Release List Reviews Shop Join News DVD Giveaways Video Games Advertise
DVD Reviews | Theatrical Reviews | Adult DVD Reviews | Video Game Reviews | Price Search Buy Stuff Here
DVD Talk
DVD Reviews DVD Talk Headlines HD Reviews


Add to My Yahoo! - RSS 2.0 - RSS 2.0 - DVD Talk Podcast RSS -


Go Back   DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Tech Talk

Tech Talk Discuss PC Hardware, Software, Internet and Other Technology

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-28-05, 12:39 PM   #1
freudguy
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,114
AMD sues Intel

http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/28/tech...reut/index.htm

Hmm, AMD sounds pissed. I bet the Apple announcement of going to Intel chips has AMD grasping at anything they can.
__________________
Good evening, I'm freudguy. Tits McGhee has the night off.

DVD Profiler
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-05, 08:42 PM   #2
Blake
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Blake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Orange
Posts: 7,736
Grasping? Did you by any chance see that huge fine levied by Japan against Intel for anti-competitive practices? They've been doing it for years and it's about time someone went after them - surprised the gov't hasn't yet.

You think it's because Dell thinks Intel is better that they only use Intel? No - AMD is cheaper, yet they use Intel because they get huge kickbacks - and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
__________________
=Blake=
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-05, 04:44 AM   #3
glassdragon
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Somewhere out there... YES THERE!!!
Posts: 7,936
Yeah, what Blake said. After owning an AMD i have to say that I could care less about intel. AMD's run just as well if not better than pentium chips
__________________

Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!


Psn - glsdragon
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-05, 08:06 AM   #4
freudguy
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,114
I realize that I probably used the wrong word. I do know of Intel's business practices & of the fines in Japan. I intended to make the point that AMD probably waited until now to sue due to the "good news" of Apple going to Intel chips. What has stopped them from suing them in the past?
__________________
Good evening, I'm freudguy. Tits McGhee has the night off.

DVD Profiler
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-05, 08:25 AM   #5
wmansir
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Land of the Lobstrosities
Posts: 9,219
From a PR perspective it's great timing for AMD. If they had done this years ago they would have come off as a second rate company attempting to bring Intel down legally because they couldn't compete technologically.
__________________
wes
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-05, 09:29 AM   #6
Sdallnct
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Home again, Big D
Posts: 19,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
Grasping? Did you by any chance see that huge fine levied by Japan against Intel for anti-competitive practices? They've been doing it for years and it's about time someone went after them - surprised the gov't hasn't yet.

You think it's because Dell thinks Intel is better that they only use Intel? No - AMD is cheaper, yet they use Intel because they get huge kickbacks - and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Well I think Dell uses Intel chips because Dell thinks it can sell more computers using Intel chips.

It may be a sort of chicken and the egg thing, which came first the big reputation or the being a bully.

I guess I don't know enough about the exact issues or exact law on some isssues, but when I read that particular article, I really didn't see the big deal. Intel trying to put AMD out of business. Big deal that's what competitors do. Intel gives "kickbacks" to companies if they buy so many chips. Big deal, Auto makers have been giving dealers kickbacks for years to sell certain brands/models of cars. And what "dire consequences" do you really think Intel was going to do? Send over the Soprano's and break some fingers???? No they likely would stop the kickbacks or charge Gateway more for Intel chips since they would be buying less chips. Again, big deal, I think unless a contract is signed Intel can charge whatever they want to whoever they want. If Dell buys a zillion chips from Intel, I would think Dell gets a better deal on those chips, then say Gateway who perhaps wanted to split their chip purchases between Dell and AMD and thus would be buying a lot less chips from Dell.

Anyway, the article concludes that consumers should have a choice. I'm not sure what they mean. Do they mean I should be able to buy a Dell computer with an AMD chip? That is Dell's choice and they will live or die by that choice. Do they mean AMD computers should be available to anyone? They are, I could go buy one right now, and often cheaper then an Intel based chip. But I prefered dealing with Dell and in part cause it had an Intel chip. But it was my choice.
__________________
Live Free. Dine Well. Drink good beer.

