ESPN's 30 For 30 Documentary Series

[Darmund]

Originally Posted by SethDLH

@ the bolded: I remember also Merauders and Americans in the running as well.

also, isn't Unitas in the HoF as an Indy Colt? That has always bothered the hell out of me.

Unitas was elected to the HoF in 1979 and the Colts were still in Baltimore and he played for Baltimore and San Diego so how exactly could he be in the HoF as an Indianapolis Colt?

That being said on the HoF website there is no individual listing for the Baltimore Colts, they are lumped in under the Indianapolis Colts. Only Eric Dickerson is in the Hall as an Indy Colt, at least until Manning and Harrison go in .

[SethDLH]

Originally Posted by Darmund

Unitas was elected to the HoF in 1979 and the Colts were still in Baltimore and he played for Baltimore and San Diego so how exactly could he be in the HoF as an Indianapolis Colt?

That being said on the HoF website there is no individual listing for the Baltimore Colts, they are lumped in under the Indianapolis Colts. Only Eric Dickerson is in the Hall as an Indy Colt, at least until Manning and Harrison go in .

Calm down there champ, apparently I was wrong. I knew there was something in there for the Indy Colts involving all the Baltimore guys, I was mixed up.

[bootsy]

Originally Posted by Daryl

Scott Skiles was another player who loved the nose-candy. Anyway, I have a "my run in with William Bedford" story. I'm at a barbershop on the west side of Detroit in like 1989 or 1990. Bedford comes struttin' in wearing a floor length leather coat with fur on it. Now, it was a Saturday morning, so it was fairly busy. I'm not sure if he expected to be put at the head of the line, or maybe he even expected someone to jump out of their chair so he could get cut (as if there were some "Pistons' 11th man on the bench" special rules or something) - but he was clearly not happy to have to wait ("aw man, that's bullshit!"). So he decides to leave - he struts toward the door trying to make an impressive exit. There was a step down right at the door, and apparently he forgot he was 7 feet tall - he smacks his head on the top of the doorway and stumbles out, clearly dazed a little. We all wait for the door to close behind him, and the whole barbershop breaks out laughing.

[davidh777]

Originally Posted by bootsy

I think what they should do as an extension of this is look at that draft as a whole. That was one f'ed up draft. I am a Sixers fan and I was absolutely pissed at what they did that day. They traded Moses Malone along with Terry Catledge and two first-round draft choices to the Bullets for Jeff Ruland and and Cliff Robinson. Then traded the 1st pick of the draft to Cleveland which turned out to be Brad Daugherty for Roy Hinson. So I was already in a foul mood. Then there were other players in that draft with drug problems:Chris Washburn, Roy Tarpley, and William Bedford. Some of the players in the 2nd round went on to have better careers than most picked in the 1st round: Mark Price, Dennis Rodman, Kevin Duckworth, Jeff Hornacek.

And didn't Ruland retire before he ever played for Philly? For all the flak Daughterty took at the time, he ended up with one of the better careers.

[bootsy]

Originally Posted by davidh777

And didn't Ruland retire before he ever played for Philly? For all the flak Daughterty took at the time, he ended up with one of the better careers.

He retired after 5 games. That was back when Harold Katz owned the team. I was so disappointed that day because I envisioned Daugherty coming off the bench as a rookie with Barkley, Dr. J, and Moses starting in the frontcourt. The team was getting older and that would have been a perfect transition period for the team.

[coli]

Originally Posted by bootsy

He retired after 5 games. That was back when Harold Katz owned the team. I was so disappointed that day because I envisioned Daugherty coming off the bench as a rookie with Barkley, Dr. J, and Moses starting in the frontcourt. The team was getting older and that would have been a perfect transition period for the team.

With the exception of 2001, the 76ers never recovered from that draft day. I vividly remember leaving my Babe Ruth Baseball game and my brother told me the 76ers traded the 1st pick overall for Roy Hinson and also traded Moses Malone for Jeff Ruland. I was in shock!!!!! Still can't believe what went down that day!

[bootsy]

Originally Posted by coli

With the exception of 2001, the 76ers never recovered from that draft day. I vividly remember leaving my Babe Ruth Baseball game and my brother told me the 76ers traded the 1st pick overall for Roy Hinson and also traded Moses Malone for Jeff Ruland. I was in shock!!!!! Still can't believe what went down that day!

They really haven't. Man I hated that day. It was like Katz just gave a big middle finger salute to all of the Sixer fans that day.

[coli]

Originally Posted by bootsy

They really haven't. Man I hated that day. It was like Katz just gave a big middle finger salute to all of the Sixer fans that day.

