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View Poll Results: Are you getting an iPad 3?
Yes. 62 40.79%
No, I have an iPad 1. 7 4.61%
No, I have an iPad 2. 29 19.08%
No, I don't have an iPad and I don't want one. 54 35.53%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-17-12, 09:31 AM   #1201
Josh-da-man
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichC2 View Post
So the iPad 4 should be thinner and have an amazing screen?
The fourth gen iPad will probably be a marginal upgrade over the third gen.

It might be a a fraction of a millimeter thinner, and a few grams lighter; I wouldn't expect any changes to the display; they might tweak the cameras somehow. The biggest feature of the fourth gen iPad (the "New new iPad?") will probably be the inclusion of Siri.
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Old 05-17-12, 09:35 AM   #1202
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

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Yeah, I think a lot of is build quality.
It's proprietary as well, if you want Mac OS X, you "technically" have to buy a Mac. It isn't a Windows situation where any company can just buy a license and throw it on there. Since Apple has full market control of the OS they can charge what they want, the build quality is there but there is a ton of profit being reaped off of these machines, a ton of it. Unlike those laptop makers competing in the $350 range that barely make anything and eventually lose cash due to returns and RMAs.

MacBooks last and are well built and have support centers in many cities. But they're also expensive and use Mac OS by default, neither of which I'm a big fan of. But they obviously have their fans and they are high quality products, most people know by now they're paying a premium for it. I also hate the fact that everytime I use a MacBook in public I feel like I'm flaunting a wad of cash like a douchebag.
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Old 05-17-12, 09:46 AM   #1203
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

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Originally Posted by RichC2 View Post
It's proprietary as well, if you want Mac OS X, you "technically" have to buy a Mac. It isn't a Windows situation where any company can just buy a license and throw it on there. Since Apple has full market control of the OS they can charge what they want, the build quality is there but there is a ton of profit being reaped off of these machines, a ton of it. Unlike those laptop makers competing in the $350 range that barely make anything and eventually lose cash due to returns and RMAs.

MacBooks last and are well built and have support centers in many cities. But they're also expensive and use Mac OS by default, neither of which I'm a big fan of. But they obviously have their fans and they are high quality products, most people know by now they're paying a premium for it. I also hate the fact that everytime I use a MacBook in public I feel like I'm flaunting a wad of cash like a douchebag.
I'm not really sure why any of that is a bad thing. Unlike someone who buys a $350 laptop and has to get a new one in a year, I've had my white Macbook since 2007 and it still works fine and isn't falling apart.
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Old 05-17-12, 09:55 AM   #1204
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
I'm not really sure why any of that is a bad thing. Unlike someone who buys a $350 laptop and has to get a new one in a year, I've had my white Macbook since 2007 and it still works fine and isn't falling apart.
Nobody is arguing that they're solid devices, they're just overpriced. I have a Dell I bought from '07 that still works perfectly, I paid $399 for that and it's still trucking along just fine (admittingly, I've moved on to another, more gamer friendly laptop but still use it a lot for network scanning purposes). It's just more of a crapshoot at $400 than it is at $1500, which is kind of a "no duh" situation. The $1000 laptops tend to last pretty well, it's just the super value ones that really seem to vary.
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Old 05-17-12, 09:56 AM   #1205
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

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Originally Posted by RichC2 View Post
Nobody is arguing that they're solid devices, they're just overpriced. I have a Dell I bought from '07 that still works perfectly, I paid $399 for that and it's still trucking along just fine. It's just more of a crapshoot at $400 than it is at $1500, which is kind of a "no duh" situation. The $1000 laptops tend to last pretty well, it's just the super value ones that really seem to vary.
I don't disagree, but I can't see that as "overpriced." Plus it's not like anyone needs to pony up the 1800 bucks for the 15-inch Macbook Pro when you can get a Macbook Air for much less.
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Old 05-17-12, 10:01 AM   #1206
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

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I don't disagree, but I can't see that as "overpriced." Plus it's not like anyone needs to pony up the 1800 bucks for the 15-inch Macbook Pro when you can get a Macbook Air for much less.
"Overpriced" will of course vary from person to person, I just don't think they're worth the extra $800, but again many people do. As for the Airs, that's more on Apple... 13" and 128gb of internal storage works great for some people, not so much for others. 11" is a pain to use (I've never been a big netbook fan either) but they do look really, really nice.

