Windows 7 Discussion Thread - Page 6

Raul3 · 06-26-09, 04:28 PM

I was thinking on getting a Technet sub, it's $250 right now with a code, but after learning that you can do a clean install and do the upgrade to 64 bit, I'm getting the $50 upgrade from Amazon.

Jay G. · 06-26-09, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowmaker

So you're talking big programs like CAD or documentaion control type stuff? My MS Office will still work, right?

Anything that runs in Vista should run in Windows 7.

I think SomethingMore is referring to the XP Mode (XPM) that's available as a free download for Windows 7 Pro and Ultimate users. It's basically a copy of XP running in Virtual PC that you can use to install XP compatible apps and access via RemoteApps.

One interesting feature of XPM is that since it's a virtual 32-bit environment, if you get Windows 7 64-bit, you can install XPM and run 16-bit apps in it (you can't run 16-bit apps natively in any 64-bit version of Windows XP, Vista, or 7).

Here's some comparison tables between the different editions:
http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/win7_skus_compare.asp
http://www.mydigitallife.info/2009/0...es-comparison/

Note that XPM isn't included on those charts, as it's a new feature that will be available separately via download. There may be other programs/features that MS will provided only to specific editions of Windows, although I don't know of any.

RayChuang · 06-27-09, 06:20 AM

Unless you work in a corporate environment that has to run Windows XP-compatible apps, the XP compatbility box in Windows 7 is of no use to most users anyway. Especially nowadays since most modern apps run in Windows Vista mode (32/64-bit), including most games written in the last two years.

Nifty03 · 06-27-09, 07:40 AM

DJ_Longfellow · 06-27-09, 10:44 AM

I didn't read through all of this, I currently have a 32bit version of Vista installed, however, I can get a 64bit through my school for free (nice of them). If I buy a Windows 7 upgrade, it includes both 32 and 64 bit so I can choose, correct?

Jay G. · 06-27-09, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ_Longfellow

If I buy a Windows 7 upgrade, it includes both 32 and 64 bit so I can choose, correct?

Yes, the Windows 7 discs contain both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions on the same disc. If you purchase the download directly from Microsoft, they give you download access to both versions as well.

kenbuzz · 06-27-09, 11:44 AM

We've got 7 'puters in our household, and I'm trying to figure out which ones to move to Windows 7 and which to just leave alone - be it because the machines won't support Win7 or because there's little need to make the $50 move for them:

ICKEY (Fileserver) = Inspiron 2350 (Celeron 1.7GHz, XP Home, 728MB RAM)
WHODEY (Kiosk Laptop) = Inspiron 1150 (Celeron 2.6GHz, XP Home, 512MB RAM)
BOOMER (My Work Laptop) = Inspiron 1150 (Celeron 2.6GHz, XP Home, 1GB RAM)
CHAD85 (Son's Workstation) = Optiplex GX260 (Pentium 4 1.8GHz, XP Pro, 256MB RAM)
MARVIN (Wife's School) = Inspiron Desktop 530S (Pentium Dual E2180 2.0GHz, Vista Home Premium 2GB RAM)
K-BOOK (My Netbook) = ASUS Eee PC 900/XP (Celeron 900MHz, XP Home, 2GB RAM)
J-BOOK (Wife's Netbook) = ASUS Eee PC 900/XP (Celeron 900MHz, XP Home, 1GB RAM)

Yeah, all the names 'cept the two new netbooks are all Bengal-themed, and apart from the fileserver they've all got 6-character names. It's our household's 'thing'.

Upgrading MARVIN is a no-brainer... that's her school system and it's the only one we've put Vista or Office 2007 or any of the specific apps that IU insists she have onto. My little boy has his own system (CHAD85) -we picked it up cheap from an IU surplus hardware auction - that we let him use to Google and YouTube and play educational games on. It's terribly slow and underpowered, and I don't think Win7 is a viable candidate there. Ditto for our two Netbooks. Processors are slowish, SSD space is at a premium, works well under XP for what they need to do (surf the web, take minutes during meetings, access shared files while on business trips).

