'll watch the "reality" shows like Big Brother and Survivor, etc.

WarriorPrincess

Just got finished watching Enterprise, and was saddened to see the potentially interesting story (I happen to like time travel and think the temporal cold war storyline could be fascinating if it is well-planned and well-executed) botched so horribly. One minute some genuine conflict and worry is everywhere, the next, everything is magically ok! Please. They're just destroying Trek.

What Enterprise has that Voyager didn't is a cast with potential. I despised Voyager from the first episode - just hated every single cast member except the doctor, so I couldn't stomach it past about 5 or 6 episodes. And I also hated the captain on Deep Sleep Nine - his line delivery was like nails on a chalkboard, and I couldn't even handle two episodes, despite how much I wanted to see Worf in action again (I tried to watch about 15 other episodes, but didn't make it past Sisko's appearances - the guy just rubs me the wrong way).

So here comes Enterprise, and I LOVE Bakula (thanks to Quantum Leap) and I adore both TNG and TOS (the two shows that are Trek, at least to me). So I'm thinking that this new show really has a shot at being as great as the other two, and I've watched every episode hoping that it would live up to its predecessors. The gratuitous t & a and innuendos (that started in the first episode) with the main cast were/are VERY annoying, but I'm hoping it's just the 7 of 9 phenomenon and it'll find it's feet soon and drop those cheap ploys.

But so far, none of the episodes even comes close to the worst TNG episode, except last season's finale - it had the potential to bring the quality up 100 notches. Consequently, I was hoping this season's opener would exceed the quality of the season finale, and we'd finally be getting a worthy Trek show again. Imagine my disappointment to find that all of the decent sci fi stuff happened in the blink of an eye off screen, and nothing was explained, nothing was explored, the ramifications of one's actions on the world around you were totally glossed over - where on earth is STAR TREK in all of this?!?!? It's like VIP in space.

Makes me even more furious that Farscape (the BEST sci fi on tv since B5) has been cancelled. Can't people tell good stories from bad? Doesn't quality acting and storytelling count for anything?

Don't get me wrong - I like fluff just as much as the next person, but don't try to tell me fluff is substance. I know better.

Zien

The depth of analysis and our own humanity points you make--I believe adventure stories can have these qualities, so I group those aspects together in my definition of Trek as an adventure in space. It's a smart adventure, with some versions smarter than others. Enterprise isn't the smartest, nor does it best convey these ideas; I think TNG did that best. However, Enterprise does include some of that, and it has potential for more. I do wish they could come up with better ways of getting the point across than giving the captain a poorly written speech.

And the gratuitous underwear shots are silly.

I'm not saying it's a great show, but I don't think most of current network television, most of which is various incarnations of reality tv and game shows, is worth watching. So, Enterprise is indeed one of the best. Not the best, but easily one of the best.

Wizdar

Isn’t this kinda like saying, “Everything else on is crap. Of all the crap that’s on, this is pretty good crap. So, based on that comparison, it has elevated itself from crap status.”

This could explain why I may occasionally turn on TNG on TNN. “Well, there’s no other crap on that I care to watch…”

Hardly a glowing recommendation.

adamblast

He'd tell them to put the women back in boots and miniskirts like they belong! That, and beehive hairdos.

Zien

I never said anything about glowing or a recommendation. And it is some of the best crap on TV. Basically, if you like space movies, and would rather not put in a DVD, watch Enterprise.

Isn't that what network TV is all about anyway? Finding the least crappiest show? Because we all know that any quality network show gets canceled early in its run while Friends, Survivor, Raymond, 7th Heaven, and Dawson Creek keep going...

das Monkey

In all seriousness, Zien, you're selling network television pretty short. While the dead horses are still running over on NBC, last season showcased some downright incredible television from some great upstarts (like The Shield and Alias) and the resurgence of old favorites (like NYPD Blue). Add to that what HBO is doing and the rise of Showtime, and there's more than enough superb television on the airwaves. Yeah, if you sit around watching "Must See TV" you'll miss all the good stuff, but it doesn't take much effort to find high quality programming that puts Enterprise to shame.

das

Eric F

Well, it used to be Trek wasn't considered crap at all. Now we consider it the lesser of crap. Oh how the times have changed.

Seriously, if FOX can do better shows (along with really crappy shows) then the folks behind Enterprise need to give it up. Heh. Well, Enterprise isn't all that bad, although I have to say I stopped watching Voy in the last season. If it keeps going as it is, I'll probably lose interest in Ent as well.

As far as SF/Fantasy shows go, Smallville is much higher on my list in character/plot development (I actually look forward to the next ep), and since I don't have cable, I really don't know what else is out there on network tv. I saw the premiere of Firefly and hated it.

If Farscape is as good as everyone says hopefully they'll start releasing boxed sets as soon as it comes to an end. More SG-1 boxed sets would be nice too.

