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Old 08-19-17, 10:11 AM   #1
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YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

I've had issues with buyers in the past, but this guy is rally aggravating.

I sold a new sealed imported Region 2 DVD on Ebay. I had bought it but never watched it. I ended up being able to stream the entire series so I didn't see any need to have the DVD. I listed the DVD on eBay with it being clearly labled that it is region 2 and will not work on U.S. players without having a region free player. I list this in big letters right at the top of the listing. It starts with "Please read the entire description before making purchase" Than I expressly state it is Region 2 and all about Region 2 DVD'S. I even have listed in the term that it cannot be returned unless defective and claims for opened defective merchandise would be replaced with the same item and no money refunds would be given.

So this idiot buys it, a few weeks later emails me and says it won't work on his player because it only plays U.S. dvd's and he's like to return it and for me to send him the U.S. version. I told him I don't have a U.S. version and it was listed as Region 2 in the description.

He files an Ebay dispute saying the item wasnt as described because it was Region 2. I called eBay to escalate the case and they read the description I had and sided in my favor.

A few weeks later, he files a Paypal dispute with the same claim. I email Paypal all the messages I had from him including the claims he made in the ebay dispute. After less than two weeks Paypal sides with me.

Now almost two weeks later he calls his credit card to file a chargeback saying the item wasnt as described. So now I have to fight this again through Paypal with his credit card company. There's no telling how his credit card company will handle it but I have the feeling they will side with their customer regardless of the information forwarded to them.

Has anyone had to deal with a credit card chargeback from Paypal before?
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Old 08-19-17, 11:41 AM   #2
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

PP can just refund the guy without taking the money from you. I've had them do that to me before.
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Old 08-19-17, 11:56 AM   #3
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

Ebay will do this sometimes and said they would have in this case but the buyer f i les the paypal dispute right after doing the ebay one. Now paypal is saying they will take the money out of my account if the cc company decides in his favor even though I won both other cases.
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Old 08-19-17, 12:27 PM   #4
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

PayPal will sometimes just eat the loss to make you (the seller) happy. If you call and talk to them, they'll usually give you a one-time freebie if your claim is reasonable.

Or if you want to fight with the guy, followup to the chargeback claim. PayPal will auto-forward your info to the credit card company. And then they will decide. It's a total crapshoot who's favor they'll decide in. Often times, they'll just decide in their customer's favor, and wait for the merchant to re-dispute the decision. You can go back and forth 3 times before it's final.

You can also track them down on Facebook and go into psycho mode. Send friend requests to their ex's and kids.

I can't tell people enough ... just stay away from doing transactions like this. Donate to your local thrift (or drop off bins they have everywhere now), pawn shops, etc. The shipping, the possible complaints, all that stuff ... not worth it. At this point, the whole consumer-to-consumer model is so flawed, that I see a big disruption coming.
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Old 08-19-17, 12:53 PM   #5
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

Whenever I think about selling something on ebay, I just give it and $10 to someone I dislike. It's cheaper and less time consuming.
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Old 08-19-17, 02:01 PM   #6
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

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Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
PayPal will sometimes just eat the loss to make you (the seller) happy. If you call and talk to them, they'll usually give you a one-time freebie if your claim is reasonable.

Or if you want to fight with the guy, followup to the chargeback claim. PayPal will auto-forward your info to the credit card company. And then they will decide. It's a total crapshoot who's favor they'll decide in. Often times, they'll just decide in their customer's favor, and wait for the merchant to re-dispute the decision. You can go back and forth 3 times before it's final.

You can also track them down on Facebook and go into psycho mode. Send friend requests to their ex's and kids.

I can't tell people enough ... just stay away from doing transactions like this. Donate to your local thrift (or drop off bins they have everywhere now), pawn shops, etc. The shipping, the possible complaints, all that stuff ... not worth it. At this point, the whole consumer-to-consumer model is so flawed, that I see a big disruption coming.
I've already reforwarded the info inclucing his message asking me to send hima Regin 1 instead of 2 because his player can't play them. The descriprion states they are region 2 so basically the buyer is asking for something else in place of what he purchased.