The other three systems, I'm unsure about. The fileserver (ICKEY) is my original desktop system from several years ago. It's used primarily to keep our music library on, handle print jobs, and controls our router. It's also used for archiving and backups. The RAM maxes out at 1GB. The two laptops (WHODEY and BOOMER) are virtually identical except mine has a larger screen, an internal wireless adapter, and more RAM. WHODEY is used as a Kiosk machine in our kitchen, used primarily for access to the web (and DVDTalk). BOOMER used to be the laptop I schlepped with me everywhere, but since I got my Netbook it's been gathering dust. I don't know if any of these are viable Win7 candidates, due to how we use them and their limited power/RAM.

Any recommendations? Win7 for MARVIN only?

al_bundy · 06-27-09, 12:09 PM

Are you really going to spend money to upgrade?

fumanstan · 06-27-09, 12:15 PM

I'd say only MARVIN.

Snowmaker · 06-27-09, 06:16 PM

OK, next clueless question: What is the difference between 32-bit and 64-bit Windows 7versions?

The Upgrade check on the Microsoft site is telling me my 1 GB of RAM is sufficient for the 32-bit, but I'd need 2 GB of RAM for the 64-bit.

kenbuzz · 06-27-09, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fumanstan

I'd say only MARVIN.

Yeah, that's kinda what I figured. I'll let my wife go swimming in the world of Windows 7 while the boy and I wallow in the murky, but stable, world of XP. Thanks!

Jay G. · 06-27-09, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowmaker

OK, next clueless question: What is the difference between 32-bit and 64-bit Windows 7versions?

The Upgrade check on the Microsoft site is telling me my 1 GB of RAM is sufficient for the 32-bit, but I'd need 2 GB of RAM for the 64-bit.

64-bit is the next generation. The main advantage to most users is the ability to use a full 4GB or more of RAM. 32-bit Windows is limited to a 4GB memory address space, and some of that is used to communicate with peripherals, or by graphics memory, so is limited to utilizing only around 3.5GB or less of RAM.

Since 64-bit is newer, it has some limitations. Driver support in the 64-bit Windows is more limited than 32-bit Windows, although this has improved dramatically since Vista came out. Also, it will not run 16-bit apps. Windows 3.11 was the last 16-bit version of Windows, but some older programs are still 16-bit.

Basically, at this point you're not losing anything installing 32-bit Windows on a 1GB machine instead of 64-bit Windows. Only if the machine was more powerful or had more than 3GB or RAM would I suggest using 64-bit Windows.

bwvanh114 · 06-27-09, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay G.

Also, it will not run 16-bit apps. Windows 3.11 was the last 16-bit version of Windows, but some older programs are still 16-bit.

Like what? King's Quest II?

Jay G. · 06-28-09, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwvanh114

Like what? King's Quest II?

Yes, but that's a DOS game, so I don't even know if it runs properly in 32-bit Windows anymore.

At work, we use an auction catalog that's released on CD once a year. The program on the disc is about 12 years old, with the publisher just updating the database each year. I tried running it on my Vista 64 work PC to discover it's a 16-bit app.

There may be other instances where a program needed for work or other uses hasn't been updated in years, because the publisher either abandoned the software or went out of business, or because they haven't updated it yet.

There's workarounds for this. XP Mode for Windows 7 Professional and up runs a virtual 32-bit XP, so someone with Windows 7 64-bit could run a 16-bit app within XPM.
http://blogs.msdn.com/virtual_pc_guy...t-windows.aspx

Ranger · 06-28-09, 01:27 AM

So that XP Mode in Win7 is like win95 mode in ShittyP? Both would run 16-bit DOS apps?

Jay G. · 06-28-09, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger

So that XP Mode in Win7 is like win95 mode in ShittyP? Both would run 16-bit DOS apps?

There's actually still a Windows 95 compatibility mode in Windows 7, and in 32-bit Windows 7, it still should be able to run old 16-bit programs.