Home Theater Build
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-05, 09:34 AM   #7
Blake
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Blake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Orange
Posts: 7,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdallnct
Anyway, the article concludes that consumers should have a choice. I'm not sure what they mean. Do they mean I should be able to buy a Dell computer with an AMD chip? That is Dell's choice and they will live or die by that choice. Do they mean AMD computers should be available to anyone? They are, I could go buy one right now, and often cheaper then an Intel based chip. But I prefered dealing with Dell and in part cause it had an Intel chip. But it was my choice.
Sure, you should be able to buy a computer with an AMD chip from Dell - they've tried it and also considered bringing it back, but each time Intel steps in and offers them more money to be Intel only.

Also, I don't think consumers care. If a computer runs, there's a market for it. I really don't think they care if it's Intel or AMD. As far as I'm concerned, I don't really care either. I'm going to build a new computer soon with an AMD 64 chip because it's faster and cheaper than the Intel option.

I'm just curious as to why you would prefer an Intel chip. What do they offer that AMD doesn't? Hotter chips? Higher prices? There's got to be a reason you dealt with Dell other than the Intel chip - I would guess it was price - and I wonder how Dell can offer such cheap prices...sure volume helps, but those millions from Intel probably help too.
__________________
=Blake=
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-05, 10:07 AM   #8
wmansir
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Land of the Lobstrosities
Posts: 9,219
Also, AMD's charges go beyond Intel offering price/rebate incentives for volume purchases. Here's a more indepth article, along with some of the actions listed in the lawsuit:

*Forcing major customers such as Dell, Sony, Toshiba, Gateway, and Hitachi into Intel-exclusive deals in return for outright cash payments, discriminatory pricing or marketing subsidies conditioned on the exclusion of AMD;

*According to industry reports, and as confirmed by the JFTC in Japan, Intel has paid Dell and Toshiba huge sums not to do business with AMD.

*Intel paid Sony millions for exclusivity. AMD's share of Sony's business went from 23 percent in '02 to 8% in '03, to 0%, where it remains today.

*Forcing other major customers such as NEC, Acer, and Fujitsu into partial exclusivity agreements by conditioning rebates, allowances and market development funds (MDF) on customers' agreement to severely limit or forego entirely purchases from AMD;

*Intel paid NEC several million dollars for caps on NEC's purchases from AMD. Those caps assured Intel at least 90% of NEC's business in Japan and imposed a worldwide cap on the amount of AMD business NEC could do.

*Establishing a system of discriminatory and retroactive incentives triggered by purchases at such high levels as to have the intended effect of denying customers the freedom to purchase any significant volume of processors from AMD;

When AMD succeeded in getting on the HP retail roadmap for mobile computers, and its products sold well, Intel responded by withholding HP's fourth quarter 2004 rebate check and refusing to waive HP's failure to achieve its targeted rebate goal; it allowed HP to make up the shortfall in succeeding quarters by promising Intel at least 90% of HP's mainstream retail business.

*Threatening retaliation against customers for introducing AMD computer platforms, particularly in strategic market segments such as commercial desktop;

*Then-Compaq CEO Michael Capellas said in 2000 that because of the volume of business given to AMD, Intel withheld delivery of critical server chips. Saying "he had a gun to his head," he told AMD he had to stop buying.

*According to Gateway executives, their company has paid a high price for even its limited AMD dealings. They claim that Intel has "beaten them into 'guacamole'" in retaliation.

*Establishing and enforcing quotas among key retailers such as Best Buy and Circuit City, effectively requiring them to stock overwhelmingly or exclusively, Intel computers, artificially limiting consumer choice;

*AMD has been entirely shut out from Media Markt, Europe's largest computer retailer, which accounts for 35 percent of Germany's retail sales.

*Office Depot declined to stock AMD-powered notebooks regardless of the amount of financial support AMD offered, citing the risk of retaliation.

*Forcing PC makers and tech partners to boycott AMD product launches or promotions;

*Then-Intel CEO Craig Barrett threatened Acer's Chairman with "severe consequences" for supporting the AMD Athlon 64(tm) launch. This coincided with an unexplained delay by Intel in providing $15-20M in market development funds owed to Acer. Acer withdrew from the launch in September 2003.

*Abusing its market power by forcing on the industry technical standards and products that have as their main purpose the handicapping of AMD in the marketplace.