14", 320gb, 1440x900 (or higher, pref 1680x1050) monitor is my ideal laptop, but I seem to be alone on that one. 1366x768 that a lot of laptops use is kind of inexcusable, especially when an iPad (3rd gen) is 9.7" and 20481536.

Last edited by RichC2; 05-17-12 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 05-17-12, 10:39 AM   #1207
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

Yeah, Apple seems to punish you for wanting a larger screen size. Whereas you can find 15" Windows laptops from $400 to upwards of several thousand, Apple's minimum price is $1,800 for that screen size.

It's similar with the iMac. If you're fine with a 21" screen, you can pay $1200 for an iMac. However, if you want a 27" screen, you'll have to pony up an additional $500, even if you don't necessarily need the other hardware upgrades it comes with. And when you do need a hardware upgrade, you have to pay for a whole new screen, since they're AIO devices. The Mac Minis are an alternative if you want to have a separate screen, but Apple charges a premium for the Minis since they're so small, even if you don't necessarily need such a small desktop device. And the Mac Pros are seriously overpriced, especially considering that they haven't had an update in nearly two years.

Apple is also known for seriously overcharging on RAM upgrades. The general advice is to buy the base system and upgrade the RAM yourself.


All that said, the iPads have been a very good value.
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Old 05-17-12, 12:05 PM   #1208
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

Well, to be fair about the 27'' iMac, it has a resolution of 2560x1440. In a PC, if you want a monitor with that resolution, you'll have to pay at least $900 (From Dell, less coupon if available, plus taxes). And of course that's considering they will have the same quality.

For the laptops, you have to consider everything. If you are going to use your laptop almost as a desktop replacement, not a lot of mobility needed, then yeah, you'll over pay with an Apple laptop. But if you really need the mobility of a laptop, weight, battery, screen, instant on, etc. are some of the features where you'll appreciate it.
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Old 05-17-12, 12:10 PM   #1209
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

Oh and btw, I don't have any Mac OS device. My laptops are from work, all of them are Dell and they work perfectly for me. My 2 desktops at home were built by me and are perfect of course.

There are scenarios were you really need a PC, either because of your work, the software is not available in a Mac, or pleasure, you are a hardcore gamer, you still need a PC.

My point is that Apple PCs are not "overpriced" if you really need the features they have. And yeah one of those features is being a closed system.
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Old 05-17-12, 12:16 PM   #1210
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

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Oh and btw, I don't have any Mac OS device. My laptops are from work, all of them are Dell and they work perfectly for me. My 2 desktops at home were built by me and are perfect of course.

There are scenarios were you really need a PC, either because of your work, the software is not available in a Mac, or pleasure, you are a hardcore gamer, you still need a PC.

My point is that Apple PCs are not "overpriced" if you really need the features they have. And yeah one of those features is being a closed system.
Save for the fact you can install Mac OS on a 13" Laptop with the same specs for $500 less Not sure why you'd want to though, 13" is just a smidge too small.
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Old 05-17-12, 12:35 PM   #1211
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

Well, pricing is interesting.

As mentioned, no one could say the iPad is overpriced when every other premium table is within a $100.

Same with the iPhone. Most every other top Android phone is the same money on initial release. At least the subsidized cost.

Is their Apple TV thing at $99 really that much more than other products?

iPods? Well if you look strictly at cost of memory, than yea. They probably are. But if you look at design, build and everything....well....the general public certainly seems to think they are a fair price. iPods are what, 85% of the MP3 market? (granted a much smaller market then it use to be).

So their computers are still higher than most. Meh....again, just being higher I don't think means overpriced. Tho for my use, I would never buy a $1,000 laptop. From anyone. I got in the habit of getting the best deal possible (or cheapest) and just replacing it every 2-3 years. That is till this year when I'm going to try to go iPad only. So from my perspective, even a PC laptop is overpriced if it over $500.