It was an $80 item that I bought from the UK. The window had passed on returning the item and the shipping would have been costly as it was a heavy set. Since I discoverd I could stream it through Amazon's addon service with Prime I did that instead and just decided to sell it on Ebay since they were going for about what I paid for it and my price was much cheaper than what a Region 1 would cost to buy.
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Old 08-19-17, 05:51 PM   #7
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

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Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Whenever I think about selling something on ebay, I just give it and $10 to someone I dislike. It's cheaper and less time consuming.
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Old 08-29-17, 03:14 PM   #8
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

At least he didn't "Neg" you right?
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Old 08-30-17, 01:18 PM   #9
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

Any update on this? I have a big stack of DVD's and boxed sets that I want to sell, but have yet to expend the effort, and have thought about how I'd deal with region coding or PAL issues. Perhaps it would help to send the buyer an email confirmation that they must respond to before shipping? I don't blame you for sticking to your guns. You stated the specs and the buyer either didn't read them or didn't understand them. We all make mistakes, like the DVD set I recently ordered by mistake when I wanted the Blu-Ray. But the adult thing to do is to take your licks and not destroy everybody else's world as a result.
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Old 08-30-17, 06:47 PM   #10
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

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Originally Posted by davidlynchfan View Post
At least he didn't "Neg" you right?
He couldn't since he lost the Ebay case. Even if he neg'd me before filing the case, Ebay would remove it after he lost the case.
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Old 08-30-17, 06:59 PM   #11
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

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Originally Posted by thetao View Post
Any update on this? I have a big stack of DVD's and boxed sets that I want to sell, but have yet to expend the effort, and have thought about how I'd deal with region coding or PAL issues. Perhaps it would help to send the buyer an email confirmation that they must respond to before shipping? I don't blame you for sticking to your guns. You stated the specs and the buyer either didn't read them or didn't understand them. We all make mistakes, like the DVD set I recently ordered by mistake when I wanted the Blu-Ray. But the adult thing to do is to take your licks and not destroy everybody else's world as a result.
It's still pending. I've faxed and emailed them all teh correspondence I've had with the guy including the comment he made in the Ebay case that he wanted a Region 1 and the item was a Region 2.

Selling a Region 2 is a real pain on here. I've gone through my colection and sold many new and unopened Region 2's and about 20-25% of the buyer do not read the fine print that it is Region 2. And when I say "fine print" I mean that a statement about it being Regiolosn2 is put in very larger lettering. Much larger than the title or other information about the DVD itself. A very low percentage of the people bother to read it and then act surprised after they purchase it and open it up to play it.

I had one woman message me months later that it did not work because she didn't know it was a Region 2 or what a Regin 2 was even though it is explained in the large font writing in the description. I wouldn't mind taking returns minus shipping if they make a mistake and return it unopened. But if it's new and unopened, I don't want to eat the loss for their mistake.

I've had a few people file cases right away without even contacting me first when the realize what they bougt and it won't play in their machines. It's usually easy to get Ebay to cancel their cases because their statement will usually say it is a UK or foreign DVD and it won't work. So I simply just message or call ebay and ask then to read the customer comments and my listing description and it's resolved in my favor very quickly.

I find that the worst ones to sell are the detective shows or the ones that old people want to watch because they are usually the ones that don't read the description or have any idea what they are doing before they purchase.
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Old 08-30-17, 07:12 PM   #12
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

Some people are just fucking stupid.

You can put THIS IS A REGION 2 PAL DVD. IT WILL NOT PLAY IN A STANDARD US DVD PLAYER. YOU WILL NEED A SPECIALLY MODIFIED DVD PLAYER IN ORDER TO PLAY IT IN THE USA. IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ANY OF THE PRECEDING STATEMENT, DO NOT BID ON THIS DVD AS YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PLAY IT prominently in your listing and they'll still bid on it.
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Old 08-30-17, 08:07 PM   #13
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

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Some people are just fucking stupid.