*Intel denied AMD access to the highest level of membership for the Advanced DRAM technology consortium to limit AMD's participation in critical industry standard decisions that would affect its business.

*Intel designed its compilers, which translate software programs into machine-readable language, to degrade a program's performance if operated on a computer powered by an AMD microprocessor.
__________________
wes
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-05, 10:33 AM   #9
Sdallnct
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Home again, Big D
Posts: 19,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
Sure, you should be able to buy a computer with an AMD chip from Dell - they've tried it and also considered bringing it back, but each time Intel steps in and offers them more money to be Intel only.

Also, I don't think consumers care. If a computer runs, there's a market for it. I really don't think they care if it's Intel or AMD. As far as I'm concerned, I don't really care either. I'm going to build a new computer soon with an AMD 64 chip because it's faster and cheaper than the Intel option.

I'm just curious as to why you would prefer an Intel chip. What do they offer that AMD doesn't? Hotter chips? Higher prices? There's got to be a reason you dealt with Dell other than the Intel chip - I would guess it was price - and I wonder how Dell can offer such cheap prices...sure volume helps, but those millions from Intel probably help too.
You are correct, I really don't care what chip is inside, I only care that I feel very comfortable the Dell will take care of me if there is any problems. And I feel that Dell uses the parts that is knows will cause the least problems (within reason of course).

I guess what I don't understand is why people think it is a problem that Intel wants Dell to only sell Intel? And why can't Intel offer lower prices or "kickbacks" or rebates or give bonuses to encourage Dell to deal with only them?

How is this different then when I go to a baseball game and they only sell Coke products? Or I go see my Cowboys and they only serve Miller beer? Or I call my local A/C company and they only sell Train units? I mean why does any dealer sell any particular product and not carry another?
__________________
Live Free. Dine Well. Drink good beer.

Home Theater Build
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-05, 10:45 AM   #10
Sdallnct
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Home again, Big D
Posts: 19,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmansir
Also, AMD's charges go beyond Intel offering price/rebate incentives for volume purchases. Here's a more indepth article, along with some of the actions listed in the lawsuit:

*Forcing major customers such as Dell, Sony, Toshiba, Gateway, and Hitachi into Intel-exclusive deals in return for outright cash payments, discriminatory pricing or marketing subsidies conditioned on the exclusion of AMD;

*According to industry reports, and as confirmed by the JFTC in Japan, Intel has paid Dell and Toshiba huge sums not to do business with AMD.

*Intel paid Sony millions for exclusivity. AMD's share of Sony's business went from 23 percent in '02 to 8% in '03, to 0%, where it remains today.

*Forcing other major customers such as NEC, Acer, and Fujitsu into partial exclusivity agreements by conditioning rebates, allowances and market development funds (MDF) on customers' agreement to severely limit or forego entirely purchases from AMD;

*Intel paid NEC several million dollars for caps on NEC's purchases from AMD. Those caps assured Intel at least 90% of NEC's business in Japan and imposed a worldwide cap on the amount of AMD business NEC could do.

*Establishing a system of discriminatory and retroactive incentives triggered by purchases at such high levels as to have the intended effect of denying customers the freedom to purchase any significant volume of processors from AMD;

When AMD succeeded in getting on the HP retail roadmap for mobile computers, and its products sold well, Intel responded by withholding HP's fourth quarter 2004 rebate check and refusing to waive HP's failure to achieve its targeted rebate goal; it allowed HP to make up the shortfall in succeeding quarters by promising Intel at least 90% of HP's mainstream retail business.

*Threatening retaliation against customers for introducing AMD computer platforms, particularly in strategic market segments such as commercial desktop;

*Then-Compaq CEO Michael Capellas said in 2000 that because of the volume of business given to AMD, Intel withheld delivery of critical server chips. Saying "he had a gun to his head," he told AMD he had to stop buying.

*According to Gateway executives, their company has paid a high price for even its limited AMD dealings. They claim that Intel has "beaten them into 'guacamole'" in retaliation.

*Establishing and enforcing quotas among key retailers such as Best Buy and Circuit City, effectively requiring them to stock overwhelmingly or exclusively, Intel computers, artificially limiting consumer choice;

*AMD has been entirely shut out from Media Markt, Europe's largest computer retailer, which accounts for 35 percent of Germany's retail sales.