There is something to say about the business strategy of keeping things at a higher price, just for price sake. You look at say BMW and they don't have "give away" sales. And while last years models may be less than this, no drastically so (generally).

In fact, I could see Apple at least considering that some day. Not offer a "cheap" product, but another brand at a lower cost. But then, they love their Brand, so maybe not.
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Old 05-17-12, 12:55 PM   #1212
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

The iPad, at $500, isn't a bad deal, but they really dick you around with the memory. A 16gb iPad is $500; a 32gb is $600; a 64gb is $700. If you buy a 32gb, you're paying $100 for 16gb of flash memory. You can buy a 16gb USB drive for under $15 these days.

The iPod Classic is definitely over-priced; it's essentially a 160gb hard drive with a little LCD screen for $250.

The iPod Touches, starting at $200, isn't too bad of a deal, though the 8gb is really small for an mp3 player these days, especially when they play video and run apps. And, like the iPad, they dick you over if you want more storage.
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Old 05-17-12, 01:28 PM   #1213
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
Yeah, I think a lot of is build quality.
I agree with your point that Mac's aren't as overpriced as they used to be. The only thing they sell that is really overpriced IMO is their tower and the iMacs. At least the iMacs have a good build/form factor and awesome screen to justify the cost. They have no excuse for the tower.

Their computers are premium products that are built very well and generally hold up very well over time. It is silly to think that everyone who buys a Mac is a sheep.
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Old 05-18-12, 01:04 PM   #1214
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

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Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
The iPad, at $500, isn't a bad deal, but they really dick you around with the memory. A 16gb iPad is $500; a 32gb is $600; a 64gb is $700. If you buy a 32gb, you're paying $100 for 16gb of flash memory. You can buy a 16gb USB drive for under $15 these days.

The iPod Classic is definitely over-priced; it's essentially a 160gb hard drive with a little LCD screen for $250.

The iPod Touches, starting at $200, isn't too bad of a deal, though the 8gb is really small for an mp3 player these days, especially when they play video and run apps. And, like the iPad, they dick you over if you want more storage.
Well on the iPad I think you have to look at more than just GB. If you say the 16GB is a good deal, is the 32GB a bad deal or only a bad deal in compared to only getting 16GB more memory? Meaning by what you say you only think the 32GB is a bad deal because the 16GB is a $100 less. What if they had not offered a 16GB version (as was one rumor) this year and only offered the 32GB for $600. IMO, $600 for a 32GB standing on its own, is not a bad price. Especially compared to other non-Apple premium tablets.

Or what if with the New iPad, they raised the price of the 16GB version to $549 or $569 (which again was a rumor). If the 32GB was still $600 would you still think it a bad deal?

Pricing is so much more to Apple than profit. They use it as their Brand. They use pricing on the same product to attract the newbies as well as the tech guy.

Really the same on the iPod's. I actually think there is no real argument that iPod's are a good product at a reasonable price. Apple literally owns the iPod market. I mean, what 85% of MP3's sold are iPod's? You can't call that many people "sheep". And I would venture to guess many have the iPod as their only product (especially the kids). So they are not vested into Apple.
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Old 05-18-12, 01:19 PM   #1215
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

I think you're going to see a lot of heads explode if Apple is able to bring the 7" iPad to market at $199, as is rumored. I don't personally see it happening, $249 seems much more likely, but either price would be remarkable.
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Old 05-18-12, 02:31 PM   #1216
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

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I think you're going to see a lot of heads explode if Apple is able to bring the 7" iPad to market at $199, as is rumored. I don't personally see it happening, $249 seems much more likely, but either price would be remarkable.
WHY would they make a 7" iPad? Who is demanding this? They've got a winner in the iPad, a winner in the iPhone, and don't need a third product in the middle.

