2012 NHL Stanley Cup Playoffs

[aktick]

Originally Posted by CRM114

However, fair-weather <> bandwagon.

That I can definitely agree with...I've been a Blackhawks fan my entire life, but really didn't follow them a ton during the late 90s/early 2000s because A) they sucked and B) Wirtz was a jackass.

I always get accused of jumping on the Brewers bandwagon too, when they do good. I'm not a big baseball fan, but like my home-state teams, so when they do good I'm going to follow them more closely. I don't stop being a fan when they stink, I just care less.

Now, when I was 10 years old and the Rangers were making their Cup run, THAT was being a bandwagon fan.

[aktick]

Brodeur has the highest GAA of any goalie left - 2.05. Lots of people always complain about how they hate the low scoring aspect of hockey, but is anybody really complaining about these playoffs being boring?

Though the GAA of all the other goalies makes it very apparent how terrible Philly and Pittsburgh were defensively...and how terrible Luongo is (his GAA was worse than Bryz's).

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by aktick

That I can definitely agree with...I've been a Blackhawks fan my entire life, but really didn't follow them a ton during the late 90s/early 2000s because A) they sucked and B) Wirtz was a jackass.

I always get accused of jumping on the Brewers bandwagon too, when they do good. I'm not a big baseball fan, but like my home-state teams, so when they do good I'm going to follow them more closely. I don't stop being a fan when they stink, I just care less.

Now, when I was 10 years old and the Rangers were making their Cup run, THAT was being a bandwagon fan.

Regular season hockey is take it or leave it for me. Wake me up when the playoffs start. I will take an interest in the Flyers AHL affiliate (the Phantoms) which is moving to my area next season though.

If I'm fair-weather, so be it. The weather always seems to be "fair" in the Spring for Flyers fans.

[bunkaroo]

Well, early Spring anyway.

[Red Dog]

Originally Posted by aktick

Brodeur has the highest GAA of any goalie left - 2.05. Lots of people always complain about how they hate the low scoring aspect of hockey, but is anybody really complaining about these playoffs being boring?

Though the GAA of all the other goalies makes it very apparent how terrible Philly and Pittsburgh were defensively...and how terrible Luongo is (his GAA was worse than Bryz's).

I haven't watched as much of the West as the East, but it seems that's where the best goaltending that's left resides. Will be an interesting series -- we'll see if the books open the G1 total at 4 1/2 or 5.

[Deftones]

Originally Posted by brizz

and fuck Phoenix. they don't deserve a franchise, haven't supported it for a single day since it arrived, and it only remains because of Bettman's misguided stubbornness to make southern teams viable even if it means the league shoveling money at them for years on end. They can go fuck themselves.

hockey was supported when it first came to town because it was located in downtown Phoenix and and an easy commute for people who live in the east valley. nearly 80% of season ticket holders live in the east valley (Mesa/Tempe/Chandler/Gilbert). so, when the Coyotes ownership at the time decided to move to Glendale because they could so easily get a stadium built, they did it. and all the people who were season ticket holders dropped their tickets because nobody wants to drive an hour to watch a hockey game, let alone most sporting events.

[dolphinboy]

Originally Posted by Deftones

hockey was supported when it first came to town because it was located in downtown Phoenix and and an easy commute for people who live in the east valley. nearly 80% of season ticket holders live in the east valley (Mesa/Tempe/Chandler/Gilbert). so, when the Coyotes ownership at the time decided to move to Glendale because they could so easily get a stadium built, they did it. and all the people who were season ticket holders dropped their tickets because nobody wants to drive an hour to watch a hockey game, let alone most sporting events.

Exactly. What a terrible decision it was to move the hockey franchise so far away from where most of the fans live.

Football is such a bigger sport and it's usually on Sundays at 1pm. And you only need to get fans to show up 8 times. I'll get my buddies ticket to see the Lions this season. No way I'd not drive from Scottsdale for that game.

But I routinely pass on offers to see hockey and I'm a bigger NHL fan than an NFL fan. It's a real pain to have to get over to Glendale and back. If the games were closer, I'd consider getting season tickets. Despite all the problems this franchise has had, it would be in a LOT better shape if they hadn't built the stadium in Glendale.