*Office Depot declined to stock AMD-powered notebooks regardless of the amount of financial support AMD offered, citing the risk of retaliation.

*Forcing PC makers and tech partners to boycott AMD product launches or promotions;

*Then-Intel CEO Craig Barrett threatened Acer's Chairman with "severe consequences" for supporting the AMD Athlon 64(tm) launch. This coincided with an unexplained delay by Intel in providing $15-20M in market development funds owed to Acer. Acer withdrew from the launch in September 2003.

*Abusing its market power by forcing on the industry technical standards and products that have as their main purpose the handicapping of AMD in the marketplace.

*Intel denied AMD access to the highest level of membership for the Advanced DRAM technology consortium to limit AMD's participation in critical industry standard decisions that would affect its business.

*Intel designed its compilers, which translate software programs into machine-readable language, to degrade a program's performance if operated on a computer powered by an AMD microprocessor.
Thanks for the added info and article.

Again, I don't know the law. But the first several of those seem very common in the business world. For example, American Airlines will give my company a rebate ("kickback") if use use them so much through out the year. And that amount goes up, the more we use them. How is that any different then what Intel is doing?

I suppose there is a line that cannot be crossed. But what is it? I mean what if Dell said they were going to buy AMD chips, what is the worse that could happen? Wouldn't Intel have the right to no longer sell Dell chips? And if they decided not to sell any chips to anyone cause they were using AMD wouldn't that only help AMD? I realize that is over simplistic, but really what can Dell do? Charge a company more for buying their own chips? Doesn't that just encourage a company to look elsewhere like AMD?

See I think companies like Dell want the best of both worlds. They want the name recogonition and huge discounts that Intel can offer AND they want to buy chips from AMD. Now is that fair? Who know, but I think Intel has every right to charge whatever they want to whoever they want for whatever reason they want. And all computer makers have a valid, reasonable alternative in AMD.

IMHO it is the computer makers who have put themselves in this position. In trying to sell the most poplular name in chips at the lowest prices possible, they "made a deal with the devil", and now they want the rewards of that deal but none of the penalties. Dell only offered these lowest prices for being exclusive. Now the computer companies want the lowest price part and don't want to be exclusive.

In fact, I have yet to read where Dell has threatened to pull all its chips from any company. They only threatened to charge more for the chips. You would think this would play right into AMD's hands.

OH, and BTW, I don't work for Intel or any computer company.
__________________
Live Free. Dine Well. Drink good beer.

Home Theater Build
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-05, 12:18 PM   #11
wmansir
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Land of the Lobstrosities
Posts: 9,219
Claton Act (1914) Section 3

Sale, etc., on agreement not to use goods of competitor

It shall be unlawful for any person engaged in commerce, in the course of such commerce, to lease or make a sale or contract for sale of goods, wares, merchandise, machinery, supplies, or other commodities, whether patented or unpatented, for use, consumption, or resale within the United States or any Territory thereof or the District of Columbia or any insular possession or other place under the jurisdiction of the United States, or fix a price charged therefor, or discount from, or rebate upon, such price, on the condition, agreement, or understanding that the lessee or purchaser thereof shall not use or deal in the goods, wares, merchandise, machinery, supplies, or other commodities of a competitor or competitors of the lessor or seller, where the effect of such lease, sale, or contract for sale or such condition, agreement, or understanding may be to substantially lessen competition or tend to create a monopoly in any line of commerce.
__________________
wes
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-05, 12:32 PM   #12
Sdallnct
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Home again, Big D
Posts: 19,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmansir
Claton Act (1914) Section 3

Sale, etc., on agreement not to use goods of competitor

It shall be unlawful for any person engaged in commerce, in the course of such commerce, to lease or make a sale or contract for sale of goods, wares, merchandise, machinery, supplies, or other commodities, whether patented or unpatented, for use, consumption, or resale within the United States or any Territory thereof or the District of Columbia or any insular possession or other place under the jurisdiction of the United States, or fix a price charged therefor, or discount from, or rebate upon, such price, on the condition, agreement, or understanding that the lessee or purchaser thereof shall not use or deal in the goods, wares, merchandise, machinery, supplies, or other commodities of a competitor or competitors of the lessor or seller, where the effect of such lease, sale, or contract for sale or such condition, agreement, or understanding may be to substantially lessen competition or tend to create a monopoly in any line of commerce.
OK, so that is saying it is against the law for me to offer to sell my product to someone else at a cheaper rate so long as they don't use one of my competitors? Is that what it is saying? Well actually the final part of that also applies "to create a monopoly.........".