XPM is an all-new method where a complete install of XP runs in a virtual machine. This is different than the compatibility layers in previous versions of Windows.

wmansir · 06-28-09, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenbuzz

Any recommendations? Win7 for MARVIN only?

I agree just MARVIN, but you might want to look at Home Server for your file server.

SPIDERone · 06-28-09, 03:39 AM

Sorry that I didn't read this yet - going to go through it this coming week though.

I've heard Win 7 was completely 64-bit (but it sounds like it can be 32 or 64)?

I'm running Vista premium 32bit right now (since I heard 64 had compatability problems). Will all of my applications work in Windows 7 the same way, or do I need to wait for compatability upgrades (I'm not sure if software needs these, or only hardware)? I know some software has required specific versions to run (itunes for example needed XP, Vista or Win 2000) - will this be a problem when 7 comes out (not specifically with itunes).

Also, running the Win7 Upgrade Advisor, everything was fine with the exception of my WD external hard drive - no drivers available. Do I just need to assume that it won't work until a driver is released, or will there likely be a way to use it in some type of compatability mode (with the vista driver) if a Win7 driver isnt released?

wmansir · 06-28-09, 06:41 AM

Compatibility between Vista and Windows 7 should be near 100%, so if your software/driver works on Vista it should work with Win7. Are you sure your external HD even needs a driver? Most will be detected without one. Check the WD site to see if there is even a XP/Vista driver available to download.

As far as 32bit vs 64bit, both Vista and Win7 64bit versions have 32 bit virtual environment they run any 32 bit programs in. The biggest issue is hardware drivers and some system utilities, but normal desktop programs mostly work without any issues. Personally I wouldn't go 64-bit unless you had a specific program that needs it, or your running 4+GB of RAM. It's not a major hassle, most of the time, but without a specific need there is little upside.

TLwizard · 06-28-09, 05:16 PM

Is Remote Desktop Host the same as Remote Desktop Connection? If I currently connect to a server using RDC, does that mean I have to go for the Pro version?

Drexl · 06-28-09, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLwizard

Is Remote Desktop Host the same as Remote Desktop Connection? If I currently connect to a server using RDC, does that mean I have to go for the Pro version?

No. The server to which you connect would need that feature.

TLwizard · 06-28-09, 05:25 PM

Got it. Thanks.

al_bundy · 06-28-09, 08:33 PM

the only issues i've had with windows 7 have been AV software compatibility, java compatibility and VMWare management software issues

Dave99 · 06-29-09, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by al_bundy

the only issues i've had with windows 7 have been AV software compatibility, java compatibility and VMWare management software issues

If you are trying to use the vsphere client, there is a un-official fix in the vmware forums. It's pretty quick & easy. Works fine on my machine after.

al_bundy · 06-29-09, 01:28 PM

someone sent it to me. tried it, didn't work but i didn't have a lot of time to mess with it. going to try again later.

i ended up putting my desktop back to Vista SP2. i set up a Vista SP2 VMWare image for myself as well for a "PC" in the datacenter. and my laptop is Windows 7 x64 even though it's only 2GB RAM. just to play with it.

VPN is also a big issue. i played with the XP compatibility VM thing that MS has and VMWare. either one works. our checkpoint vpn client works fine in vista x86.

the Vista VPN client will connect to a lot of VPN's, but Checkpoint requires it's own client

06-26-09, 04:28 PM	#126
Raul3 DVD Talk Gold Edition Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Picture a cup in the middle of the sea Posts: 2,887	Re: Windows 7 Discussion Thread I was thinking on getting a Technet sub, it's $250 right now with a code, but after learning that you can do a clean install and do the upgrade to 64 bit, I'm getting the $50 upgrade from Amazon. __________________ --------- Xbox Live: rsra13 PSN: rsra13

06-27-09, 06:20 AM	#128
RayChuang DVD Talk Gold Edition Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,114	Re: Windows 7 Discussion Thread Unless you work in a corporate environment that has to run Windows XP-compatible apps, the XP compatbility box in Windows 7 is of no use to most users anyway. Especially nowadays since most modern apps run in Windows Vista mode (32/64-bit), including most games written in the last two years. __________________ Raymond in Sacramento, CA I reject your reality and substitute my own! -- Adam Savage, Mythbusters

