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Old 11-08-11, 08:28 AM   #51
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

I think people are saying that Paterno deserves blame on moral grounds not legal. Do you just think Paterno is totally clean in this?
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Old 11-08-11, 08:56 AM   #52
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

Coaches are being fired or resigning for fairly small financial issues (that I believe they didn't have much if any direct involvement in), I don't think it's too far out there to expect Paterno and his staff to be gone.
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Old 11-08-11, 09:09 AM   #53
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
I think people are saying that Paterno deserves blame on moral grounds not legal. Do you just think Paterno is totally clean in this?
I certainly don't know nor would my opinion matter nor be formed without more information. For example, is it moral to put more faith in someone bringing an accusation than the accused? Would it be more moral of me to be suspicious of Paterno's moral compass than not?

That said, IF Paterno knew of the facts of the 1998 molestation OR chose to cast a "blind eye" to Sandusky's actions I would be beyond upset at his actions or inactions. More specifically, say for purposes of discussion that Penn State legal department told Joe a deal was cut around 1998 where Sandusky leaves the team but hangs around young men on campus and maintains an office in the sports department as part of the deal AND IF Paterno went along with it, Paterno would be okay on legal grounds but morally corrupt in my view. And IF that were the case should immediately resign.

A professor at Penn State had three framed hand-signed letters from Paterno on his office wall. All of them were letters of thanks for flunking one of his football players. That doesn't make him a saint, but then again if that's an indication of his moral compass, people might be better looking at their own. Time may tell.
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Old 11-08-11, 09:09 AM   #54
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

As far as I'm concerned, they don't have to make a big deal about it. Joe just announces his retirement at the end of the season. I suppose they have an interim AD.

Joe has to face the press today.
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Old 11-08-11, 09:14 AM   #55
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Sadly we live in a society that blames others with no consequences and little conscience. The grand jury absolved Paterno of any wrong doing and if you listened to the lead prosecutor yesterday, clearly Paterno is not a person of interest in this case. So yeah, those that matter see it the way I see it (with the information at hand) and not the way you see it. Deal.

Sadly, the reality of life is that people seem to want to see the mighty humbled and that is playing out in this thread. If I had my way Paterno would have been out as football coach years and years ago. But, I don't want him out as coach for not only following the law but meeting with the Grad Assistant quickly and reporting the problem quickly. Now there are some here that would only be satisfied if Paterno set up camp in front of Sandusky's house with a megaphone asking for Sandusky to surrender to authorities. There are some here that don't want to discuss that the D.A. dropped the ball in 1998 when Sandusky allegedly admitted to his crime in front of the police, no less.

Perhaps more will come out that will change my opinion, but blaming Paterno rather than the guys the grand jury is blaming, is what it is. A knee-jerk reaction to blame the guy with all the victories. Because it was his fault, right? So burn all the houses ... right?
This is bullshit. It's forgivable to pass the buck at first, but you don't just forget about somebody fucking a kid in your house. The next time you see the guy you should at least be asking the higher ups why the hell is this creep still on campus? Why hasn't he been arrested? Why is he still working with kids at the charity? And if the person the buck stopped with says "Hey, we told him not to bring his boy whores on campus anymore" the you punch the fucker in the face and go to the cops.
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Old 11-08-11, 09:14 AM   #56
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Originally Posted by ctyankee View Post
I certainly don't know nor would my opinion matter nor be formed without more information. For example, is it moral to put more faith in someone bringing an accusation than the accused? Would it be more moral of me to be suspicious of Paterno's moral compass than not?

That said, IF Paterno knew of the facts of the 1998 molestation OR chose to cast a "blind eye" to Sandusky's actions I would be beyond upset at his actions or inactions. More specifically, say for purposes of discussion that Penn State legal department told Joe a deal was cut around 1998 where Sandusky leaves the team but hangs around young men on campus and maintains an office in the sports department as part of the deal AND IF Paterno went along with it, Paterno would be okay on legal grounds but morally corrupt in my view. And IF that were the case should immediately resign.

