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View Poll Results: Who will win Super Bowl LI?
Predicting the Patriots and rooting for the Patriots 13 26.00%
Predicting the Patriots but rooting for the Falcons 19 38.00%
Predicting the Patriots but don't care who wins 3 6.00%
Predicting the Falcons and rooting for the Falcons 13 26.00%
Predicting the Falcons but rooting for the Patriots 1 2.00%
Predicting the Falcons but don't care who wins 1 2.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-23-17, 06:49 PM   #26
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

I don't like the Falcons but I don't want to see Brady get 5 rings and one more than Montana and the Patriots in a tie with the Niners for 5 Super Bowl trophies.

The NFC South the first division to have all 4 teams reach the Super Bowl since realignment in 2002.
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Old 01-23-17, 07:21 PM   #27
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

I'm not saying he doesn't do it or he's not successful with it. I'm saying there's a lot more too it than that or else everyone else would do it consistently as well. If an analyst is going use that talking point then they should explain why he's able to do it without weakening the rest of his defense.
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Old 01-24-17, 10:28 AM   #28
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
As much as a I dislike him and his team, it's pretty hard to deny Belichick isn't one of the best NFL coaches ever.
It's pretty hard to deny that he is THE best ever.
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Old 01-24-17, 11:40 AM   #29
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

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Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
But that said, I'm thinking the Falcons have the offense going enough right now to outscore the Pats. Basically just too much to handle even if they do take away Julio.
But does Atlanta have the defense to keep Brady from scoring at will? It is pretty obvious that, on paper anyway, the Pats have the vastly superior defense.

The Steelers only made Ryan Allen punt twice the entire game. If the Falcons cannot improve upon that, and then some, they will lose.
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Old 01-24-17, 12:07 PM   #30
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

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Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
But does Atlanta have the defense to keep Brady from scoring at will? It is pretty obvious that, on paper anyway, the Pats have the vastly superior defense.

The Steelers only made Ryan Allen punt twice the entire game. If the Falcons cannot improve upon that, and then some, they will lose.
The Falcons looked really good against the Seahawks' terrible offensive line. I didn't see the Green Bay game, though.
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Old 01-24-17, 12:08 PM   #31
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
It's pretty hard to deny that he is THE best ever.
If people are willing to go back in history, there are definitely others in the conversation. Personally I agree with you, just stating what I have seen before when people talk about the best coaches of all time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
But does Atlanta have the defense to keep Brady from scoring at will? It is pretty obvious that, on paper anyway, the Pats have the vastly superior defense.

The Steelers only made Ryan Allen punt twice the entire game. If the Falcons cannot improve upon that, and then some, they will lose.
The game could very well come down to which team has the ball last.
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Old 01-24-17, 12:50 PM   #32
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

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Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
The game could very well come down to which team has the ball last.
Yup. Kind of wish the Pats weren't in it because otherwise I would be very happy to root for the Falcons. I virtually always root for the team that hasn't won it in a long time/ever.
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Old 01-24-17, 04:47 PM   #33
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

I think this will be the first OT Superbowl
I just hope NE loses so their insuffurable fans will shut up
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Old 01-24-17, 04:56 PM   #34
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

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I just hope NE loses so their insuffurable fans will shut up
Not going to happen. Why would this time be any different than the other four?
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Old 01-24-17, 05:15 PM   #35
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

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Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
If people are willing to go back in history, there are definitely others in the conversation. Personally I agree with you, just stating what I have seen before when people talk about the best coaches of all time.
There are certainly many coaches in that conversation, but I'd give it to Belichick for his sustained run in an era of parity. His and Brady's legacies would still survive a four-interception Atlanta blowout, were that to happen.
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Old 01-24-17, 07:59 PM   #36
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

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The game could very well come down to which team has the ball last.
Jimmy Garoppolo takes a knee in the final 30 seconds after the Pats won by 30 points.

Is it safe to say maybe Belicheck and not Parcells is the true genius?