06-27-09, 07:40 AM	#129
Nifty03 DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Waiting for the Zombiepocalypse Posts: 1,978	Re: Windows 7 Discussion Thread __________________ Not another funny Signature. Steam Community: Nifty03

06-27-09, 10:44 AM	#130
DJ_Longfellow DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Michigan Posts: 6,225	Re: Windows 7 Discussion Thread I didn't read through all of this, I currently have a 32bit version of Vista installed, however, I can get a 64bit through my school for free (nice of them). If I buy a Windows 7 upgrade, it includes both 32 and 64 bit so I can choose, correct? __________________ XBOX Gamertag: DJ Doubledown PS3 Gamertag: Johnnie5

06-27-09, 11:44 AM	#132
kenbuzz DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Bloomington, IN Who Dey! Posts: 10,345	Re: Windows 7 Discussion Thread We've got 7 'puters in our household, and I'm trying to figure out which ones to move to Windows 7 and which to just leave alone - be it because the machines won't support Win7 or because there's little need to make the $50 move for them: ICKEY (Fileserver) = Inspiron 2350 (Celeron 1.7GHz, XP Home, 728MB RAM) WHODEY (Kiosk Laptop) = Inspiron 1150 (Celeron 2.6GHz, XP Home, 512MB RAM) BOOMER (My Work Laptop) = Inspiron 1150 (Celeron 2.6GHz, XP Home, 1GB RAM) CHAD85 (Son's Workstation) = Optiplex GX260 (Pentium 4 1.8GHz, XP Pro, 256MB RAM) MARVIN (Wife's School) = Inspiron Desktop 530S (Pentium Dual E2180 2.0GHz, Vista Home Premium 2GB RAM) K-BOOK (My Netbook) = ASUS Eee PC 900/XP (Celeron 900MHz, XP Home, 2GB RAM) J-BOOK (Wife's Netbook) = ASUS Eee PC 900/XP (Celeron 900MHz, XP Home, 1GB RAM) Yeah, all the names 'cept the two new netbooks are all Bengal-themed, and apart from the fileserver they've all got 6-character names. It's our household's 'thing'. Upgrading MARVIN is a no-brainer... that's her school system and it's the only one we've put Vista or Office 2007 or any of the specific apps that IU insists she have onto. My little boy has his own system (CHAD85) -we picked it up cheap from an IU surplus hardware auction - that we let him use to Google and YouTube and play educational games on. It's terribly slow and underpowered, and I don't think Win7 is a viable candidate there. Ditto for our two Netbooks. Processors are slowish, SSD space is at a premium, works well under XP for what they need to do (surf the web, take minutes during meetings, access shared files while on business trips). The other three systems, I'm unsure about. The fileserver (ICKEY) is my original desktop system from several years ago. It's used primarily to keep our music library on, handle print jobs, and controls our router. It's also used for archiving and backups. The RAM maxes out at 1GB. The two laptops (WHODEY and BOOMER) are virtually identical except mine has a larger screen, an internal wireless adapter, and more RAM. WHODEY is used as a Kiosk machine in our kitchen, used primarily for access to the web (and DVDTalk). BOOMER used to be the laptop I schlepped with me everywhere, but since I got my Netbook it's been gathering dust. I don't know if any of these are viable Win7 candidates, due to how we use them and their limited power/RAM. Any recommendations? Win7 for MARVIN only? __________________ Keep your head down and mind your own business. As long as it's not hurting you, who cares what anybody else does? - Nazgul 8-10-08 Obviously some people understand college football and others don't. Those who want playoffs belong in the latter. - namja, 12-03-08

06-27-09, 12:09 PM	#133
al_bundy DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Transfatfreeville Posts: 22,214	Re: Windows 7 Discussion Thread Are you really going to spend money to upgrade?