A professor at Penn State had three framed hand-signed letters from Paterno on his office wall. All of them were letters of thanks for flunking one of his football players. That doesn't make him a saint, but then again if that's an indication of his moral compass, people might be better looking at their own. Time may tell.
You make it too complicated. My judgement of Joe Paterno rests on the simple fact that he passed the buck to the AD on a child rape by oner of his long time friends and associates. What the AD has to do with a heinous criminal act, I'm not sure. Joe kicked Austin Scott off the team for a rape charge that was later found baseless. Austin Scott's career was ruined. Unfortunately, Joe's moral compass didn't find it's way to his friend or the reputation of Penn State. Joe, morally to me, is every bit as guilty as Curley and Spanier.
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Old 11-08-11, 09:56 AM   #57
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
You make it too complicated. My judgement of Joe Paterno rests on the simple fact that he passed the buck to the AD on a child rape by oner of his long time friends and associates. What the AD has to do with a heinous criminal act, I'm not sure. Joe kicked Austin Scott off the team for a rape charge that was later found baseless. Austin Scott's career was ruined. Unfortunately, Joe's moral compass didn't find it's way to his friend or the reputation of Penn State. Joe, morally to me, is every bit as guilty as Curley and Spanier.
Obviously you have something against Paterno that biases your sense of fairness. Maybe because he kicked Maryland's ass each and every year for so long. Your oh so clever wordsmithing of Paterno passing "the buck" is doing what is required of him by LAW. Your fantasy of Paterno somehow ruining Austin Scott's "career" was suspending Scott from the team amidst a rape allegation. And you would be the same guy faulting Paterno for NOT suspending a potential rapist from the team if he kept him on. And there is not a major program in this country that would keep an accused rapist on their active roster. So cut the shit.

Further, Scott's career was not "ruined" at Penn State. He signed a contract with the Cleveland Browns and waived after the offensive coordinator found that "Scott has trouble grasping the offense and lacked a will to achieve." Perhaps while you're waving your moral compass you might actually get your facts straight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_...rican_football)
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Old 11-08-11, 10:01 AM   #58
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

Does anyone here actually know what exactly McQueary said to Paterno? A lot of accusations being thrown around when we're all missing this critical piece of info (at least as far as Paterno's moral obligations here).
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Old 11-08-11, 10:14 AM   #59
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread



CRM getting reamed for being a Penn State basher? Have I stumbled into bizarro DVDtalk?
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Old 11-08-11, 10:26 AM   #60
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Originally Posted by starman9000 View Post


CRM getting reamed for being a Penn State basher? Have I stumbled into bizarro DVDtalk?
Fair point. I edited my post to Paterno basher.

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Originally Posted by crm114
The problem with Penn State is their system. Until it changes and they clean house on the old guard (and I'm in no hurry for it to happen), look for mediocrity with a few great years scattered in. We lose to Ohio State because they get better players. We lose to Iowa because they have better coaching. There have been opportunities there for Penn State over the years, the teams just came up short.
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Old 11-08-11, 10:35 AM   #61
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Originally Posted by ctyankee View Post
Obviously you have something against Paterno that biases your sense of fairness. Maybe because he kicked Maryland's ass each and every year for so long. Your oh so clever wordsmithing of Paterno passing "the buck" is doing what is required of him by LAW. Your fantasy of Paterno somehow ruining Austin Scott's "career" was suspending Scott from the team amidst a rape allegation. And you would be the same guy faulting Paterno for NOT suspending a potential rapist from the team if he kept him on. And there is not a major program in this country that would keep an accused rapist on their active roster. So cut the shit.

Further, Scott's career was not "ruined" at Penn State. He signed a contract with the Cleveland Browns and waived after the offensive coordinator found that "Scott has trouble grasping the offense and lacked a will to achieve." Perhaps while you're waving your moral compass you might actually get your facts straight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_...rican_football)
Huh? First of all, my wife and I are both Penn State alumni from the class of 1990. We were both at Penn State when they won the national championship and there are no bigger fans of Paterno and the program than us.

There is no law preventing anyone from calling the police. What law are you speaking of? I work around children. If someone on the staff came to me and saw what they saw, I'd dial the police for them and sit with them while they made the call. Damn the chain of command.

As for Austin Scott, he was a top prospect who was robbed of his college career. He had the chance of becoming a top NFL pick. Because he missed his last years and sat collecting dust and was STILL selected as a free agent NFL player is a testament to his ability no matter how you want to besmirch the man. But the point remains, Joe made the right call there but dropped the ball when it came to his crony and his program.

BTW, Maryland?
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Old 11-08-11, 10:37 AM   #62
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Fair point. I edited my post to Paterno basher.
I can't be critical of Penn State football or I'm a Paterno basher? What the hell is going on here?
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Old 11-08-11, 10:41 AM   #63
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Joe has to face the press today.
Guess not. Penn State cancels the press conference.
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Old 11-08-11, 10:43 AM   #64
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
Does anyone here actually know what exactly McQueary said to Paterno? A lot of accusations being thrown around when we're all missing this critical piece of info (at least as far as Paterno's moral obligations here).
The grand jury report indicates that McQeary told Paterno "what he saw."

The report goes on to state that McQueary was found to be highly credible.

