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Old 02-27-17, 02:52 PM   #101
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

I don't know, four of the top six on the ATP are all-time greats on some level and five of the top ten with Federer at #10. The men's game is down just a tad at the moment because Djokovic's level has declined from his peak, while Federer and Nadal are getting up there in age. It's still at a high level compared to some prior eras.

The rankings have always been able to be gamed somewhat if you play all year and regularly make the quarterfinals of most tournaments. Nishikori looks to be following Michael Chang's career without the Slam on his record, as a consistent top-five player that needs a major break to win a Slam.
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Old 02-27-17, 03:01 PM   #102
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

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I don't know, four of the top six on the ATP are all-time greats on some level
Murray, Djokovic, Nadal, and ??? Wawrinka I guess, because he has three GS titles, but it feels like a huge stretch to call him an all-time great.
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Old 02-28-17, 12:45 AM   #103
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

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Murray, Djokovic, Nadal, and ??? Wawrinka I guess, because he has three GS titles, but it feels like a huge stretch to call him an all-time great.
He's tied with Murray, and 3 out of the 4. And he's 3-0 in GS finals. He's not a pretender anymore like a lot of the guys ranked in the top twenty.
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Old 02-28-17, 09:35 AM   #104
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

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He's tied with Murray, and 3 out of the 4. And he's 3-0 in GS finals. He's not a pretender anymore like a lot of the guys ranked in the top twenty.
Not sure what you mean by "and 3 out of the 4". In any case, I would certainly not say he's a pretender, he's an excellent player and a threat, but all-time great? Murray is one, arguably, but the thing that holds Murray back from that designation is the lack of GS titles. Overall, his number of titles, GS finals, #1 ranking, are what push him into "all-time great".
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Old 02-28-17, 11:41 AM   #105
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

I meant to write 3 out of the 4 GS. Murray is more accomplished, but it seems pretty strange to exclude someone with almost a career GS.
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Old 02-28-17, 04:16 PM   #106
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

Exclude him from what? He's a great player. Admittedly I am not as big of a tennis fan as some of you, but I'm a big sports fan in general and certainly follow the Slams closely. And I have never heard him referred to as an "all-time great". In looking for lists of GS titles, I can't find a list that goes lower than 5.

I'd sooner say Murray is not an all-time great than Wawrinka is.
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Old 02-28-17, 04:51 PM   #107
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

3 Slams guarantees Wawrinka is a first-ballot Hall of Famer in tennis. 3 Slams on different surfaces, particularly in an era against peak Djokovic and Nadal, is enough to list Stan as a great tennis player. No one is saying he's one of the ten-best players of all time or anything.

The number of people that have won more than 2 Slams is fairly short.
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Old 03-03-17, 07:49 PM   #108
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

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3 Slams guarantees Wawrinka is a first-ballot Hall of Famer in tennis. 3 Slams on different surfaces, particularly in an era against peak Djokovic and Nadal, is enough to list Stan as a great tennis player.
Oddly enough, had he won all three on the same surface (especially grass or clay), he would probably be considered greater (a la Gustavo Kuerten). The inconsistency of his brilliance also hurts him. He is kind of a male Petra Kvitova. Almost untouchable when playing his best, but all to infrequently doing so. OTOH, Petra would never be able to win in Paris like Stan did.

He is already tied with Arthur Ashe and Kuerten and one win away from being tied with Courier, Rosewall and Vilas. He has more than some pretty big names as well; Stan Smith, Hewitt, Rafter, Chang, Roddick, etc.

I agree though, definitely a hall of famer if his career ended today, but never regarded as an "all time great".
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Old 03-03-17, 10:02 PM   #109
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

There are far less accomplished players than Stan in the tennis HoF, he'll make it for sure.
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Old 03-06-17, 02:17 PM   #110
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

The ATP tournament down in Mexico was interesting for only a 500 level event. Lots of good hardcourt tennis, including Kyrgios playing out of his mind at times until it looked like he blew out his elbow serving.

Djokovic ended up losing to Kyrgios in the quarters, mostly because Kyrgios was throwing up Isner-level service games. It's amazing to consider that Djokovic was at the top of his game less than a year ago and now looks very beatable by other top-ten players. His consistency has dropped a great deal in a very short amount of time.
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Old 03-09-17, 04:59 PM   #111
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

Indian Wells bottom quarter of the draw:




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Old 03-12-17, 01:34 PM   #112
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

What is going on with Andy Murray? He lost early once again to a low-ranked player basically playing serve-and-volley tennis.

Most people thought he had an easy path to the finals with such an easy draw.
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Old 03-12-17, 02:00 PM   #113
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

Still tired after Dubai?

Don't know, maybe he's just starting to hit a wall (he'll be 30 in May) and his run of consistency at the tail end of last year looks to have ended. And to be fair, Pospisil, while outside of the top 100 now, could be on the upswing. He has a new coach, and beat two top 50 guys in Davis Cup just last month. He's also a damn good doubles player, and while it's been a couple of years, he's made it as far as quarters at Wimbledon in singles.