06-27-09, 12:15 PM	#134
fumanstan DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Irvine, CA Posts: 22,216	Re: Windows 7 Discussion Thread I'd say only MARVIN. __________________ XBox Live: Fu Man Stan "I've never derived "joy" from either comicbooks or torture porn, so you can imagine how I feel about the mainstream marriage of the two in The Dark Knight" - baracine

06-27-09, 06:16 PM	#135
Snowmaker DVD Talk Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 9,884	Re: Windows 7 Discussion Thread OK, next clueless question: What is the difference between 32-bit and 64-bit Windows 7versions? The Upgrade check on the Microsoft site is telling me my 1 GB of RAM is sufficient for the 32-bit, but I'd need 2 GB of RAM for the 64-bit. __________________ My Blu-rays & DVDs at dvdaficionado.com GO BLUE!

06-28-09, 01:27 AM	#140
Ranger DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 15,845	Re: Windows 7 Discussion Thread So that XP Mode in Win7 is like win95 mode in ShittyP? Both would run 16-bit DOS apps?

06-28-09, 03:39 AM	#143
SPIDERone Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 487	Re: Windows 7 Discussion Thread Sorry that I didn't read this yet - going to go through it this coming week though. I've heard Win 7 was completely 64-bit (but it sounds like it can be 32 or 64)? I'm running Vista premium 32bit right now (since I heard 64 had compatability problems). Will all of my applications work in Windows 7 the same way, or do I need to wait for compatability upgrades (I'm not sure if software needs these, or only hardware)? I know some software has required specific versions to run (itunes for example needed XP, Vista or Win 2000) - will this be a problem when 7 comes out (not specifically with itunes). Also, running the Win7 Upgrade Advisor, everything was fine with the exception of my WD external hard drive - no drivers available. Do I just need to assume that it won't work until a driver is released, or will there likely be a way to use it in some type of compatability mode (with the vista driver) if a Win7 driver isnt released?

06-28-09, 06:41 AM	#144
wmansir DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Land of the Lobstrosities Posts: 5,877	Re: Windows 7 Discussion Thread Compatibility between Vista and Windows 7 should be near 100%, so if your software/driver works on Vista it should work with Win7. Are you sure your external HD even needs a driver? Most will be detected without one. Check the WD site to see if there is even a XP/Vista driver available to download. As far as 32bit vs 64bit, both Vista and Win7 64bit versions have 32 bit virtual environment they run any 32 bit programs in. The biggest issue is hardware drivers and some system utilities, but normal desktop programs mostly work without any issues. Personally I wouldn't go 64-bit unless you had a specific program that needs it, or your running 4+GB of RAM. It's not a major hassle, most of the time, but without a specific need there is little upside. __________________ wes

06-28-09, 05:16 PM	#145
TLwizard DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,933	Re: Windows 7 Discussion Thread Is Remote Desktop Host the same as Remote Desktop Connection? If I currently connect to a server using RDC, does that mean I have to go for the Pro version?

06-28-09, 05:25 PM	#147
TLwizard DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,933	Re: Windows 7 Discussion Thread Got it. Thanks.

06-28-09, 08:33 PM	#148
al_bundy DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Transfatfreeville Posts: 22,214	Re: Windows 7 Discussion Thread the only issues i've had with windows 7 have been AV software compatibility, java compatibility and VMWare management software issues

06-29-09, 01:28 PM	#150
al_bundy DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Transfatfreeville Posts: 22,214	Re: Windows 7 Discussion Thread someone sent it to me. tried it, didn't work but i didn't have a lot of time to mess with it. going to try again later. i ended up putting my desktop back to Vista SP2. i set up a Vista SP2 VMWare image for myself as well for a "PC" in the datacenter. and my laptop is Windows 7 x64 even though it's only 2GB RAM. just to play with it. VPN is also a big issue. i played with the XP compatibility VM thing that MS has and VMWare. either one works. our checkpoint vpn client works fine in vista x86. the Vista VPN client will connect to a lot of VPN's, but Checkpoint requires it's own client