The 2012 NFL Offseason Thread

[wildcatlh]

And Chiefs WR Dwayne Bowe and Raiders S Tyvon Branch

The Eagles should use Stevie Johnson's contract as a point for negotiations with DeSean Jackson. They're very similar players.

[Decker]

I'm very surprised about Mathis. Seems like the Colts were getting ready to let him go. Besides they're about to be flush with money. Guess they figured he was likely to get way overpaid by someone in need of a pass rusher and I concede that their defense is pretty awful except for their defensive ends and maybe they figured they couldn't risk it getting any worse. Wonder what it'll cost them to keep Mathis around next year.

Figured that the Chiefs would franchise Bowe. Glad they did, as without him, they have no vertical threat. The writing was on the wall when they signed Raiders CB Stanford Routt that they were getting ready to let Brandon Carr walk (with the unspoken plan of franchising Bowe if they needed to).

[Decker]

I don't know who Ashley Fox is, but the mere fact that she's suggesting on ESPN that Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis should be fired over this bounty thing just confirms to me that she's an idiot who doesn't know what she's talking about.

[davidh777]

Originally Posted by Decker

I don't know who Ashley Fox is, but the mere fact that she's suggesting on ESPN that Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis should be fired over this bounty thing just confirms to me that she's an idiot who doesn't know what she's talking about.

Whoever she is, I bet she wasn't born with that name

[eXcentris]

Here is a list of all the players who have received the franchise tag in 2012:

Arizona Cardinals, DE Calais Campbell, $10.6 million
Atlanta Falcons, CB Brent Grimes, $10.6 million
Baltimore Ravens, RB Ray Rice, $7.7 million
Chicago Bears, RB Matt Forte, $7.7 million
Cincinnati Bengals, K Matt Nugent, $2.6 million
Cleveland Browns, K Phil Dawson, $3.8 million
Dallas Cowboys, LB Anthony Spencer, $8.8 million
Denver Broncos, K Matt Prater, $2.6 million
Detroit Lions, DE Cliff Avril, $10.6 million
Indianapolis Colts, DE Robert Mathis, $10.6 million
Jacksonville Jaguars, K Josh Scobee, $2.6 million
Kansas City Chiefs, WR Dwayne Bowe, $9.4 million
New England Patriots, WR Wes Welker, $9.4 million
New Orleans Saints, QB Drew Brees, $16-17 million
New York Giants, P Steve Weatherford, $2.6 million
Oakland Raiders, S Tyvon Branch, $6.2 million
Philadelphia Eagles, WR DeSean Jackson, $9.4 million
San Francisco 49ers, S Dashon Goldson, $6.2 million
Tampa Bay Buccaneers, K Connor Barth, $2.6 million
Tennessee Titans, S Michael Griffin, $6.2 million
Washington Redskins, TE Fred Davis, $5.4 million

[Decker]

Man, featured Running Backs are a bargain. No wonder Forte and Rice got franchised, that's chump change compared to what other skilled positions get.

[shadowhawk2020]

5 Kickers and a Punter...

[CRM114]

Giants franchised Weatherford? Is he good? All I recall is him kicking to Desean Jackson and Coughlin getting all red.

[raven56706]

Originally Posted by CRM114

Giants franchised Weatherford? Is he good? All I recall is him kicking to Desean Jackson and Coughlin getting all red.

that was Matt Dodge....

Weatherford is the guy who put the Patriots under the 20 several times in the SuperBowl!

[Red Dog]

Maybe somebody can explain something to me about Bountygate.

First, would not the fines levied by the league for excessive hits exceed any bounty to be paid? Thus, it's already self-policing. Second, do we really believe that in the course of a fast-moving play that players' tackles or hits would be any different than if there wasn't a bounty?

[mcnabb]

Originally Posted by Red Dog

Maybe somebody can explain something to me about Bountygate.

First, would not the fines levied by the league for excessive hits exceed any bounty to be paid? Thus, it's already self-policing. Second, do we really believe that in the course of a fast-moving play that players' tackles or hits would be any different than if there wasn't a bounty?

I think the difference is 'intent' and that is what the NFL is trying to crack down on. I played Football my whole life and it is very easy to take someone out of the game with a late hit or dirty hit. I had one teammate in high school take out the other teams best player as when he was getting blocked by a player, and then my buddy dove right at his knees (which is illegal when someone is in the act of blocking someone else). He ended the guys season as he was All-State, and it never sat well with me. Did our coach tell him to do that, who knows?

So, I guess my answer is there are going to be big hits when in a contact sport like the NFL, and injuries can't be avoided. As long as their 'Legal' hits in the context of the game, I don't have a problem. But if guys are going after a QB with late hits and hits to the knees just to injure him, then that is where I have a problem.

Now in saying all this, the only reason this idiot Greg Williams got caught is because he documented all the bounty pay-outs, so he got caught red-handed. In the future, it will be more of a wink-wink between players and coaches so there is no trace of evidence.

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by raven56706

that was Matt Dodge....

Weatherford is the guy who put the Patriots under the 20 several times in the SuperBowl!