You can put THIS IS A REGION 2 PAL DVD. IT WILL NOT PLAY IN A STANDARD US DVD PLAYER. YOU WILL NEED A SPECIALLY MODIFIED DVD PLAYER IN ORDER TO PLAY IT IN THE USA. IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ANY OF THE PRECEDING STATEMENT, DO NOT BID ON THIS DVD AS YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PLAY IT prominently in your listing and they'll still bid on it.
I have something similair to that on mne. I even add "by buying this dvd you state that you know they are region 2 dvd's and what hteat a multi region dvd player is need to play them in the U.S." and they still act like they don't know. They think private Ebay sellers need to have a return policy like Walmart where anything can be returned even after theyve opened or used it.
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Old 09-02-17, 06:27 PM   #14
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

Maybe you can add a stipulation to the listing that requires all bidders to send you a message with the definition of a Region 2 DVD otherwise you will cancel their bid. The definition must be sufficiently detailed to show they know what Region 2 means.

At the very least, that will let you weed out the bidders who don't read the description.

Last edited by GMan2819; 09-02-17 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 09-02-17, 09:17 PM   #15
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

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Originally Posted by GMan2819 View Post
Maybe you can add a stipulation to the listing that requires all bidders to send you a message with the definition of a Region 2 DVD otherwise you will cancel their bid. The definition must be sufficiently detailed to show they know what Region 2 means.

At the very least, that will let you weed out the bidders who don't read the description.
I would have to write the stipulation in the description which they already aren't reading. The credit card company likely wouldn't care about it anyways. I would still win the Ebay nd Paypal dispute and then still have to win the credit car chargeback who'll likely side on the side of their customer.

I already have a stipulation that by bidding they state they know what Region 2 is and how it plays and that they aknowlege the no return policy by purchasing and its still a crapshoot with the credit card company.
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Old 09-02-17, 10:23 PM   #16
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

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I would have to write the stipulation in the description which they already aren't reading. The credit card company likely wouldn't care about it anyways. I would still win the Ebay nd Paypal dispute and then still have to win the credit car chargeback who'll likely side on the side of their customer.

I already have a stipulation that by bidding they state they know what Region 2 is and how it plays and that they aknowlege the no return policy by purchasing and its still a crapshoot with the credit card company.
That's the point. If they don't send you the message, that lets you know they haven't read the description thus giving you a reason to cancel their bid. Canceling bids before the auction is over is allowed.

The downside is that it doesn't stop last minute bidders. For the last minute winning bidder, maybe you can send a message to the winner to 1) verify their address and 2) remind them of your stipulation to send you a definition of Region 2 DVD with the explanation that you have too many people bidding without knowing what they're bidding on. If they don't respond or you're not happy with their response, you have a valid reason to cancel the sale.

Per Ebay's rules:
Quote:
Canceling bids

You generally shouldn't cancel bids on your listings. However, there are a few reasons you may need to cancel a bid:
A bidder contacts you to back out of the bid.
You cannot verify the identity of the bidder after trying all reasonable means of contact.
You end your listing early.
Important: Bids cannot be reinstated after they've been canceled.

To cancel a bid:
Go to Canceling bids placed on your listing.
Enter the item number, the username of the member whose bid you're canceling, and the reason you're canceling the bid.
Click cancel bid.
It's a pain in the butt but it might help to reduce the aggravation of someone stupid winning your auction.
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Old 09-02-17, 10:44 PM   #17
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

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Originally Posted by GMan2819 View Post
That's the point. If they don't send you the message, that lets you know they haven't read the description thus giving you a reason to cancel their bid. Canceling bids before the auction is over is allowed.

