usenet vs torrent

[buffotoad]

I don't know much about either. Is one better than the other - what are the pros & cons of each?

Thanks for any help.

[Nosebleed]

Usenet.

[twikoff]

of course, i assume you are only talking about for access to legal none copyrighted material!

i prefer usenet
biggest pro is that its much more anonymous
and much safer, since you're not 'sharing' anything
on the down side, only whats currently posted is available
and there is a higher learning curve

torrent will give you easier access to more data
torrent is a much easier target, if people are using it for illegal activity

[Nosebleed]

Sure, only what's posted on Usenet is available, but only a torrent that's seeded is actually available. Usenet is much more reliable in that respect. If something's posted, you can expect it to be there for 30-50 days (depending on your server) and you can expect to download as quickly as your connection will permit. Torrents go up and down and it can take days or even weeks for a download to complete. On the other hand, hard-to-find files can be found on torrent websites, whereas Usenet is usually home to "newer" files quicker, if you know what I mean. And, like twikoff mentioned, it's much mor anonymous, thus safer to use than torrents. Plus, with torrent websites, you have to piss around with registering/looking through 100 different sites if you want something in particular. With Usenet, just use a binaries search engine.

[dtcarson]

I fourth Usenet.
Pros:
* you're dl'ing from a news-server, not Joe Blow's 128k connection, assuming he remains online/sharing; so as long as it's on the server, you can get it, and generally much much quicker [I have dl'ed 5 MB files in about 20 seconds or less, whereas that same file might take 2-20 minutes via torrent]
* consistency--you're much more likely to get a file that is named correctly, and that is complete.
* you don't have to seed/share
* availability - most ISPs carrry 20k-50k+ newsgroups, with various retention rates, and if yours sucks, you can get a third party for less than 10 bucks a month
* easier to use -- like Nosebleed says, navigating the torrent sites is a pain, whereas newsgroup information is all stored in one place [assuming you're only using one provider].

Cons:
* more "reactive" than "proactive"--while you can search, you are limited to what is currently stored on the newsservers; this can change daily, which can be a good thing or a bad thing.
* learning curve - most of the 'good' newsreader programs have a slight learning curve. I spent some time learning Agent a few years back, and have been using it ever since.

[joeblow69]

I fifth Usenet. I use Grabit! for downloading, and HJSPlit to put the files back together. It's pretty easy.

[buffotoad]

Yes, I'm only talking about for access to legal non-copyrighted material.

Thanks for the explanations - I will find a newsreader and have a go at usenet.

[matome]

Originally Posted by buffotoad

Thanks for the explanations - I will find a newsreader and have a go at usenet.

Xnews -free & awesome

[Nosebleed]

Files you'll need:

Newsbin (the best newsreader)
DAMN NFO Viewer
QuickPar
WinRAR

For more help read Slyck's Guide to the Newsgroups.

[dtcarson]

Par files rock, and I'm surprised Winrar, with its better compression, isn't more widely used. I've always used Agent as a newsreader; though I've heard their latest versions are actually a step backwards.
Re: .nfo files; I've just associated .nfo with Notepad, and that seems to work fine.

[Nosebleed]

I did that too, but DAMN makes the NFOs look as they should and hyperlinks any URLs so you can easily visit a linked website.

[twikoff]

meh
been using agent for over 10 years now.. have tried all these crappy replacement news readers, and havent ever found one that i think matches up.

i use notepad for nfo files.. no need to add extra software for that

and yea.. winrar and quickpar are essentials

[twikoff]

Originally Posted by dtcarson

I've always used Agent as a newsreader; though I've heard their latest versions are actually a step backwards..

as i mentioned.. i have been using agent for over 10 years.. and hadnt upgraded to a new version in about the last 5-6 years..
i recently said what the hell and tries one of the latest releases..

at first it bothered me.. took some getting use to
but now that i have played with it some.. Im really digging some of their advancements... the only thing i didnt like was the way they have it configured to browse through groups you arent subscribed to.. you basically have to use the search feature for that.. but thats minor, and may actually be for the best... i mean, you could always just search for 'binaries' and browse through them all that way anyways..

ohhhh.. and with the new version.. they have a friggin deleted files section.. so when you delete headers & attachments, they go to trash.. so you have to dump trash or it keeps filling up.. Im sure there is a setting to turn that off, but Ive been too lazy to look

[Josh-da-man]

Usenet is good as long as you have access to a decent news server.

And speaking of news servers, the Earthlink servers have been shit for the past couple of weeks. Are they upgrading or just letting them go to hell?

[Nosebleed]

You still download headers? Doesn't Agent have NZB support? I haven't downloaded a header in at least a year. Oh, and DAMN is under 200KB. It's not like you have to install a bloated program, but I guess I can see why the lazy wouldn't want to download it.

[twikoff]

Originally Posted by Nosebleed

You still download headers? Doesn't Agent have NZB support? I haven't downloaded a header in at least a year. Oh, and DAMN is under 200KB. It's not like you have to install a bloated program, but I guess I can see why the lazy wouldn't want to download it.

never said i hadnt tried it
if you reread my messages.. youll see i said i had tried the other crap that has come out over the past decade + .. and havent found anything that i think is worth a damn.

[Nosebleed]

Originally Posted by twikoff

never said i hadnt tried it
if you reread my messages.. youll see i said i had tried the other crap that has come out over the past decade + .. and havent found anything that i think is worth a damn.

I got what you said the first time. I asked if you still waste time downloading headers. Unless you're confusing DAMN as some sort of newsreader.

[dtcarson]

Originally Posted by Nosebleed

You still download headers? Doesn't Agent have NZB support? I haven't downloaded a header in at least a year. Oh, and DAMN is under 200KB. It's not like you have to install a bloated program, but I guess I can see why the lazy wouldn't want to download it.