No, Weatherford kicked it right to him again and he ran it back to the 14.

[Red Dog]

I don't know if 'intent' is the right word. You intend to hit the opponent hard already. Now maybe you are thinking of motive -- as in there is an additional motive.

I do agree with your last point.

[Xander]

Originally Posted by mcnabb

So, I guess my answer is there are going to be big hits when in a contact sport like the NFL, and injuries can't be avoided. As long as their 'Legal' hits in the context of the game, I don't have a problem. But if guys are going after a QB with late hits and hits to the knees just to injure him, then that is where I have a problem.

That IS the big difference. You've got Cutler talking about how Saints kicked him in the throat after sacking him. You've got Adrian Peterson talking about Saints grabbing his bad ankle and twisting it after the play was dead. Bullshit like that to get guys off the field, plus BONUSES if they don't return. That's not what football is about. I'm fine with hard hits, but do it legally. There's plenty of ways to take a guy down without resorting to cheap shots that could cause serious injury.

I'm also still pissed that the Saints put Gabe Carimi out for the whole season and Earl Bennett out for 5 games last season.

[Goat3001]

As bad as the punishment will be for the Saints defense it's not going to be fun in the coming years for Brees and his offense. They might not have known the full details of the bounty program (though I'm sure most did) and they might be on the outside of this but next year you just know that every team will be gunning to put a hurting on Brees.

[raven56706]

Originally Posted by CRM114

No, Weatherford kicked it right to him again and he ran it back to the 14.

sure but Coughlin wasnt pissed this one time... Weatherford is awesome...

[Trevor]

The more I think about the more I want a "Death Penalty" for the Saints.

Playing hard and hitting hard is part of the game, but trying to injure people is f'ed up nonsense.

[raven56706]

NFL pulled the replay of the Saints vs Vikings playoff game... looks like this wont end well for the Saints... someone is getting f'ed for this....

cant wait... thats big bunch of bull and thank god the 49ers beat them.... if not the Saints would have probably gone to the superbowl and tainted it.

[shadowhawk2020]

NFL must admit that rules have changed

UPDATED MAR 6, 2012 2:47 AM ET

John Lynch played for 15 years in the NFL for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Denver Broncos. The NFL on FOX analyst generally was regarded as one of the hardest-hitting safeties ever to play.

The circus officially arrived on Park Avenue in Manhattan on Monday as Bountygate reached the offices of the NFL.

Former New Orleans Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams was summoned to New York to meet with NFL investigators about league allegations that Williams was running a bounty program in New Orleans and apparently at a few other places he previously worked (Washington and Buffalo).

Over the past few days I've heard a few people, including former players, say that this is a league-wide problem. That's total BS. I played in the NFL for 15 years for two teams and never once was offered money to knock someone out of a game. If I had been offered money, I'd be a really wealthy man today. I even called some of my friends that played to see if they ever had been offered any bounties. None had. Don't get me wrong, we had player-generated incentives within our locker room, like $500 for interceptions or forced fumbles, but never, ever for hurting someone.

I'm not saying that there never have been bounties. When I first came into the league in '93, I heard other players talking about them, but those were more in terms of big hits and not hurting people. Coincidentally, teams stopped that process once the salary cap became part of the NFL. Any incentives were seen by the league as trying to circumvent the cap.

And I certainly heard the rumors about the 2009 NFC Championship Game between the Saints and Vikings where a bounty was put out on Minnesota quarterback Brett Favre. In the league investigation that came out Friday, that now appears to be the case. The report said that Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma offered any defensive teammate $10,000 to knock Favre out of the game. Favre took some big shots in that game, and I remember thinking a couple of them were borderline late and could have been called as penalties.

Favre since has come out and said, "It's football" and that he is not upset with the Saints. That's the way Brett is. If I heard somebody had a bounty on me, it wouldn't have bothered me, but I certainly would have had my head on a swivel.

I think the biggest fallacy is that most players are out to hurt other players. I never experienced that.

As a safety, I did want players that came into my area to know they were going to pay for it. If a receiver came my way, I wanted to make it uncomfortable for him, to make sure he thought twice about coming my way again. Or if a running back was fighting for extra yards, I punished him to make sure he would have second thoughts about fighting for those extra yards the next time. But I never did it with the intent of injuring or taking someone out of the game.

That's the mentality that defenses are supposed to have, and it's how football should be played. It's ridiculous to think any other way.

It appears that most of the Saints chain of command knew what was going on. Sean Payton is a good friend of mine, and I think he's one of the best coaches in the game. While I think most of this is on Williams, some responsibility still falls on Payton and general manager Mickey Loomis if they didn't try to put an immediate stop to this once they found out.

With his decision, commissioner Roger Goodell has a great opportunity to reinforce one of his top initiatives of player safety, so he's got to prove he's serious.

Today's game is so fast, and players sometimes are being fined over a matter of inches. To do something as blatant as the Saints were doing — to try to hurt players and knock them out of the game — is egregious in my mind.