The downside is that it doesn't stop last minute bidders. For the last minute winning bidder, maybe you can send a message to the winner to 1) verify their address and 2) remind them of your stipulation to send you a definition of Region 2 DVD with the explanation that you have too many people bidding without knowing what they're bidding on. If they don't respond or you're not happy with their response, you have a valid reason to cancel the sale.

Per Ebay's rules:


It's a pain in the butt but it might help to reduce the aggravation of someone stupid winning your auction.
I rarely use auction listings. I have n Ebay store so mostly everything is "buy it now". Dvd's don't sell that quick so it would be costly to have them in auction format and relisting every week. They would likely get only one bid. DVD's in gereral are a dead market but the British ones seem to retain some value, so if I have some in my collection that can now be streamed Ill just list them to get rid of them.
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Old 09-03-17, 11:19 AM   #18
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

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Originally Posted by movieguru View Post
I rarely use auction listings. I have n Ebay store so mostly everything is "buy it now". Dvd's don't sell that quick so it would be costly to have them in auction format and relisting every week. They would likely get only one bid. DVD's in gereral are a dead market but the British ones seem to retain some value, so if I have some in my collection that can now be streamed Ill just list them to get rid of them.
Even with Buy It Now, what's stopping you from exchanging a few emails to ascertain that the buyer is not some dumb ass before you ship the item out? It's certainly less painful than having to deal with returns, no?

Also, have you also considered the possibility that some of the "ignorant" buyers are not really innocent but are buying/returning DVDs from ebay for less than ethical reasons?
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Old 09-03-17, 05:05 PM   #19
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

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Originally Posted by GMan2819 View Post
Even with Buy It Now, what's stopping you from exchanging a few emails to ascertain that the buyer is not some dumb ass before you ship the item out? It's certainly less painful than having to deal with returns, no?

Also, have you also considered the possibility that some of the "ignorant" buyers are not really innocent but are buying/returning DVDs from ebay for less than ethical reasons?
The problem with sending them a message and waiting for them to respond is it takes time for thwem to resond and Ebay wants the items shipped next business day or they count it aginst you.

Yes, I'm sure they are a number of buyers wanting to return DVD's for unethical reasons. I put a blurb in the return policy that there are no cash refunds but only exchange for the same item if defective.
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Old 09-05-17, 10:38 PM   #20
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

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The problem with sending them a message and waiting for them to respond is it takes time for thwem to resond and Ebay wants the items shipped next business day or they count it aginst you.
Put a longer handling time on your Region 2 DVD listings then.
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Old 09-06-17, 03:29 PM   #21
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

Looks like Paypal took the chargeback out of my hands and are now dealing with the credit card company themselves. So I guess if the chargeback is lost, then Paypal has to pay the money and not me.

This is the message I got from Paypal:


"This claim has been decided in your favor. We'll deal directly with the credit card issuer during the investigation of the chargeback, and we'll cover all fees related to the claim.

You don't need to participate in this investigation at this point. We might email you later to request more information about this transaction."
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Old 09-06-17, 06:10 PM   #22
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

Nice! Maybe they took the previous 2 decisions into account.
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Old 09-06-17, 06:16 PM   #23
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

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Nice! Maybe they took the previous 2 decisions into account.
I'm surprised because I expected Paypal to take the decision of the credit card company when they decided on the case. In this instance though they it doesn't appear they have received a response from them yet. Unless they have received a response and are trying to make it look like their are just backing me up when the cc company already made a decision in my favor.
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Old 09-06-17, 06:21 PM   #24
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

That's your free one. They just ate the cost. Remember that if you do business with Ebay/PayPal again.
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Old 09-06-17, 07:17 PM   #25
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Re: YAET Buyer keeps filing false claims with eBay, Paypal, & Credit card

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Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
That's your free one. They just ate the cost. Remember that if you do business with Ebay/PayPal again.
What do you mean "free one"? Does Paypal just do that one time and then not fight other chargebacks?
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