I hate bashing other people's teams, but Phoenix makes more sense for hockey than either franchise in Florida. More people relocate to AZ from hockey cities than maybe anywhere else in the country. Blaming the people of the Phoenix area for not supporting the team is pretty lame.

And the players from other franchise like playing here. Especially if they have an extra day for golf or to spend some time in the sun when they just left behind a big pile of snow. It's a great building, just located in a terrible spot for the fans.

Go Caps!

[Quack]

No life from the Rangers tonight....just don't got it. :-\ Hope they find it for a Game 7 Saturday!

[astrochimp]

Some life for the Rangers.

Can't really fault Holtby on that one.

[Red Dog]

Good lord. Don't do this to us.

[astrochimp]

Nice win Caps.

[Red Dog]

I don't think so, NY. Phew.

It's a tease though.

[Deftones]

Originally Posted by dolphinboy

Exactly. What a terrible decision it was to move the hockey franchise so far away from where most of the fans live.

Football is such a bigger sport and it's usually on Sundays at 1pm. And you only need to get fans to show up 8 times. I'll get my buddies ticket to see the Lions this season. No way I'd not drive from Scottsdale for that game.

But I routinely pass on offers to see hockey and I'm a bigger NHL fan than an NFL fan. It's a real pain to have to get over to Glendale and back. If the games were closer, I'd consider getting season tickets. Despite all the problems this franchise has had, it would be in a LOT better shape if they hadn't built the stadium in Glendale.

I hate bashing other people's teams, but Phoenix makes more sense for hockey than either franchise in Florida. More people relocate to AZ from hockey cities than maybe anywhere else in the country. Blaming the people of the Phoenix area for not supporting the team is pretty lame.

And the players from other franchise like playing here. Especially if they have an extra day for golf or to spend some time in the sun when they just left behind a big pile of snow. It's a great building, just located in a terrible spot for the fans.

Go Caps!

Bingo. I love people that don't live here commenting on things they know nothing about.

[Shamus McAnally]

I'll always hate the Caps, but this Holtby kid is a pretty good story. I wish him well... well, at least as well as I can wish a Caps player. haha

[Dr_Evil]

Originally Posted by Deftones

Bingo. I love people that don't live here commenting on things they know nothing about.

I guess the local TV ratings are pretty big then for all of these hockey loving people that can't make it out to the arena because it's so far away?

"Phoenix Coyotes games on FS Arizona drew an average of 7,000 homes for each game."

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/J...N-ratings.aspx

At least they're not in the bottom 5 as far as ratings go, but it sure doesn't seem like there is much demand for a team that had made the playoffs for two straight years (three now) with a solid young team.

[Deftones]

Originally Posted by Dr_Evil

I guess the local TV ratings are pretty big then for all of these hockey loving people that can't make it out to the arena because it's so far away?

"Phoenix Coyotes games on FS Arizona drew an average of 7,000 homes for each game."

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/J...N-ratings.aspx

At least they're not in the bottom 5 as far as ratings go, but it sure doesn't seem like there is much demand for a team that had made the playoffs for two straight years (three now) with a solid young team.

Not all games are aired here and when there are conflicts with other sports, usually the Suns or Dbacks get priority. On the occasion that it does air on Fox Sports Arizona+, it's difficult to find. I know, because I have trouble finding the fucking Dbacks games when they get relegated there due to Suns games. And honestly, most of the people that I know that are fans stopped supporting the team when the owners at the time thumbed their noses and uprooted the team more than 20 miles further away from the greatest majority of the fanbase.

[bunkaroo]

I don't understand why there aren't enough channels to show all of these teams in PHX at the same time. There are times here when the Cubs, Sox, Bulls and Hawks have all been playing, and you can see them all on either Comcast Sportsnet, WGN or another local (WCIU). Is it Fox Sports that's the problem?

[Red Dog]

Whether or not the Coyotes should be Phoenix (I personally think it would be best if they moved to Quebec, which I believe is building a new arena, and obviously has the fan support), this story about the financial obligations of Glendale toward the Coyotes and arena is pretty damn sad.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...708180314.html

Glendale's Public Hockey Project
The Cash-Strapped Arizona City Loses $12.9 Million a Year Supporting the NHL's Coyotes

By BRAD PARKS

On Monday, the Phoenix Coyotes advanced to the NHL's Western Conference finals for the first time since moving to the desert in 1996.