Since the AD and VP are being charged with perjury over what they said they were told, one would have to assume that McQueary told them exactly what he saw and when questioned, they told some story of only being told they were "horsing around."
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Old 11-08-11, 10:44 AM   #65
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Guess not. Penn State cancels the press conference.
That is a total dick move. There is national press from all over the country and earlier they put out a memo that they'd be answering questions about the Nebraska game. They honestly think this thing is going to go away.
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Old 11-08-11, 10:55 AM   #66
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

Penn St. needs to hire a competent PR firm to tell them how to handle this case. Or pull the Costanza method and do the opposite of whatever they think they should do.
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Old 11-08-11, 10:59 AM   #67
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

Some dude on Twitter: "Curtin Road by the stadium is bedlam."

They just realized now that there were news agencies from all over the country waiting for this press conference? C'mon guys.
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Old 11-08-11, 11:00 AM   #68
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

@psufootball Penn State football
PSU President Graham Spanier cancels Joe Paterno's press conference without consulting coach /rTsukN #PSUscandal #sandusky

and a pic of the memo handed out to press. Looks like it was typed by a 12 year old.

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Old 11-08-11, 11:02 AM   #69
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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As for Austin Scott, he was a top prospect who was robbed of his college career. He had the chance of becoming a top NFL pick. Because he missed his last years and sat collecting dust and was STILL selected as a free agent NFL player is a testament to his ability no matter how you want to besmirch the man.
I didn't "besmirch" Scott merely quoted a offensive coordinator of the Cleveland Browns that said "Scott has trouble grasping the offense and lacked a will to achieve." He didn't say that Scott wasn't talented or wasn't in shape ... far worse ... he basically said Scott was mentally slow and without the personal drive to excel. That's damning. I mean running backs tend to excel earlier than other rookie positions because it's a pretty basic position compared to many others. Regardless, the truth of the NFL is that even convicted felons get second chances if they can produce. Obviously some high profile athletes "collecting dust" as you put it are doing just fine in the NFL. Meanwhile, plenty of drafted picks join teams each and every year to be sent packing before training camp concludes. So stop playing the blame game. Scott not even stopping for a cup of coffee at another NFL team is on him.
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Old 11-08-11, 11:05 AM   #70
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Penn St. needs to hire a competent PR firm to tell them how to handle this case. Or pull the Costanza method and do the opposite of whatever they think they should do.
Fair Point. That or something else is afoot.
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Old 11-08-11, 11:05 AM   #71
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

Bah. If Scott played his full career as the feature back he was recruited to be, his life probably could have turned out a lot different. Sandusky had a great life.

Now what's with this Maryland nonsense? When was the last time we even played Maryland? Perhaps you are out of touch not being in Pennsylvania and away from the story.
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Old 11-08-11, 11:11 AM   #72
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Originally Posted by Dr_Evil View Post
Guess not. Penn State cancels the press conference.

Spineless cowards.

Paterno said he was looking forward to the press conference and addressing the allegations. What a crock of shit.
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Old 11-08-11, 11:12 AM   #73
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

From State College. Well said:

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OUR VIEW: Penn State's Graham Spanier, Joe Paterno need to leave as result of Jerry Sandusky case. Doing what the law required wasn't enough

Published: Tuesday, November 08, 2011, 7:00 AM Updated: Tuesday, November 08, 2011, 9:59 AM
By Patriot-News Editorial Board

NABIL K. MARK/Centre Daily Times

There are the obligations we all have to uphold the law. There are then the obligations we all have to do what is right.
It has become increasingly clear that while Penn State University President Graham Spanier has not been charged with breaking any laws, he did not do what is right — for his school or, more importantly, for the alleged victims of coaching legend Jerry Sandusky.

Spanier needs to step aside. If he doesn’t, the university board of trustees needs to take that step when it meets this week.

As for Joe Paterno, the face of Penn State and the man who has pushed for excellence on the football field and for the entire university, this must be his last season. His contract should not be extended.

This is not about age. This is not about rebuilding a football team.

It is impossible not to cringe when hearing the charges against Sandusky. From 1994 to 2008, he is said to have sexually abused eight boys as young as 8 years old. Some victims reported up to 20 incidents.

Though Sandusky is said by the attorney general’s office to have found the boys through his Second Mile charity for kids, many incidents are said to have happened in the football locker room at Penn State — both before and after Sandusky retired as a Nittany Lions coach in 1999.

The allegations are horrifying in nature, stupefying in quantity, nauseating in detail.

The courts will determine whether Jerry Sandusky is guilty of any crime. Until then, he is presumed innocent. That is the bedrock of our democracy.