OK if that is the law, I understand. Buy why does it happen EVERYWHERE else?

-Pespi pays a grocery store more money if they can be at eye level on a shelf rather which pushes their competitors to an undesirable location in Te store.
-Almost every sports stadiums have exclusive rights with soda and beer companies to not sell a competitors product.
-Car repair places get better deals on from OEM parts to not carry non-OEM parts.
-Restaurants only carry one soda instead of several.
-Staples only carries name brand ink cartridges instead of off brand stuff.

There is only one real reason Dell does not buy AMD. They think they can make more money selling Intel. Now how is that possible? Intel is cutting them a better deal then AMD can. So are we saying Dell is losing money in order to prevent AMD from selling to Dell? How long can Dell lose money?

And for the sake of argument lets say Dell does agree to buy AMD, should not Dell be able to raise their prices because Dell does not buy as many chips from them anymore?

Anyway, if Intel is truly breaking laws then they should be punished or see about having the laws changed. But it appears they are being aggressive and their marketing strategy, nothing more.
__________________
Live Free. Dine Well. Drink good beer.

Home Theater Build
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-05, 01:08 PM   #13
wmansir
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Land of the Lobstrosities
Posts: 9,219
I don't think the monopoly standard is needed legally, but in reality it may be. The FTC has dismissed monopoly cases against Intel before, most recently in 2003 (for charges stemming from around 2000). I think the difference this time is that AMD has become a true competitor. Until 5 years ago Intel always put out a superior chip. It may have cost much more at retail, but it was faster, cooler, and/or more energy efficient than AMD's top product. Intel may have had to cut prices, but they didn't have to twist any arms to keep vendors from using AMD's inferior chips.

Now, any geek can look at the CPU market and see that AMD should be cleaning up in a free market. They have the superior product in key sectors, yet they have virtually no traction with PC makers. Why is that? I don't know, but I think this lawsuit might provide some answers.
__________________
wes

Last edited by wmansir; 06-29-05 at 01:12 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-05, 03:00 PM   #14
fumanstan
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rancho Santa Margarita, CA
Posts: 39,939
I think one thing to consider, as far as the comparison to airlines go, is that for consumer systems there really is only Intel and AMD. With only two companies and one of them already with a significantly larger market share, I would have to think that it becomes more of an issue.
__________________
3x Sheep Champion

VG Round 1b | VG Round 7 | NFL
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-05, 04:47 PM   #15
DivxGuy
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 3,988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdallnct
And why can't Intel offer lower prices or "kickbacks" or rebates or give bonuses to encourage Dell to deal with only them?
It's both illegal and a violation of ethics, that's why.
__________________
Blu-Ray: 32
HD-DVD: 17
DVD: 600+ and lost count
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-05, 06:15 PM   #16
ernestrp
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by glassdragon
Yeah, what Blake said. After owning an AMD i have to say that I could care less about intel. AMD's run just as well if not better than pentium chips
Me too. I doubt I would ever buy an Intel cpu again unless thats all there was or if Intel was actually better.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-05, 09:28 PM   #17
Sdallnct
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Home again, Big D
Posts: 19,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivxGuy
It's both illegal and a violation of ethics, that's why.
OK everyone has told me that and I get it. But what no one has told me is why every other company in every other sector can do it but Intel?

American Airlines gives "rebates" to companies at the end of the year based on how much that company uses AA. The more they use, the bigger the "rebate". Why, because AA only wants that company to us AA not any other competitor.

I go to a resturant and ask for a Coke, but I'm told they only sell Pepsi? Why would a resturant only sell one when they know roughly half the people like the other one? Because Pepsi made them a deal and sold them Pepsi cheaper if they would not sell Coke. Why? Because Pespi does not want the resturant to sell their competitors products.

I go to a ball game and ask for Bud, but they only sell Miller. Why? See the resturant example.