Parcells won 2 of those Super Bowls with Belicheck as the D coordinator.
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Old 01-24-17, 08:10 PM   #37
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

Predicting and rooting for the Falcons
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Old 01-25-17, 06:36 AM   #38
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

I'm no Belichick fan, but it's hard to say he's not the best coach ever in ANY sport, let alone just the NFL.

4 Super Bowl wins as head coach (possibly 5), with 7 appearances, plus two more Super Bowl wins as Defensive Coordinator of the NY Giants. 14 Division titles (in 16 years) as coach of the Pats. In the era of the salary cap. Those are stunning numbers.
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Old 01-25-17, 08:01 AM   #39
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

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Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
It's pretty hard to deny that he is THE best ever.
Bill Walsh's Niners teams had to play against real defenses.
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Old 01-25-17, 08:02 AM   #40
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017



Quote:
Falcons' owner Arthur Blank is going to send every team employee to Houston for Super Bowl LI.
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Old 01-25-17, 08:29 AM   #41
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

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Originally Posted by B.A. View Post
Bill Walsh's Niners teams had to play against real defenses.
They certainly had to play against defenses that were not having to guess if they could hit, or even touch the players on offense. I can remember a time when QB hit and pass interference calls were pretty rare.
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Old 01-25-17, 08:53 AM   #42
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

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Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
They certainly had to play against defenses that were not having to guess if they could hit, or even touch the players on offense. I can remember a time when QB hit and pass interference calls were pretty rare.
Quarterbacks weren't untouchable and they weren't wearing flak jackets either.
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Old 01-25-17, 02:32 PM   #43
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

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Originally Posted by B.A. View Post
Bill Walsh's Niners teams had to play against real defenses.
Walsh was more of an innovator in football. Walsh gets most of the credit for the West Coast offense, which fundamentally changed the NFL. He was ten years ahead of everyone else with it.

The thing about Belichick is that he's constantly evolved and won with changing personnel, which is incredibly rare at this level of success.
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Old 01-25-17, 02:55 PM   #44
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

If you plan to leave your TV on FOX all day on Super Bowl Sunday, here's the schedule:


Quote:
The schedule on Super Bowl Sunday, February 5 on Fox looks like this (all times Eastern):

11 a.m. — Road to the Super Bowl: The annual NFL Films-produced special
12 p.m. — Undisputed with Skip and Shannon
1 p.m. — Fox Super Bowl Kickoff: Charissa Thompson hosts
2 p.m. — Fox Super Bowl Pregame: The Fox NFL Sunday crew will be live from Houston
6:30 p.m. — Super Bowl LI (Live)
10 p.m. (approximate) — Super Bowl Post Game
10:30 p.m. (approximate) — 24: Legacy
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Old 01-25-17, 03:32 PM   #45
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt View Post
I'm no Belichick fan, but it's hard to say he's not the best coach ever in ANY sport, let alone just the NFL.

4 Super Bowl wins as head coach (possibly 5), with 7 appearances, plus two more Super Bowl wins as Defensive Coordinator of the NY Giants. 14 Division titles (in 16 years) as coach of the Pats. In the era of the salary cap. Those are stunning numbers.
Yep. And I'm no fan either, but I know greatness when I see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B.A. View Post
Bill Walsh's Niners teams had to play against real defenses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
They certainly had to play against defenses that were not having to guess if they could hit, or even touch the players on offense. I can remember a time when QB hit and pass interference calls were pretty rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
Walsh was more of an innovator in football. Walsh gets most of the credit for the West Coast offense, which fundamentally changed the NFL. He was ten years ahead of everyone else with it.

The thing about Belichick is that he's constantly evolved and won with changing personnel, which is incredibly rare at this level of success.
Yep.

Sure, the defenses in Walsh's era didn't have to worry about many penalties, but the notion that they were better is ludicrous. Today's athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger, and the schemes on offense and defense are way more complex. Walsh was a fantastic coach and innovator, but to say he's better because his teams played against better defenses is downright silly.