But here in Glendale, the Phoenix suburb where the Coyotes play, not everyone is cheering. "If you need a poster boy for how to pour your whole budget down the drain of professional sports, Glendale is the place," says Glendale resident Ken Jones, a retired construction superintendent, who calls the team a financial albatross.

By any measure, professional hockey in the valley of the sun has been an expensive proposition and the cost is falling heavily upon Glendale. The Coyotes play at Jobing.com Arena, a monument to the NHL's expansion to cities in the Southern and Western U.S. As in Atlanta and South Florida, hockey has failed to captivate Arizonans, a problem that culminated three years ago in the franchise filing for bankruptcy. Among NHL clubs this season, the Coyotes ranked last in attendance.

The city built Jobing.com Arena in 2003 as part of a package that included an upscale mall, and that in turn helped attract an enormous coup for Glendale: University of Phoenix Stadium, home to the NFL's Cardinals, the 2008 and 2015 Super Bowls and the Fiesta Bowl. Currently, an outlet mall is under construction nearby.

Yet unlike other Arizonans, Glendale taxpayers can't ignore the Coyotes. The city is obligated to make debt payments on the arena that average $12.6 million a year. To keep the team afloat, moreover, the city has been paying a so-called "arena management fee" of nearly $25 million a year to the NHL, which three years ago bought the Coyotes out of bankruptcy.

The NHL has announced a tentative sale to a group headed by former San Jose Sharks executive Greg Jamison, under terms that would essentially institutionalize Glendale's commitments. Under the proposal that the NHL has laid out for city council members, the city would continue paying an arena-management fee that would average about $14.5 million a year.

On top of the city's average $12.6 million in debt service, that amounts to annual expenses of about $27.1 million—to be offset by anticipated Coyotes-related revenue of $14.2 million, according to projections by Glendale's city management department. That adds up to a projected annual loss for Glendale of $12.9 million.

By the time the new ownership deal ran its course in 2033, Glendale would have paid $271 million—nearly $1,200 for each of its 226,721 citizens—to keep the team.

These expenses outweigh Glendale's Coyotes-related revenue by such a degree that Moody's has downgraded the city's bond rating twice in the last 18 months, citing the city's ongoing hockey payments. In part due to the Coyotes, the city's reserve fund has fallen to $11.7 million from $72.5 million six years ago. Facing a projected $35 million budget gap—in a city whose general revenue funds in the most recent fiscal year amounted to $142.6 million—Glendale is proposing to raise its property and sales tax rates, while slashing library hours and hiking fees for city services.

The recession hasn't helped Glendale, a fact the NHL noted in a statement. "The Coyotes have outstanding management, an outstanding coaching staff, a passionate fan-base and they have reached the Western Conference Final. They have found a way to create their own internal stability, which has carried the day against external forces they cannot control. The foundation is strong and ownership would only make it stronger for the long term."

The proposed sale requires approval of the Glendale City Council and a final vote isn't expected for several weeks. One possible opponent is the Goldwater Institute, a libertarian group that has previously argued that the arena-management fee violates Arizona laws prohibiting public subsidies to private businesses.

Some Glendale business owners may also oppose the deal, including David Kimmerle, owner of Sanderson Ford car dealership in Glendale. A longtime sponsor and fan of the Coyotes, Kimmerle felt betrayed when Glendale officials recently proposed raising the city's sale tax, in large part to support the cost of the team. The proposed increase would make a $30,000 car on Kimmerle's lot $330 more expensive than in the neighboring suburb of Peoria. "No one is going to pay a premium to shop in Glendale," Kimmerle said. "If it is choosing between the Coyotes or a business that is been in my family since 1955 and employs 500 people, I have to choose my business."

Yet critics like Kimmerle are hardly legion in Glendale, concedes city councilman Phil Lieberman, who vehemently opposes prolonged taxpayer support for the Coyotes. "I'm really mystified by why the taxpayers in Glendale won't come to meetings and speak up," Lieberman said. "I'm outspoken about this, but I need 20 other people who are outspoken, too."