The court system will also determine whether Athletic Director Tim Curley and university Vice President Gary Schultz committed perjury. The twists and turns of such things as the statute of limitations and legal definitions will play key roles in the courtroom.

But right now, here, today, we know what Spanier and Paterno did — and did not do.

According to the grand jury, in 2002, then-graduate assistant Mike McQueary saw Sandusky performing a sex act on a young boy in the football locker room showers. Distraught, he went to head coach Joe Paterno.

Paterno’s response was to tell his boss. He called Curley at home, on a Sunday — he knew it was serious.

He told Curley that Sandusky had been seen “fondling or doing something of a sexual nature” with a boy in the showers.

That is what Paterno said under oath.


And with that, the attorney general has determined, Joe Paterno fulfilled his obligation under the law.

Graham Spanier, too, apparently did everything the law required.

Curley and Schultz told Spanier there was “inappropriate conduct” between Sandusky and the boy.

Curley insists that is what he heard from McQueary. Schultz concedes that he heard “Sandusky might have inappropriately grabbed” the young boy’s private parts.

So how did a college football legend, known nationally for the integrity of his program, respond to a report of “something of a sexual nature” occurring between his longtime colleague and a little boy?

And how did a university president responsible for the welfare of thousands of young people respond to the very idea that an older man was showering with a boy and engaging in “inappropriate conduct” on campus?

They banned Jerry Sandusky from bringing children on campus.

That was all.


Here is what they did not do:

Neither Joe Paterno nor Graham Spanier called the police.

Neither Joe Paterno nor Graham Spanier seem to have demonstrated any concern for the victim. They never tried to find him. They never tried to get him the emotional help he might need.

When Paterno heard that the milquetoast response was to ban Sandusky from bringing kids on campus — a ban that Curley himself called unenforceable — there is no indication Joe ever went to Spanier to warn him that this could be far more serious.

Spanier didn’t even think it important to speak personally with McQueary. If he had, McQueary would have told him what he told the grand jury: that he saw a boy pinned against the shower wall and Sandusky engaged in what the law calls “involuntary deviate sexual intercourse.”

How about more recently?

Paterno and Spanier both knew that a grand jury was investigating Sandusky for possible sexual abuse. They were called to testify. Yet Sandusky continued to have a private office on campus and access to any building.

At midnight Sunday, Spanier issued a statement that said, “The protection of children is of paramount importance. The university will take a number of actions moving forward to increase the safety and security within our facilities and make everyone aware of the protocols in place for handling these issues.”

Where was Spanier’s concern when he first heard about the investigation?

That was the time to think: “Whether Jerry Sandusky committed a crime or not, I need to ensure the safety of children on our campus right now.”

The attorney general has determined that Paterno and Spanier did everything the law required. But a university president must be held to a higher standard. The most famous coach in college football history must be held to a higher standard.

Since taking the reins in 1995, Graham Spanier has done great things for Penn State. He has built world-class facilities, added a law school, increased fundraising and strengthened the school’s reputation as a center for research.

But a leader who lacks moral authority has nothing. By doing the absolute minimum when hearing potentially serious allegations, by doing more to protect the school’s reputation than to protect children, Spanier has lost that moral authority.

Joe Paterno is a different story. That doesn’t let him off the hook. He should have done more. A man who has spoken with such affection for 46 years about “his kids” failed real kids when they needed him most.

But this incident does not undo a lifetime of achievement.

Some people will argue that Joe should step down immediately as well. Given what we know now, we don’t agree. Paterno should be allowed to finish out the year and retire with the honor and admiration he has earned since taking over as head coach in 1966.

It might always be honor with an asterisk, admiration with a shake of the head. Joe will have to live with that.


There will be other people who argue that Graham Spanier and Joe Paterno should not be punished at all. After all, they obeyed the law.

Eight little boys would have said: that simply isn’t enough.
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Old 11-08-11, 11:14 AM   #74
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Now what's with this Maryland nonsense? When was the last time we even played Maryland? Perhaps you are out of touch not being in Pennsylvania and away from the story.
Perhaps. I thought you lived in Maryland, must be confusing you will another poster.
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Old 11-08-11, 11:17 AM   #75
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

New York Times is saying Paterno is on his way out.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sp...exit.html?_r=1


Joe Paterno’s tenure as coach of the Penn State football team will soon be over, perhaps within days or weeks, in the wake of a sex-abuse scandal that has implicated university officials, according to two people briefed on conversations among the university’s top officials.

The board of trustees has yet to determine the precise timing of Paterno’s exit, but it is clear that the man who has more victories than any other coach at college football’s top level and who made Penn State a prestigious brand will not survive to coach another season. Discussions about how to manage his departure have begun, according to the two people.
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