If the Big Four era wasn't already over last year (kind of been over the last couple of years really, despite this year's AO final), it seems almost certain it will end this year. We still have three more GS, but still.

Certainly some wonky draws for Indian Wells, but the rankings/injuries are to play mostly. Wouldn't be surprised to see Djokovic knocked out by Del Potro (if not sooner).
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Old 03-12-17, 02:21 PM   #114
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

From watching the losses, Murray seems befuddled from constant serve-and-volley tactics. The match with Pospisil was weird because there were five breaks of serve in the first set.

It does appear we are nearing the end of the Big Four with more random results returning to men's tennis.
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Old 03-12-17, 02:35 PM   #115
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

I think the Dubai final had that many (or close to it) breaks in the first set as well, with no one being able to hold serve until Murray finally could. Even though he won the final, it seems clear that something is off for Murray, who I was kind of hoping would be the player of consistency.

This year no one has been consistent, save for Federer's dream run at Australia. As much as I love him as a player, there's no way he's ever going back to #1 (not that he ever needs to). Well, never say never with that guy, who seems to keep defying the impossible (still not holding my breath).
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Old 03-12-17, 07:20 PM   #116
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

I didn't even know it was Vasek who beat Murray. Good job dude!

This should be an interesting season. I expect more surprises which is a good thing.

Oh, and we finally know how long Fed intends to play.

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Old 03-16-17, 12:38 AM   #117
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

Kyrgios beats Djokovic again. He was basically unbreakable, Djokovic didn't even sniff a break point.

Fed beats Nadal again. More like destroys him in 68 min.
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Old 03-16-17, 10:14 AM   #118
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

Kyrgios definitely is good enough right now to win some Masters don't think he can mentally keep it in check at Slams though. However he is the dominant heel the sport needs right now with the big 4 on the decline.
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Old 03-16-17, 03:12 PM   #119
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

Kyrgios is one of the most talented tennis players I've ever seen going back to the 1980s. I'm fairly sure Kyrgios could also win on tour playing serve-and-volley if he wanted. He shows a keen sense of rally management and how to tailor his game for specific opponents. I'd be stunned if he doesn't end up in the top eight by the end of 2017. He's going to win majors down the road.

Djokovic had little chance in that match. It's becoming more and more apparent that Djokovic has hit the same sort of physical wall Nadal hit a couple of years ago. He's a shell of the player that won four straight majors culminating in the French Open.

It looks like Djokovic has lost a step on defense, has a much tougher time generating his own pace, and his serve has stopped being a weapon. This is my impression from watching his matches over the past six months.

It's beyond mental considerations. Something physically has changed. He's either hiding a back/wrist injury or something...else.
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Old 03-17-17, 08:58 AM   #120
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

Djokovic has lost what I'd call his slugfestiveness. He's not wearing down his opponents like he used to, which was similar of Nadal's play. He's sort of playing like he did before he started winning majors when he'd be ranked 3rd or 4th. I dunno, but you're right, he's lost a step or two, and his style of play really can't afford that. Really curious how Roger handles Kyrgios. Fed is playing with a lot more confidence and doesn't seem to panic as much when he's in a difficult spot like he has for the last three to four years. Just interesting he's the last of the "Big Four" left, and fairly early at Indian Wells. It's going to be an interesting year for tennis on the men's side. I'm okay with that. Kyrgios sounded pretty calm and collected during his post match interviews, so maybe he really is maturing.
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Old 03-17-17, 01:41 PM   #121
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

Well never mind that, Krygios withdraws due to illness:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.latim...story,amp.html
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Old 03-20-17, 11:55 AM   #122
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

Pretty good for an old man.
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Old 03-20-17, 01:36 PM   #123
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

It took him a couple of years but Federer now has much better command of his new, bigger racquet. He's looked like a different player with it since the injury lay-off.

Despite the bad loss to Fed, Sock is playing better than ever. I think he ran out of gas after playing four straight three-setters. He's a legitimate top-ten player these days on hardcourts. I don't think he's a serious threat yet at the majors but there is now a glimmer of hope.

Murray has pulled out of Miami with elbow issues.
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Old 03-20-17, 01:47 PM   #124
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

If you would have told me Fed would be the best player on tour this year (at this point anyway), I wouldn't have believed you. Yes, he got some luck with Nick Kyrgios getting food poisoning (maybe) but he was part of that bottom half with some of the most difficult draw and prevailed. He won Indian Wells very convincingly, and Stan didn't really play badly, but just faultered at the worst times. Pretty good quality tennis overall. And that court was not AO fast. Roger seems to be adjusting well to other surfaces for his attacking style.

Murray and Djokovic are both out with elbow injuries and won't be in Miami, which I always thought shouldn't be right after a long Masters like Indian Wells. I bet they will wait until the clay season to return (depending how serious). These tournaments need to be spread out a bit more. Same for the Canda and Cincinnati Masters. There are always players that seem to pull out from one or the other I think partly because of the stupid tournament scheduling.
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Old 03-20-17, 04:55 PM   #125
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Re: 2017 Tennis Thread

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Pretty good for an old man.
Pretty good showing for a couple of old women in the women's final as well. Biggest singles win of Vesnina's career.
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