I think the commissioner has to make a big statement with the punishment. Whatever the punishment is, it needs to be reflected in the severity of what the Saints did. If he doesn't act accordingly, he'll lose credibility with the players.

However, there is one thing that is still bugging me about all of this. The league wants you to believe that the rules haven't changed. But they have.

I recently watched an NFL Films show on big hits that included old footage, and I can't tell you how many players would have been fined or suspended by today's standards — and I only watched for 15 minutes.

I think there's a little bit of hypocrisy going on. The NFL can't have it both ways. It can't celebrate the hits on one hand, yet come down on the players on the other. And that's always been the frustration of a lot of players.

I started playing in 1993, and I don't think I was fined for a hit the first four years of my career. Then, I was fined for the first time in 1997. I can tell you my game didn't change one bit. I was still playing the exact same way.

I've talked to Goodell, and I truly do think he cares a lot about the players. And if player safety is the way the league is going to go, then the first step needs to be for the NFL to admit that the rules have changed.

Tell players that with the new information the league has received, it thinks it's best for the players that the rules have changed. It will go a long way to help players understand the league's position, because I think the league loses a little credibility when it fines players for some of the unavoidable hits that are taking place.

I'm still not sure if the studies that have been done so far give us enough information to determine the true effect these hits are having on players. But I have talked to players who have been involved with the studies, and they say the guys who are feeling the most long-term effects are the interior lineman, the guys who butt heads play in and play out.

I guess you could say the lineman are a little like boxers; they are getting jabbed on every play. It's not necessarily the guys taking the big hits, but the guys up front who are suffering the most trauma.

The NFL is a multibillion-dollar industry. If you want to make safety better, dump money into technology. Develop a helmet that's safer. I'd challenge every graduate school in the country and give $5 million to the winner for developing the best, safest helmet.

What can't be forgotten is that football is a rough game and that big hits are a part of being under football's big top. It's one of the reasons why it has become America's No. 1 sport.

I think Lynch's take is spot on.

[Noonan]

That's a great article and I agree with all his points. I think the hardest part will always be the subjectivity of calling penalties on hits. The HQ can watch slow motion replays to determine if a hit constitutes a fine but the officials have only a few seconds to decide if they're going to throw a flag or not. With all the controversy over big hits, there definitely seemed to be more flags than there should have been this past season. Maybe make those big hit penalties reviewable?

[Cusm]

Originally Posted by Bluelitespecial

I remember the NFC Champioship game the year they won the super bowl, and definately believe it. I thought it was a pretty dirty game.

As a Viking's fan I was so pissed at that game. Then the local OKC sports radio was talking about the DC on the New Orlean's sports radio talking the week before about telling his guys to just hurt Favre, no matter during or after the play. I have hated the Saints ever since and can not wait for them to be the Aints again.

[davidh777]

Agree with Lynch.

Why is it a bad thing to admit the rules have changed? I know they can be frustrating, but I think it's a positive move overall.

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by Trevor

The more I think about the more I want a "Death Penalty" for the Saints.

Playing hard and hitting hard is part of the game, but trying to injure people is f'ed up nonsense.

Defensive players always try and hurt someone. Sanctioning it with rewards is something altogether different though, I agree.

[raven56706]

Goodell sees bounty case as a turning point in NFL’s culture change

Posted by Michael David Smith on March 6, 2012, 12:04 PM EST

Roger Goodell has made no secret that he wants part of his legacy as commissioner to be a safer NFL. The way he handles the Saints bounty case may go a long way toward shaping his legacy, and changing the attitudes of NFL players, coaches and teams toward player safety.

Peter King has a story in this week’s Sports Illustrated, available on the magazine’s Facebook page, that suggests Goodell is furious about the bounties and planning to take severe action.

“This is a seminal moment in the culture change we have to make,” a source close to Goodell said. “This has to stop now. Every team needs to hear the message that we’re in a different era now, where this appalling behavior is going to end.”

The source told King that when Goodell first heard the allegations of the Saints paying bounties, the commissioner said, “God forbid this is true. This will be earth-shattering.”

Former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams appears to be in very deep trouble with Goodell, as comparisons continue to be raised with the 1963 case in which Commissioner Pete Rozelle suspended Paul Hornung and Alex Karras for an entire season for their involvement in gambling. According to King, when Goodell first confronted Williams with evidence that he had been involved in paying bounties, Williams denied it, which will surely not win Williams any points. He has since admitted his involvement.

Saints head coach Sean Payton may be in big trouble as well, with one league source involved in the investigation saying the way Payton ran things “Reminds me of the Nixon White House.”

King’s sources suggest that Goodell will come down hardest on Williams, Payton, Saints G.M. Mickey Loomis and Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma, who reportedly offered $10,000 cash to any player who could knock Brett Favre out of the NFC Championship Game.

Goodell made his mark as commissioner by cracking down on players’ off-field misconduct. Those who encouraged injuring opposing players through on-field misconduct are about to feel Goodell’s wrath.

wont be surprised if Payton is suspended for the year and Williams is kicked out of the league...

Doesnt sound like Goodell will be light on the penalty...

[davidh777]

Ban Williams from the league.