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Old 11-07-11, 11:39 AM   #26
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
I wanted McQueary AND Joe to immediately call the police and tell them they saw Sandusky raping a child. Why is there a chain of command process in something like this?
Because there is no "they saw" - Joe saw nothing. And the why there is a chain of command is simple. It's not to expect those that are experts in football or accounting to be expert in all matters but to raise those matters to those that are tasked with knowing how to proceed or working with their legal staffs to finding how to proceed. Keep in mind, this whole thing becomes more complicated as Sandusky was a former coach at the time.
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Old 11-07-11, 11:42 AM   #27
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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I don't think it's fine. I think you immediately confront the guy and save the kid. I don't get the chain of command argument.
I agree, ideally he would have stepped in and stopped what was happening.
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Old 11-07-11, 11:43 AM   #28
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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I don't think it's fine. I think you immediately confront the guy and save the kid. I don't get the chain of command argument.
Obviously the grad student makes the call to the police, things might have been different. Obviously, if he confronted Sandusky in the act things would have been different. But he was the only one with the chance to "immediately" confront Sandusky and he didn't do it. But I for one am not going to sit around blaming some young man for not reacting perfectly in a nightmarish situation.
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Old 11-07-11, 11:57 AM   #29
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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My thoughts exactly. Chain of command is fine if something gets done right away, but after nothing happens? Straight to the police.
Relying on chain of command is not fine for child rape. No way.
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Old 11-07-11, 01:36 PM   #30
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

Yeah, I don't get this "chain of command" business, either.

This wasn't some guy nicking office supplies of cheating on overtime. A very serious violent crime was (allegedly) witnessed; this should have gone directly to the police.

What do you do if you see some guy murder a coed? Go up the chain of command and hope the administration does something, or call the cops?
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Old 11-07-11, 01:45 PM   #31
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Because there is no "they saw" - Joe saw nothing. And the why there is a chain of command is simple. It's not to expect those that are experts in football or accounting to be expert in all matters but to raise those matters to those that are tasked with knowing how to proceed or working with their legal staffs to finding how to proceed. Keep in mind, this whole thing becomes more complicated as Sandusky was a former coach at the time.
McQueary saw it and told Joe. The grand jury found McQueary credible and the other two administrators no credible.

I'll tell you what I think of chain of command. If I saw what McQueary did, I would have called 911 and then went in and directly confronted Sandusky and saved that child from further abuse. Unbelievable that people think this is a chain of command issue.
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Old 11-07-11, 01:46 PM   #32
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Obviously the grad student makes the call to the police, things might have been different. Obviously, if he confronted Sandusky in the act things would have been different. But he was the only one with the chance to "immediately" confront Sandusky and he didn't do it. But I for one am not going to sit around blaming some young man for not reacting perfectly in a nightmarish situation.
McQueary was 28 years old at the time.

He thought differently because he didn't want to be the one to bring down Penn State.
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Old 11-07-11, 01:59 PM   #33
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

It's being reported that Sandusky was still seen on campus using the gym last week.
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Old 11-07-11, 02:12 PM   #34
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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It's being reported that Sandusky was still seen on campus using the gym last week.
Boy, some guys never learn, do they?
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Old 11-07-11, 02:15 PM   #35
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

I only know what I've read in this thread (and I didn't read the grand jury link). Was Sandusky working with the team at the time? Police, chain of command, whatever, if I heard a co-worker had been caught fucking a 10 year old in the company bathroom it sure as hell wouldn't be business as usual if he showed up at the office.
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Old 11-07-11, 02:23 PM   #36
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

He retired in 1999 and was a Coach Emeritus meaning he had an office and full access to the university as any employee would. He had nothing to do with coaching the team however.

And its now speculated that his retirement was forced after the first investigation in 1998 occurred. We were talking last night and we remembered being surprised that Sandusky was retiring. No one ever retires from Penn State.
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Old 11-07-11, 04:01 PM   #37
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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And its now speculated that his retirement was forced after the first investigation in 1998 occurred. We were talking last night and we remembered being surprised that Sandusky was retiring. No one ever retires from Penn State.
I thought the same thing. Shades of the Catholic Church and such ... sad to say.
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Old 11-07-11, 04:44 PM   #38
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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McQueary saw it and told Joe. The grand jury found McQueary credible and the other two administrators no credible.

