Windows 7 Discussion Thread

[twikoff]

i didnt pay attention.. but i assume the public beta is the ultimate release

[printerati]

[Jay G.]

Originally Posted by twikoff

i didnt pay attention.. but i assume the public beta is the ultimate release

Yes, the keys MS has given out for the beta are for the Ulitmate Edition of Windows 7. You might be able to install another version of 7 by not entering a key, but you won't be able to activate it.

[RayChuang]

Actually, from the description given by Microsoft, the intended market for Windows 7 Home Premium and Professional editions are going back to same way Microsoft did it with Windows XP.

The stuff in the full Windows 7 Ultimate edition beyond Windows 7 Professional are rarely used and won't be of interest to most desktop computer users anyway.

[twikoff]

Originally Posted by RayChuang

The stuff in the full Windows 7 Ultimate edition beyond Windows 7 Professional are rarely used and won't be of interest to most desktop computer users anyway.

but you had to get vista ultimate to get holdem!

[twikoff]

the system Im planning to rebuild is my main media center pc
anyone using the media center function on win7? does it work ok?

[GizmoDVD]

Originally Posted by GizmoDVD

Ok, great. A free look until August is fine - I can decide if I want to keep two OSs or not

Grr. Got W7 installed...yet I need another 5GB of space for Windows programs. Anyway I can make my partition (currently 20GB) any bigger without re-installing everything?

[Jay G.]

Originally Posted by GizmoDVD

Grr. Got W7 installed...yet I need another 5GB of space for Windows programs. Anyway I can make my partition (currently 20GB) any bigger without re-installing everything?

How big is your harddrive?

There are ways to resize the OS X partition in Leopard, and there are ways to resize the Windows partition from within Vista (and presumably Windows 7), but I don't know how well either of those resize procedures play with Boot Camp. As a warning, you could potentially make your system unbootable.

http://www.creativetechs.com/iq/leop...artitions.html
http://en.kioskea.net/faq/sujet-319-...disk-partition

[Jay G.]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124018108488732939.html

Microsoft Gambles on Windows 7 'Starter'
Microsoft Corp. is taking an unusual approach with its new Windows 7 operating system: Customers buying many of the least-expensive laptops [netbooks] with the software are likely to be limited to running three applications at a time and miss out on other key features, or pay for an upgrade...

..the company takes in less than $15 per netbook for Windows XP... far less than the estimated $50 to $60 it receives for PCs running Windows Vista...

Customers who aren't satisfied will have the option to pay an additional fee to upgrade to a higher-end version of the software, a process that will involve unlocking advanced Windows 7 features that are already stored on their PCs. Pricing for Starter, or for the upgrade, isn't yet known.

Another article mentions that Window 7 Home Premium will offered to netbook manufacturers, but likely at the same price as for standard laptops/desktops.

The Starter Edition is intended to allow netbook manufacturers to keep to price point on their Windows models cheap, while encouraging consumers to upgrade after they get frustrated with Starter's limitations.

A lot of manufacturers and analysts are thinking this is a bad move, as it looks like MS is deliberately crippling Windows 7 in comparison to Windows XP on netbooks.

[Sdallnct]

I'm running XP on my new netbook. Some of the netbook forums are suggesting Win 7 is the way to go and that your system will be "faster" with Win 7.

I'm tempted, but not sure.

[RichC2]

I have an Asus eeePC 1000 (the one with the 40gb ssd) and Windows 7 runs well on it with all Aero effects turned on.

That said, I don't know that it's better than XP. Not yet at least.

Win7 on my home PC runs like a champ though, really solid OS thus far.

[Raul3]

Wifi runs faster in my Acer with Win7. Of course I'm running the Win 7 Ultimate beta.

[fumanstan]

As The Cow mentioned in the Vista/XP thread, there's going to be a virtualized Windows XP mode in 7.

http://community.winsupersite.com/bl...windows-7.aspx

http://www.withinwindows.com/2009/04...rt-1-overview/

Kinda neat.

[Jay G.]

Originally Posted by fumanstan

As The Cow mentioned in the Vista/XP thread, there's going to be a virtualized Windows XP mode in 7.

It seems to me to be very similar to the "Classic Environment" in OS X for PowerPC Macs that ran a complete OS 9 install under OS X.

Note that this is only being offered as a free downloadable add-on for the Professional, Ultimate, and Enterprise editions of Windows 7. Those with the Home Premium edition, or Vista, can accomplish a similar effect by installing Virtual PC (or other VM) and a licensed copy of XP. However, XPM saves the cost of an XP license, and has some integration features.

[UAIOE]

I can't wait to try that "XP mode" in the upcoming Win7 RC.

I wonder what the pricing for 7 is going to be when it comes out.

[al_bundy]

it will probably require you to have a very recent CPU as well

sounds like MS just added a mini hype-V to the desktop OS

[RichC2]

I doubt it'll require anything too terribly recent, XP VMs run well in most environments, I can't imagine this integrated one requiring too much more.