The fact that BB has been able to sustain success over such a long period in the salary cap era, while routinely dumping stars and turning scrap heap players into pro bowlers, is remarkable. And while Brady deserves a lot of credit, let's not forget that they went 11-5 with Matt Cassell and 3-1 with Jimmy Garropolo.

I feel dirty having to defend him, as I can't stand him and think he will do whatever it takes and he can get away with, including cheating, to win. But I also think it's pretty obvious that he's simply better at this football stuff than anyone before him.
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Old 01-26-17, 09:18 AM   #46
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

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Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
Today's athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger, and the schemes on offense and defense are way more complex.
But there is more to being great in the NFL than those attributes. Awareness is big key to player not only being fast enough, but also doing the right things. Getting to the wrong spot faster than everybody else helps nobody, and can actually work against a team. Just ask all the folks that drafted speed burner WR's and CB's that didn't work out because they couldn't remember where they were supposed to be after they broke the huddle. I also tend to think that players in the past were also physically stronger in ways that translated better to playing in the NFL. Similar to speed, it doesn't do any good to exert all our force in the wrong direction, or be off balance.

I would put the best players from the 70's-90's against the crop of current players any day. The average current player is bigger, faster, and stronger... yes. But the teams that routinely made the playoffs and SB's in the 70's-90's could match up with those playing today.

Last edited by hdnmickey; 01-26-17 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 01-26-17, 10:45 AM   #47
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

New England 31 Atlanta 16

Brady gets one for the Thumb.
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Old 01-26-17, 01:10 PM   #48
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

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But there is more to being great in the NFL than those attributes. Awareness is big key to player not only being fast enough, but also doing the right things. Getting to the wrong spot faster than everybody else helps nobody, and can actually work against a team. Just ask all the folks that drafted speed burner WR's and CB's that didn't work out because they couldn't remember where they were supposed to be after they broke the huddle. I also tend to think that players in the past were also physically stronger in ways that translated better to playing in the NFL. Similar to speed, it doesn't do any good to exert all our force in the wrong direction, or be off balance.

I would put the best players from the 70's-90's against the crop of current players any day. The average current player is bigger, faster, and stronger... yes. But the teams that routinely made the playoffs and SB's in the 70's-90's could match up with those playing today.
Obviously, we'll never know. But I completely disagree. I think the Patriots or Falcons would completely manhandle the Steelers of the 70s or the Niners of the 80s. That's not to say that there aren't players of those eras that would be successful today, but just looking at the size of linemen tells me what I need to know. In the 70s, the average OL was 6-foot-3, 255 pounds. Cam Newton is as big as that. 80s, 6-foot-4, 272 pounds. Now, it's something like 6-foot-5, 310 pounds. And they haven't gotten slower.
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Old 01-26-17, 01:52 PM   #49
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

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Obviously, we'll never know. But I completely disagree. I think the Patriots or Falcons would completely manhandle the Steelers of the 70s or the Niners of the 80s. That's not to say that there aren't players of those eras that would be successful today, but just looking at the size of linemen tells me what I need to know. In the 70s, the average OL was 6-foot-3, 255 pounds. Cam Newton is as big as that. 80s, 6-foot-4, 272 pounds. Now, it's something like 6-foot-5, 310 pounds. And they haven't gotten slower.
The Seahawks this past season had great examples of some really big, strong, fast O-Lineman that were watching much smaller guys go by them like turnstiles. As did a lot of other teams. There is far more to NFL football than just physical attributes.
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Old 01-26-17, 02:01 PM   #50
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Re: 2016 NFL Playoffs Thread - Super Bowl LI, February 5, 2017

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The Seahawks this past season had great examples of some really big, strong, fast O-Lineman that were watching much smaller guys go by them like turnstiles. As did a lot of other teams. There is far more to NFL football than just physical attributes.
Sure, physical skills alone can't make you a successful athlete, but I don't think all modern athletes are physical specimens with no sense for the game. I think across eras, you have both kinds (like when the 49ers tried to use Olympic star Renaldo Nehemiah), and I agree with LurkerDan that the physical bar is so much higher these days.
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