I'll tell you what I think of chain of command. If I saw what McQueary did, I would have called 911 and then went in and directly confronted Sandusky and saved that child from further abuse. Unbelievable that people think this is a chain of command issue.
I agree with you completely...I guess my previous comment was from Paterno's perspective. But if I saw that happening, I honestly think I would've done something to get myself put in jail (Sandusky wouldn't have been walking out of the shower)...but at the very least McQueary should have gone straight to the police. And if he wanted, gone to Paterno after that.
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Old 11-07-11, 04:56 PM   #39
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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I agree with you completely...I guess my previous comment was from Paterno's perspective. But if I saw that happening, I honestly think I would've done something to get myself put in jail (Sandusky wouldn't have been walking out of the shower)...but at the very least McQueary should have gone straight to the police. And if he wanted, gone to Paterno after that.
100% agree. But a part of me can sympathize why he didn't, because the guy he saw was not just some random dude, it was an icon, someone high up in the "church" hierarchy, and he might have been thinking that going to the cops would mean the end of his own career.
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Old 11-07-11, 05:09 PM   #40
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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I agree with you completely...I guess my previous comment was from Paterno's perspective. But if I saw that happening, I honestly think I would've done something to get myself put in jail (Sandusky wouldn't have been walking out of the shower)...but at the very least McQueary should have gone straight to the police. And if he wanted, gone to Paterno after that.
I don't think there is anyone in this thread doesn't wish McQueary interceded or at least called the police immediately. It's easy to be an Internet wonder saying what you would have done in a situation. All I know is I met Sandusky around 1987 and he looked like someone that could beat you, your brother, your uncle and your dad all at the same time. 15 years later, I'm guessing that he might have still been the kind of imposing figure that might have given McQuery pause to intercede.
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Old 11-07-11, 06:04 PM   #41
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

I don't think his physical stature means anything. Walking out and yelling "I'm calling the police!" would at least be something. From the grand jury report McQueary said both Sandusky and the child saw him, which hopefully ended the incident.

Also, I can't believe the only result from the administration was to instruct Sandusky not to bring kids onto campus anymore. No wonder heads are rolling over this. That's basically saying "We don't mind if you fuck kids, just don't do it on campus."
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Old 11-07-11, 06:28 PM   #42
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

Another very interesting twist and/or conspiracy theory to the story:

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind..._da_ray_g.html

Here are some of the facts from the article:

-Centre County DA, Ray Gricar, was the one who made the decision not to prosecute Sandusky after the 1998 incident

-They are not sure why he decided not to prosecute

-Gricar disappeared April 15, 2005, after taking a day off work to drive to Lewisburg. His disappearance has been the subject of a lot of speculation.

-His laptop hard drive, which was found dumped in the Susquehanna River near where his car was parked in Lewisburg, was too badly damaged by water to be read.

-Gricar declared dead in July of this year.

Pretty fucking weird.
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Pavel Datsyuk on his coach saying he gives teammates extra room on the ice: "I think he meant that I am really small," Datsyuk explained. "So when I, a small slim person, am on the ice, there is more room for bigger guys. Maybe he said that to cheer me up that I look skinny!"
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Old 11-07-11, 06:45 PM   #43
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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I wanted McQueary AND Joe to immediately call the police and tell them they saw Sandusky raping a child. Why is there a chain of command process in something like this?
This!
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Old 11-07-11, 07:59 PM   #44
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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With the information at hand, you can't have one standard for Paterno and another for some assistant coach. The grad. assistant went up the chain of command and so did Joe. The buck stops at the top. If Paterno didn't follow the chain of command that would be another matter. Paterno is the football coach, not C.I.U. - University Park. And to suggest that Paterno should be responsible for following up on the President of the University and his senior staff to make sure they do their darn jobs is unwarranted.