These rumors are just rumors, they are never sourced well and all they are meant to do is drive hits to tech blogs. It's infuriating.
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Old 05-18-12, 02:42 PM   #1217
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

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Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
Well on the iPad I think you have to look at more than just GB. If you say the 16GB is a good deal, is the 32GB a bad deal or only a bad deal in compared to only getting 16GB more memory? Meaning by what you say you only think the 32GB is a bad deal because the 16GB is a $100 less. What if...
You can't really base the idea of value on hypotheticals. Yes, charging $100 for an additional 16GB seems high due to the 16GB version costing $500, but $500 is an important price point that Apple had to hit for the iPad. A lot of people worried about the pricing of it ahead of time, some wondering if it wouldn't be closer to $1000. Even when the $500 price was announced, some still thought it was too high. It obviously wasn't, but Apple isn't about to drop their $500 model.

I don't think Josh-da-man's comparison to USB drives is apt, since the 32GB model has to fit that extra memory in the exact same space as 16GB fit, so it's not just a case of "adding on" memory of any physical size. There's also the concept that Apple does the same price hiking with the iPhone and iPod touch. However, it's hard to deny that the profit margins on these higher capacity versions are likely bigger.

Quote:
Really the same on the iPod's. I actually think there is no real argument that iPod's are a good product at a reasonable price. Apple literally owns the iPod market. I mean, what 85% of MP3's sold are iPod's? You can't call that many people "sheep".
The iPod has about 78% of the market, according to this article:
http://thenextweb.com/apple/2011/10/...player-market/

Apple had a huge advantage with the iPods in that their iTunes Music Store was initially only compatible with them, and no other audio players. Conversely, the iPod wasn't compatible with other music stores' DRM, and Apple went so far as to break compatiblity with RealNetwork's Rhapsody service when RealNetwork figured out a way to get its music on the iPod. It led to a class-action lawsuit against Apple:
http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/10/i...-class-action/

It was pretty much a vicious cycle where people who bought iPods had to use iTunes, and people who bought iTunes music had to buy iPods. It help that both iPod was an early leader in digital music players, and iTunes was the first major music service to carry music from all major labels. Sony was too busy trying to salvage MiniDisc to catch on to the MP3 player market, as were some other manufacturers. The iPod is a great music player, but it wasn't quality alone, or even competitive pricing, that lead it to the top.

With the iPod Touch, it had the advantage that Google wouldn't let Android manufacturers put Android Market (now Google Play) onto their music players, as Google considered anything not a phone a "tablet", until fairly recently.

So the dominance of iPod in the music player market isn't simply a case of everyone deciding independently to buy it. This doesn't mean these people were "wrong," to buy one, just that the iPod didn't become successful simply because it was the best value (it may very well not be).
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Old 05-18-12, 11:14 PM   #1218
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

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Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
You can't really base the idea of value on hypotheticals. Yes, charging $100 for an additional 16GB seems high due to the 16GB version costing $500, but $500 is an important price point that Apple had to hit for the iPad. A lot of people worried about the pricing of it ahead of time, some wondering if it wouldn't be closer to $1000. Even when the $500 price was announced, some still thought it was too high. It obviously wasn't, but Apple isn't about to drop their $500 model.

I don't think Josh-da-man's comparison to USB drives is apt, since the 32GB model has to fit that extra memory in the exact same space as 16GB fit, so it's not just a case of "adding on" memory of any physical size. There's also the concept that Apple does the same price hiking with the iPhone and iPod touch. However, it's hard to deny that the profit margins on these higher capacity versions are likely bigger.


The iPod has about 78% of the market, according to this article:
http://thenextweb.com/apple/2011/10/...player-market/

Apple had a huge advantage with the iPods in that their iTunes Music Store was initially only compatible with them, and no other audio players. Conversely, the iPod wasn't compatible with other music stores' DRM, and Apple went so far as to break compatiblity with RealNetwork's Rhapsody service when RealNetwork figured out a way to get its music on the iPod. It led to a class-action lawsuit against Apple:
http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/10/i...-class-action/

It was pretty much a vicious cycle where people who bought iPods had to use iTunes, and people who bought iTunes music had to buy iPods. It help that both iPod was an early leader in digital music players, and iTunes was the first major music service to carry music from all major labels. Sony was too busy trying to salvage MiniDisc to catch on to the MP3 player market, as were some other manufacturers. The iPod is a great music player, but it wasn't quality alone, or even competitive pricing, that lead it to the top.