You ever see those large ads by Best Buy or other electronic stores that only have Pioneer or Sony products? You know why there is only one name brand? Because Sony (or whoever) paid for the ad as they want the store to sell more of it's products then their competitors.

I could go on and on. I'm just asking whey other companies are doing exactly what Intel is doing, everyone knows it and no one cares. It is just because no one else has taken action? It is maybe as fumanstan there is really only two chip makers and the difference between the two is so great? So it is ok to do these things as long as your not too good at it?
__________________
Live Free. Dine Well. Drink good beer.

Home Theater Build
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-05, 10:34 PM   #18
glassdragon
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Somewhere out there... YES THERE!!!
Posts: 7,936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdallnct
OK everyone has told me that and I get it. But what no one has told me is why every other company in every other sector can do it but Intel?

American Airlines gives "rebates" to companies at the end of the year based on how much that company uses AA. The more they use, the bigger the "rebate". Why, because AA only wants that company to us AA not any other competitor.

I go to a resturant and ask for a Coke, but I'm told they only sell Pepsi? Why would a resturant only sell one when they know roughly half the people like the other one? Because Pepsi made them a deal and sold them Pepsi cheaper if they would not sell Coke. Why? Because Pespi does not want the resturant to sell their competitors products.

I go to a ball game and ask for Bud, but they only sell Miller. Why? See the resturant example.

You ever see those large ads by Best Buy or other electronic stores that only have Pioneer or Sony products? You know why there is only one name brand? Because Sony (or whoever) paid for the ad as they want the store to sell more of it's products then their competitors.

I could go on and on. I'm just asking whey other companies are doing exactly what Intel is doing, everyone knows it and no one cares. It is just because no one else has taken action? It is maybe as fumanstan there is really only two chip makers and the difference between the two is so great? So it is ok to do these things as long as your not too good at it?

Those are good points, however it looks like intel is not just going up to the manufactures and saying "Buy our chips because they are better". It sounds like they are going up to them and giving them excellent deals. Then after they accept them they threated to take their deals elsewhere if they even look at amd's. Honestly, more people have heard of a pentium than an athlon so more people ask for it. Not having pentiums could be detrimental to a company while not having athlons wouldn't hurt the company as much. Intel knows this and is using it to it's advantage to bully out amd. As for the soda analogy, well i've seen both coke and pepsi at many places so i doubt they are going as far as intel is to get a place to only serve pepsi. I assume the choice of only carrying one product is just so that it would be easier for people to order and take up less menu space. Not only that, but a lot of those places that serve only pepsi are owned by pepsi in at least some small way
__________________

Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!


Psn - glsdragon
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-05, 02:40 AM   #19
Kumar J
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Berlin
Posts: 3,821
Intel is not only giving under money to the other computer makers, they are also threatning them.It's clearly a violations.If this case does not make any damage to Intel.What makes them stop at computer makers,they might even threaten the motherboard maker never to make a board for AMD.And that's it for AMD.Without support from motherboard makers they are doomed even they have a superior technology.And with them gone Intel will charge as much as it wants for a Chip.And then you have no choice to buy old technology for a premium price
__________________
Necessity is, after all, the mother of invention
PSN Tag: zamoch1t
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-05, 07:45 AM   #20
twikoff
DVD Talk God
 
twikoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Right Behind You!!!
Posts: 79,459
awww
poor amd
boohoo
we think we're a big boy, but they won't let us play

__________________
Do you live in Idaho or Wyoming? If so, its time to Check In!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-05, 08:50 AM   #21
Sdallnct
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Home again, Big D
Posts: 19,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kumar J
Intel is not only giving under money to the other computer makers, they are also threatning them.It's clearly a violations.If this case does not make any damage to Intel.What makes them stop at computer makers,they might even threaten the motherboard maker never to make a board for AMD.And that's it for AMD.Without support from motherboard makers they are doomed even they have a superior technology.And with them gone Intel will charge as much as it wants for a Chip.And then you have no choice to buy old technology for a premium price
Again, maybe I'm just dense on this subject and I'm about ready to let it go, but you say Intel is "threatening them". With what? Does Intel have some big knuckle draggers that will come over the beat the hell out of you if you use AMD chip? Of course not. So far the only "threat" is: If you use AMD we are going to charge you more for our products. And while this appears to be a violation, companies like Dell seemed to have a agreed so they could indeed make more money. And now they want to back out and sell AMD, but still want the added "discount" Intel was giving for being exclusive.