However, I do wonder why anyone that could eye-witness that sort of crime, did not immediately call the police.
Are you seriously arguing that Joe Paterno isn't the top at Penn State? His lack of action in this circumstance is completely unacceptable. If you're told someone is raping a child in the showers of your locker room, you don't tell the AD and call it a day. What is wrong with people to think he should be let off the hook? Sandusky was seen raping a child! Short of murder, is there anything worse?
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Old 11-07-11, 08:39 PM   #45
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

Excellent and concise commentary from The Nation - sums my feelings up pretty well. Paterno is forever disgraced in my eyes.

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Penn State has never been an “outlaw program.” It’s what every school aspires to become. Think about that. Every school aspires to be the kind of place where football is so valuable that children can become collateral damage. If the allegations are true, if the school in fact knew this was going on, then the program should be shut down. If the allegations are true, Joe Paterno should be instructed to take his forty-six years and 409 wins and leave in disgrace. It’s tragic that it’s come to this for a legend like Paterno. But it’s even more tragic that protecting his legend mattered more than stopping a child-rapist in their midst. Damn Sandusky. Damn Paterno. Damn Penn State. But above all, damn the fact that the billion-dollar logic of big-time college football leads to decisions as venal as those made in Happy Valley.
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Pavel Datsyuk on his coach saying he gives teammates extra room on the ice: "I think he meant that I am really small," Datsyuk explained. "So when I, a small slim person, am on the ice, there is more room for bigger guys. Maybe he said that to cheer me up that I look skinny!"
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Old 11-07-11, 09:26 PM   #46
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

Jesus...Sandusky was still using PSU facilities up until LAST WEEK to work out.
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Pavel Datsyuk on his coach saying he gives teammates extra room on the ice: "I think he meant that I am really small," Datsyuk explained. "So when I, a small slim person, am on the ice, there is more room for bigger guys. Maybe he said that to cheer me up that I look skinny!"
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Old 11-07-11, 11:25 PM   #47
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

Paterno needs to go yesterday. Ugh. What chain of command? The buck stops at Joe...he is Penn State's athletic kingpin. What an absolute disgrace to not involve the police as soon he heard the allegations.
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Old 11-07-11, 11:38 PM   #48
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

i'm sure PSU was happy to see Sandusky in his coaches jacket today outside his home...

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Pavel Datsyuk on his coach saying he gives teammates extra room on the ice: "I think he meant that I am really small," Datsyuk explained. "So when I, a small slim person, am on the ice, there is more room for bigger guys. Maybe he said that to cheer me up that I look skinny!"
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Old 11-08-11, 08:08 AM   #49
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Originally Posted by The Nation
If the allegations are true, if the school in fact knew this was going on, then the program should be shut down.
This is ridiculous unless by "shut down" the author means the entire coaching staff and AD cleared out. Joe should announce he will be retiring after this season and his entire staff should be replaced. This is tricky because the AD and the President of the university need to go too. But I cannot see penalizing these players.
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Old 11-08-11, 08:24 AM   #50
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Re: tOfficial Penn State/Sandusky Scandal Thread

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Are you seriously arguing that Joe Paterno isn't the top at Penn State? His lack of action in this circumstance is completely unacceptable. If you're told someone is raping a child in the showers of your locker room, you don't tell the AD and call it a day. What is wrong with people to think he should be let off the hook? Sandusky was seen raping a child! Short of murder, is there anything worse?
Sadly we live in a society that blames others with no consequences and little conscience. The grand jury absolved Paterno of any wrong doing and if you listened to the lead prosecutor yesterday, clearly Paterno is not a person of interest in this case. So yeah, those that matter see it the way I see it (with the information at hand) and not the way you see it. Deal.

Sadly, the reality of life is that people seem to want to see the mighty humbled and that is playing out in this thread. If I had my way Paterno would have been out as football coach years and years ago. But, I don't want him out as coach for not only following the law but meeting with the Grad Assistant quickly and reporting the problem quickly. Now there are some here that would only be satisfied if Paterno set up camp in front of Sandusky's house with a megaphone asking for Sandusky to surrender to authorities. There are some here that don't want to discuss that the D.A. dropped the ball in 1998 when Sandusky allegedly admitted to his crime in front of the police, no less.

Perhaps more will come out that will change my opinion, but blaming Paterno rather than the guys the grand jury is blaming, is what it is. A knee-jerk reaction to blame the guy with all the victories. Because it was his fault, right? So burn all the houses ... right?
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