Wizdar

I wouldn't count on it. It seems that once they start releasing, they don't seem to want to change the format. Thus, TOS will always be 2 shows per disk.

As will Space: 1999

das Monkey

Farscape Season 1 box set comes out in October if I recall. No release dates on Seasons 2 and 3, but the Save Farscape campaign is trying to get ADV to bump up any scheduled times to increase awareness of this great show.

das

Wizdar

Like I said, enlightened folks will change their tactics when they see the light.

DVDPriceSearch listed a "best of" season one. Amazon lists it as an October 29 release.

A bit pricey.

das Monkey

There's a "best of" that's already been released and a "complete" on the way. The complete is quite complete with fabulous features on each episode, since each disc was originally released individually. At 2 episodes per disc you can imagine how much cool stuff they crammed on there. Pricey, yes, but the high quality makes it well worth it IMO.

das

Breakfast with Girls

I'm not a huge Star Trek fan, but I have a better-than-average knowledge of the characters and everything, and I'm just disappointed that they just dropped their pants and crapped all over the established continuity.

My favorite series is TOS, and I think TNG had an episode where they went back in time to those days... why didn't they make the uniforms somewhat related to TOS uniforms and only update it in places where it's necessary instead of making it look like every other sci-fi show out there? Klingons should look like old-school Klingons, etc.

Zien

Though I don't watch it, I understand that Alias is pretty good. But shows like The Shield and and Showtime and HBO's lineup aren't considered network television. They may be far better than Enterprise, but you can't watch them with an antenna.

NYPD ran out of steam a long time ago. I loved 24, and I understand The West Wing is good, used to be better. The current state of NETWORK television is a sad one, but Enterprise sits near the top of that heap. Sure, Alias may be above it, as are some other shows. But not many. I'd rather watch Enterprise than any current sitcom, and most dramas.

Red Dog

My question is how many people in here and in general would watch Enterprise if it was not part of the Trek universe. I know that I sure wouldn't.

Wizdar

Ummm, , Mr. Even Bad SciFi Is Better Than No SciFi here.

I'm also watching Firefly. And not because it's put out by Mr. I Can Do No Wrong.

It don't keep me from bitchin' about the quality, though.

das Monkey

• Quoth Zien •<HR SIZE=1>NYPD ran out of steam a long time ago. I loved 24, and I understand The West Wing is good, used to be better.<HR SIZE=1>

NYPD Blue gained all its steam back and then some last season (hence "resurgence of old favorites"). Dunno what they did to fix things, but it was incredible last year. The West Wing is as good as it ever was ... it's just becoming popular to rag on it now that it's found so much success. Buffy, Angel, Bernie Mac, Scrubs ... there's plenty of good television to watch.

Yeah, if you narrow your scope of viewing as far as conceiveably possible, you can construct a universe where Enterprise is one of the better shows ... but damn, why own a TV if that's all it's going to be used for?

das

adamblast

[monkeybait] I thought Straczynski was doing Jeremiah, not Firefly... [/monkeybait]

das Monkey

*balances on tail*
*grabs handful of poo*

FIRE!!!

das

Wizdar

Ya missed me!

Have I not called JMS a "one hit wonder" in the past?

adamblast

I could have sworn that was my name too, until Voyager... I'm afraid Enterprise isn't winning me back. I missed 4 or 5 eps last season, and didn't even try to catch them again on reruns.

I still haven't seen the season opener, which I was really looking foward to following the cliffhanger, which was pretty good... But the comments since then have it sliding down into the low-priority district on my TiVo...

Zien

I prefer not to think of my conscious (financially angled) choice not to have cable as "narrowing my scope of viewing as far as conceivably possible." I prefer movies to television, so I don't need too many channels. And now, with this weird new DVD trend, I can just get entire seasons of cable shows and watch them later, albeit as an outcast at the water cooler. So, in this network-limited lifestyle of viewing, yes, Enterprise is one of the better shows. Not the best Trek, not the best television, and certainly not the best in all possible available television, but for someone who likes to go home, relax, and flip through 7 channels a few days a week when he doesn't want to bother with a movie, it's not all that bad.

And as a Quantum Leap fan, it's nice to see Scott Bakula weekly again.

And Buffy lost what it used to have, Angel never had it, but Bernie Mac and Scrubs are mad funny, yo. (so to speak.)

Eric F

I wouldn't be surprised if we see Quantum Leap sets on DVD to capitalize on his renewed popularity (be that as it may).

Seriously, if we're talking about good SF network TV, I still say Smallville is far ahead of the pack (I know, Fantasy, but we're picking nits). Smallville operates on many levels, the writers are brilliant (they know the Superman continuities) and the Jesus/Devil/Bible references are everywhere. It's fun stuff.

Is Enterprise fun? When a problem gets solved off screen (with no explanation) is that fun or even interesting? That just turns me off...