And many, many companies do this and do so out in the open. MasterCard charges a merchant a lower rate or pays them a fee to be the "Official Card" for that merchant and does so ONLY so long as that Merchant does not accept American Express. They even have commercials about it! It is EXACTLY what Intel is doing.

Now, in all the examples I have given there has been lots of competition and several competitors. So perhaps it really is the "monopoly" issue that comes into play. MasterCard might make a deal with Walt Disney World to not accept American Express, but we all know that American Express will be fine and people still use it (elsewhere). If Coke cuts a deal with a Baseball team to only serve their product, we all know Pepsi will continue to survive (and you can purchase Pepsi elsewhere). But in the case of AMD maybe it is getting to the point of much more of this and AMD will go out leaving only Intel for any computer maker, deals or not. While this seems like a reasonable explanation it also seems Intel has just done a great job. I remember when Intel started and they themselves were so low on cash they did not have enough to pay their employees. TI, IBM, and many other companies probably tried these same tactic's on Intel yet they are the ones to survive in making Chips.

I was going to start a thread in Otter, but IMHO this has more to do with "putting a giant in their place" then anything else. It seems we all say we want the American Dream, but not if you get too successful. For a long time Wal-Mart was a darling the little company out of AR, making good. Now they are the Devil. Bill Gates use to be a neat little story about the dude that worked in his mom's garage. Now he is Caesar reborn! Intel was a world showcase company showing how to manufacturer high quality chips at high speeds, now are spawn of Enron cheating their way to the top.
__________________
Live Free. Dine Well. Drink good beer.

Home Theater Build

Last edited by Sdallnct; 06-30-05 at 08:54 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-05, 09:05 AM   #22
twikoff
DVD Talk God
 
twikoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Right Behind You!!!
Posts: 79,459
that reminds me of the simpsons episode where bill gates offers to buy out homer's business (CompuGlobalHyperMegaNet)..

Quote:
Bill Gates: Mr. Simpson?
Homer: You don't look so rich...
Bill Gates: Don't let the haircut fool you, I am exceedingly wealthy.
Homer: [quietly] Get a load of the bowl-job, Marge!
-- "Das Bus"

Your Internet ad was brought to my attention, but I can't figure out what, if
anything, Compuglobalhypermeganet does, so rather than risk competing with
you, I've decided simply to buy you out.
-- Bill Gates, "Das Bus"

% Homer and Marge quietly discuss this proposal.

Homer: I reluctantly accept your proposal!
Bill Gates: Well everyone always does. Buy 'em out, boys!
[Gates' lackeys trash the room.]
Homer: Hey, what the hell's going on!
Bill Gates: Oh, I didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks! [insane
laughter]
__________________
Do you live in Idaho or Wyoming? If so, its time to Check In!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-05, 09:41 AM   #23
fumanstan
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rancho Santa Margarita, CA
Posts: 39,939
Quote:
Originally Posted by twikoff
awww
poor amd
boohoo
we think we're a big boy, but they won't let us play

I guess twikoff has an Intel processer
__________________
3x Sheep Champion

VG Round 1b | VG Round 7 | NFL
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-05, 10:18 AM   #24
twikoff
DVD Talk God
 
twikoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Right Behind You!!!
Posts: 79,459
Quote:
Originally Posted by fumanstan
I guess twikoff has an Intel processer
as does all of my non sun/hp servers

but regardless, if they cant stand the heat.. get out of the kitchen.
dont go running to mama that big brother isnt playing fair
__________________
Do you live in Idaho or Wyoming? If so, its time to Check In!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-05, 12:00 PM   #25
Birrman54
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Posts: 3,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by twikoff
as does all of my non sun/hp servers

but regardless, if they cant stand the heat.. get out of the kitchen.
dont go running to mama that big brother isnt playing fair
do you think we should have anti-trust laws in the US?

I also fail to see how AMD can't "take the heat", they make a superior (at the very least, equal) product, and have been slowly gaining market share. Intel threatening larger distributers to keep AMD from competing is hardly fair.

birrman54
  Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:30 AM.

Rules - DVD Talk - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
Copyright 2011 DVDTalk.com All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.