[UAIOE]

Originally Posted by al_bundy

it will probably require you to have a very recent CPU as well

sounds like MS just added a mini hype-V to the desktop OS

Well, I think my CPU will do alright considering I ran Vista (and Win 7) in Virtualbox.

[wmansir]

Originally Posted by RichC2

I doubt it'll require anything too terribly recent, XP VMs run well in most environments, I can't imagine this integrated one requiring too much more.

But one of the links said it requires CPU virtualization support, which is entirely separate from processing power. Most VMs today only require that if you want to host a 64bit OS. For Intel Virtualization isn't supported by any Celerons, a good number of Core2 chips, and older chips have spotty support. AMD has better consistency with most newish chips supporting it, except for the Semperon line.

[al_bundy]

Originally Posted by RichC2

I doubt it'll require anything too terribly recent, XP VMs run well in most environments, I can't imagine this integrated one requiring too much more.

the old vmware and virtualPC ran as an extra service on an OS. few years ago Intel released CPU's with instructions in the hardware to run virtualization a lot faster.

hyper-v and vmware are both considered bare metal hypervisors because they access the CPU directly and that requires a CPU with the special instructions. this will probably require it as well

[Jay G.]

Originally Posted by al_bundy

sounds like MS just added a mini [Hyper-V] to the desktop OS

From one of the above articles:
http://community.winsupersite.com/bl...windows-7.aspx

XPM is built on the next generation Microsoft Virtual PC 7 product line, which requires processor-based virtualization support (Intel and AMD) to be present and enabled on the underlying PC, much like Hyper-V, Microsoft's server-side virtualization platform. However, XPM is not Hyper-V for the client. It is instead a host-based virtualization solution like Virtual PC

So it's a new version of Virtual PC, not a mini-Hyper-V.

Originally Posted by al_bundy

hyper-v and vmware are both considered bare metal hypervisors because they access the CPU directly and that requires a CPU with the special instructions. this will probably require it as well

VMWare Workstation, VMware Fusion, VMWare Server and VMWare Player are still host-based VMs that run from within a host-based OS. VMWare ESX and ESXi are hypervisors.

A bare-metal hypervisor is called such because it doesn't run within a host OS. Rather, the hypervisor itself is the main OS, and all other OSes are run within it as guest OSes. The AMD-V and Intel-VT instruction sets are not required for running a hypervisor; rather, they are required by some OSes for running as guests within a VM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_vir...rdware_support
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xen_(vi...odified_guests

[Jay G.]

More info on the 3 application limit in Windows 7 Starter Edition.

From an article by Paul Thurrott:
http://community.winsupersite.com/bl...7-starter.aspx

It doesn't pop up that often. In fact, you will often have far more than three applications running before you see it. How is that?

One theory is that the built-in applications don't count, or perhaps its just Explorer-based apps. For example, you can launch SnagIt (third party app), WMP, and IE 8, and then launch Paint. No problem. [Then], launch WordPad. No complaints. Windows Anytime Upgrade.

But if you try to launch Windows Fax and Scan at this point ... bam.

Or Windows Live Photo Gallery. Blocked.

But launch Windows Explorer? No complaints. It starts right up.

OK, let's start over.

No apps are running. Launch, in order, SnagIt, Windows Live Photo Gallery, Windows Live Movie Maker, and then Windows Fax and Scan. No problem. That's four apps right there. Now launch IE 8 ... nope, it's blocked. But Windows Explorer will run. So will Windows Anytime Update. WMP? No.

Oh, and ESET NOD32 is running in the background the whole time.

Then, in the comments:

I've gotten the following reply, anonymously, about this limit:

Some built-in apps are excluded from the 3 app limit.

You can also work around it by launching apps like this from the command prompt:

C:\> write & "x:\path\to\app1" & "x:\path\to\app2" ... & "x:\path\to\appN"

Note: 'write' should be first in the list.

Apps launched from within another application (installers, for e.g.) do not count towards this limit.

Apps launched from the system notification area (system tray) do not count towards this limit.

These exclusions to the 3 apps limit are for compatibility reasons.

Hope this helps, --Paul

The combination of apps from the system tray being exempt, and apps launched from other apps being exempt, leads me to speculate whether people could easily circumvent the 3 app limit for all apps by simply running them from a system tray launcher like these:

http://www.alentum.com/alaunch/
http://www.microsystools.com/products/launcher/



Also, from this article:
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/software/0,3...9302159,00.htm

The three-app limit for Starter applies only to executables, and so doesn't include system processes such as anti-virus software running in the OS's background

Since services are exempt, one could theoretically use a tool like Winserv to run every app as a service.
http://sw4me.com/wiki/Winserv

[al_bundy]

downloaded the iso this morning, going to install it next week

[zuffy]

Downloading it now.

[Chrisedge]

I am running the beta (Build 7000?) on my Acer Aspire One Netbook (10.1 1gb 500gb HD) and it's running great. I don't like that the Classic Menu is gone, but other than that, it's been pretty smooth on the netbook (I run XP on the main partition)