With the iPod Touch, it had the advantage that Google wouldn't let Android manufacturers put Android Market (now Google Play) onto their music players, as Google considered anything not a phone a "tablet", until fairly recently.

So the dominance of iPod in the music player market isn't simply a case of everyone deciding independently to buy it. This doesn't mean these people were "wrong," to buy one, just that the iPod didn't become successful simply because it was the best value (it may very well not be).
I agree with you regarding the iPad. My point was that the comment about Apple "getting you" was really only in comparison to another Apple product. And I think you mentioned my point and said it better. They wanted to get the iPad sold at $500 even if they made less on it.

And let's not forget that in some ways Apple even gave you a viable option of essentially more memory for much less (or free) with iCloud. I would have gone 16 gb, but they only had the 32 in stock at the time. That and I won a large Apple store gift card, made it easy to grab a 32 gb version.

As for the iPod. Yes, I agree. In fact everything about Apple is more than the specs or the build quality, or the "value".
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Old 05-19-12, 07:51 PM   #1219
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

I'm here to talk about the Saddleback case again. This time Art of Manliness is having a giveaway for it. Here's the link:

http://artofmanliness.com/2012/05/18...case-giveaway/
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Old 05-19-12, 08:15 PM   #1220
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

Now that I can get on board with. Entered!
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Old 05-20-12, 12:46 AM   #1221
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

I finally gave in to temptation and picked up a Tom Bihn Ristretto for carrying my iPad and various accessories when I'm on the road. Yes, it's pricey, but I haven't seen a messenger-type bag that even comes close in terms of functional design and build quality. Anyone who is considering the Ristretto and is willing to spend the cash, I highly recommend it.
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Old 05-20-12, 08:05 AM   #1222
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

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I finally gave in to temptation and picked up a Tom Bihn Ristretto for carrying my iPad and various accessories when I'm on the road. Yes, it's pricey, but I haven't seen a messenger-type bag that even comes close in terms of functional design and build quality. Anyone who is considering the Ristretto and is willing to spend the cash, I highly recommend it.
I looked at that one closely. Ended up with the Skooba. But again, decided I couldn't think of time when would only travel with my iPad. So far, if I want to just take the iPad with me to lunch, I just carry by itself.

I ended up not sending the skooba back. Kept just in case of a quick weekend trip. Right now still using the full sized Timbuk2 Commuter. Still not entirely sold on this type bag. But haven't had to travel with it yet. So will see.

I am toying with getting a non-compact digital camera. Either a mirror less with interchangeable lenses or maybe a DSLR. So that might change what I use/get.
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Old 05-20-12, 09:30 AM   #1223
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

Afghan...guess I'm in the market for a new back cover. And I like the one I have. But I have to remove it to use the camera adapter which is a pain.

But I like the apple smat cover. I often remove it all together.
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Old 05-20-12, 12:11 PM   #1224
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

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I looked at that one closely. Ended up with the Skooba. But again, decided I couldn't think of time when would only travel with my iPad. So far, if I want to just take the iPad with me to lunch, I just carry by itself.

I ended up not sending the skooba back. Kept just in case of a quick weekend trip. Right now still using the full sized Timbuk2 Commuter. Still not entirely sold on this type bag. But haven't had to travel with it yet. So will see.

I am toying with getting a non-compact digital camera. Either a mirror less with interchangeable lenses or maybe a DSLR. So that might change what I use/get.
Day to day I just use the Toblino case, which offers more than enough protection. But with the Ristretto, I have enough room or my Bluetooth keyboard, Canon Powershot G-12, charger, earbuds, camera connection kit, HDMI connector for streaming to a hotel TV, and a couple of other odds and ends.

But yeah, no way would it fit a DSLR.
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Old 05-20-12, 12:19 PM   #1225
Chrisedge
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Join Date: Jun 1999
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Re: Are you getting an iPad 3?

The thing I didn't like about my Timbuk2 bag was stuff could fall out of it if I layed it flat. Everything small had to go into the zipper part, and I would have preferred a zipper to just keep the whole thing closed.
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