Is that really necessary?

I used to use Damn, and I've use NFOViewer, I think, in the past. I got a new computer. I don't click on links in nfo files, and they're small enough that I can manage scrolling down two screens to read it all. Why download a program when I have one that does just what I need? "Laziness" has nothing to do with it.

I do still download headers; I don't know if the version of Agent I'm using supports .nzb files [I don't know much about them], but when I browse the groups, I don't see many .nzb files posted.

[twikoff]

Originally Posted by Nosebleed

I got what you said the first time. I asked if you still waste time downloading headers. Unless you're confusing DAMN as some sort of newsreader.

ah.. i did assume damn was some sort of newsreader
for an nfo viewer.. doesnt seem worthwhile to me.. i rarely even open nfo files.. and if i do, its typically a 5 second process to open it, copy what i need, close it.. seems silly to install another application for that.

[Nosebleed]

Of course it's not necessary, but it can be handy from time to time. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I download a lot of NFO files and actually read the information that's contained within. So such a program is beneficial to me.

As for NZBs, they eliminate the need to browse through a newsgroup or spend an hour downloading/updating headers. There are a number of web-based sites where you can browse what's available in newsgroups then create an NZB file. What the NZB does is load only the files you want into your newsreader for downloading. See: binsearch.info, binaries.nl, and Easy News has something similiar for its members.

[twikoff]

i typically pull all the headers from my groups (i watch 15-20 groups daily, and quite a few others when im bored) in 2-3 minutes.. so i dont have to spend an hour downloading/updating headers
it use to take maybe 5-10 minutes with the old version of agent.. but the new version has 6 connections running at once by default and pulls all my groups headers in just a couple minutes max.. and Im typically browsing the first, while the others come in.. so thats minimal
just easier for me to browse through headers, select what i want, and download
rather than browse through, make a list, create a file, then download.
i dont really see the point in the extra steps

[Nosebleed]

Originally Posted by twikoff

i typically pull all the headers from my groups (i watch 15-20 groups daily, and quite a few others when im bored) in 2-3 minutes.. so i dont have to spend an hour downloading/updating headers
it use to take maybe 5-10 minutes with the old version of agent.. but the new version has 6 connections running at once by default and pulls all my groups headers in just a couple minutes max.. and Im typically browsing the first, while the others come in.. so thats minimal
just easier for me to browse through headers, select what i want, and download
rather than browse through, make a list, create a file, then download.
i dont really see the point in the extra steps

Years ago, I'd routinely have to wait 30-60 minutes to download a few million headers from a group. But if you're browsing small(er) groups and stay on top of your shit each day, I can see how it wouldn't be a problem. If that's the case, using a web-based search engine and creating NZBs would be extra work.

[dtcarson]

Originally Posted by Nosebleed

Of course it's not necessary, but it can be handy from time to time. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I download a lot of NFO files and actually read the information that's contained within. So such a program is beneficial to me.

No, we're all lazy and stupid, we don't read nfo files.

Maybe the .nfo files you're getting are longer/larger; it would take me longer to download that program than to read most of the nfo files I get. The benefits you've given for a stand-alone task-oriented nfo viewer do not sound like an improvement over simply using Notepad, for my uses.

Originally Posted by Nosebleed

As for NZBs, they eliminate the need to browse through a newsgroup or spend an hour downloading/updating headers. There are a number of web-based sites where you can browse what's available in newsgroups then create an NZB file. What the NZB does is load only the files you want into your newsreader for downloading.

So you browse websites, create an NZB file, load that into your newsreader, *then* go online to retrieve the bodies? I guess if your newsserver has hundreds of thousands of headers, if you're not joining parts, if you're on dialup, or if you're reading a thousand groups, that could be useful. I hit 'get new headers in subscribed groups', give it ten seconds to get started, then go through skimming and marking the headers to see what I want to download. By the time I get to the bottleneck group, all the headers are downloaded.
Even when I was on dialup, I just downloaded all the headers, marked what I wanted, purged the rest, then set the others to download, using DUNce and some Agent-restart program overnight or while I was at work [this was in the days of getting kicked off after 12 hours].
My connection is fast enough, and I read fast enough, combined with a good but growing set of kill/watch filters, that there's not a bottleneck. I'll admit I'm only subbed to about 50 newsgroups, but it takes less than two minutes to download headers. If I haven't checked in a week or so, it might take up to four, and most of that bottleneck is in one group.

What groups are you subbing to that you're seeing 'millions' of headers? Even when I let it slide a couple days, the largest I've seen is a couple hundred thousand. Does that count each *individual* header? Like I have it set to join parts; if not, a single 10MB file might be 100 separate posts which you would then have to manually join then download [or vice versa]. I will admit RoadRunner's binary retention is not the greatest, but still.

[twikoff]

yep.. its a daily routine for me (typically 2-3 times a day).. the groups I use are massive and if i let them slip for a few days, it would be an overwelming amount to browse through.

and when i recently moved to a new city.. i dumped my pay news service because the speed of my ISPs free service is blowing them away..

[dtcarson]

Originally Posted by twikoff

yep.. its a daily routine for me (typically 2-3 times a day).. the groups I use are massive and if i let them slip for a few days, it would be an overwelming amount to browse through.

If I go too long before checking [vacation or whatnot], I just 'catch up' with the heavy traffic groups. I know I'm missing some stuff, but I'll just start fresh, unless there's something I was particularly looking for/waiting for.

Originally Posted by twikoff

and when i recently moved to a new city.. i dumped my pay news service because the speed of my ISPs free service is blowing them away..

What pay news service did you use, and how many groups did you get/do you get? I've always just used whatever my ISP offered, which has been adequate for my needs.