Four members of Glendale's six-person City Council have previously indicated their support for a sale such as the one the NHL proposed on Monday.

Some city officials call the proposed sale Glendale's best—in fact only—option.

"We have an obligation to pay for the (arena) debt service and to manage the arena whether the Coyotes are in the arena or not," deputy city manager Jim Colson said. "We believe that financially this (proposed sale) puts us in the best possible situation moving forward."

Support for the team is growing amid its unexpected postseason success. In seven previous playoff appearances in Arizona, the Coyotes made seven first-round exits. But in recent days it won two rounds to earn a spot in the conference finals—and suddenly every seat in Jobing.com Arena is selling.

Those citizens are fucked whether the Coyotes play in Glendale or on the moon.

[coli]

Originally Posted by Deftones

Not all games are aired here and when there are conflicts with other sports, usually the Suns or Dbacks get priority. On the occasion that it does air on Fox Sports Arizona+, it's difficult to find. I know, because I have trouble finding the fucking Dbacks games when they get relegated there due to Suns games. And honestly, most of the people that I know that are fans stopped supporting the team when the owners at the time thumbed their noses and uprooted the team more than 20 miles further away from the greatest majority of the fanbase.

In Philly, we have Comcast which is the main channel for the Flyers, 76ers, and Phillies. The Comcast Network is the secondary channel for any conflicts between Flyers and 76ers during the winter. And if all 3 teams are playing (only happens during the playoffs in April/May), the Phils game are shown on Channel 17 (which is our old local channel that you don't even need a cable box for.)

I couldn't imagine not having a game blacked out for my local teams, as that hasn't happened here in Philly in about 25 years. In this day and age of Cable TV and so much competition, you think teams would do everything in their power to make it easier to either come to the stadium or watch it on tv for the fan.

[Deftones]

Originally Posted by bunkaroo

I don't understand why there aren't enough channels to show all of these teams in PHX at the same time. There are times here when the Cubs, Sox, Bulls and Hawks have all been playing, and you can see them all on either Comcast Sportsnet, WGN or another local (WCIU). Is it Fox Sports that's the problem?

Yes, because Fox Sports Net bought the rights to air all Coyotes games and Dbacks games and most Suns games. 1 channel for 3 sports that have overlapping seasons. Coyotes and Dbacks used to be on local tv, but that changed when the deals ended. The Suns still play a few games per year on local TV, but those are fewer and fewer each season. So if you don't have cable/sat with that specific sports programming, you don't get to see them.

[Dr_Evil]

They may be better off letting the Coyotes go and trying to maximize the concert and other event revenue they can get. The Sprint Center in Kansas City is able to do something similar without any major tenant. I think they'd be better off trying to generate $12.6M in revenue this way then to try and keep the Coyotes and be bent over the barrel by Bettman and the league and likely whoever the new owner is.

[bunkaroo]

Originally Posted by Deftones

Yes, because Fox Sports Net bought the rights to air all Coyotes games and Dbacks games and most Suns games. 1 channel for 3 sports that have overlapping seasons. Coyotes and Dbacks used to be on local tv, but that changed when the deals ended. The Suns still play a few games per year on local TV, but those are fewer and fewer each season. So if you don't have cable/sat with that specific sports programming, you don't get to see them.

I'm surprised they don't have alternate channels like CSN does. That really blows - I'd be pissed if I couldn't see every Dbacks game living there.

[Deftones]

Originally Posted by bunkaroo

I'm surprised they don't have alternate channels like CSN does. That really blows - I'd be pissed if I couldn't see every Dbacks game living there.

they do in fox sports arizona+ but it's not always used.

[Red Dog]

Originally Posted by Deftones

they do in fox sports arizona+ but it's not always used.

Isn't it right next to the main channel in your channel lineup, which should be easy to find?

That's how DTV does it with the +overflow RSNs, like CSN-Wash+ (and MASN2 - only on when the O's and Nats play at the same time) locally.

[bunkaroo]

It almost sounds like they don't feel it's worth it to use overflow. Like they expect there are only enough fans to watch one game at a time or something LOL.