I remember the argument from Katz was that Daugherty wouldn't be able to play the low post with Barkley, and it would be too crowded down there. And 23 years later, we never had a legitimate center!

[bootsy]

Originally Posted by coli

I remember the argument from Katz was that Daugherty wouldn't be able to play the low post with Barkley, and it would be too crowded down there. And 23 years later, we never had a legitimate center!

Katz was a moron. Yeah like Roy Hinson was the answer. I just wish this franchise would do something significant. That Elton Brand pickup is starting to look worse day by day. Everytime I look at the Celtics I think of how they just went for it with the Garnett and Ray Allen trades. They didn't care about the future.

[Sonny Corinthos]

Did Boston get any type of compensation for the loss of Bias?

[davidh777]

Originally Posted by bootsy

He retired after 5 games. That was back when Harold Katz owned the team. I was so disappointed that day because I envisioned Daugherty coming off the bench as a rookie with Barkley, Dr. J, and Moses starting in the frontcourt. The team was getting older and that would have been a perfect transition period for the team.

Just like Bias would have done for Boston

[davidh777]

Originally Posted by Sonny Corinthos

Did Boston get any type of compensation for the loss of Bias?

No. To my knowledge of the three major sports, there's never been a system of compensating for lost/unsigned/blown draft picks until baseball started their +1 policy, which they almost needed to do because of their screwed-up system.

[bootsy]

Originally Posted by davidh777

Just like Bias would have done for Boston

Exactly and Boston was just coming off of a championship. They probably would have repeated that following season although it would have been an epic battle with the Lakers in 87.

[Trevor]

Just watched the Bias episode. I get moved by emotion to the point of welling up and almost crying quite often, but have had actual tears maybe 10 times in my entire life.

Make it 11. Even though I'm local and was a huge Len Bias and Maryland fan (turned down a full scholarship to Maryland); I had totally forgotten about the follow-up tragedy a few years later. Seeing their father's reaction to that moved me to tears.

[bootsy]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Just watched the Bias episode. I get moved by emotion to the point of welling up and almost crying quite often, but have had actual tears maybe 10 times in my entire life.

Make it 11. Even though I'm local and was a huge Len Bias and Maryland fan (turned down a full scholarship to Maryland); I had totally forgotten about the follow-up tragedy a few years later. Seeing their father's reaction to that moved me to tears.

I did have some tears. I was a big fan of his at Maryland and I don't live in that area. I didn't get very many ACC games here in the Midwest but when I saw him play at Carolina or in the ACC Tourney or NCAA Tourney I could tell this guy was going to be special once he got to the NBA. It's just sad we never got to see it happen.

[davidh777]

My recording of the Bias episode turned out to be a boxing match instead

[Daryl]

Last night's Jimmy the Greek episode was the first one that didn't really touch any type of nerve emotionally for me. It was still a good episode, though, and Phyllis George is still a great looking lady, even at age 60. One weird thing is how he basically fell off the face of the planet after getting fired by CBS for his comments. Nowadays, he'd have had to stay out of the limelight for a month or two, then reappear with a new radio talk show or something

[He Who Lurks No More]

I probably would have preferred a look at the creation of The NFL Today rather than focusing on Jimmy the Greek. I say that because I wasn't engaged by the focus on him, but was more interested in any time on the machinations and participants of the CBS show.

I see that the next one, The U, will air on December 12 and that the next one, Winning Time: Reggie Miller vs. The New York Knicks, is scheduled for March 2010. Seems odd that more weren't in the can before these were rolled out. I am looking forward to the Bartman one.

[WallyOPD]

I really enjoyed the episode but thought the Jimmy "voiceovers" were very odd and they took me out of the show each time they happened.

[coli]

Originally Posted by WallyOPD

I really enjoyed the episode but thought the Jimmy "voiceovers" were very odd and they took me out of the show each time they happened.

I really thought that was a bad idea, because the guy is dead, and it was sort of creepy listening to a person impersonating 'The Greeks' voice.

As for the documentary, it was very interesting. I started watching Football in the 80's, and I do remember that the CBS Pregame show was a must see for every fan. I never knew that Musberger and the Greek didn't get along, but I could see how The Greek could be a tough guy to work with. Back then, it was just a 1/2 hour, and that was enough. Now all the show are 1 hour, as I think the ESPN is 2 hours? Honestly, I stopped watching them as they are all annoying these days.

It really is true, sometimes less is more, especially with the pregame shows these days

[pjflyer]

Originally Posted by He Who Lurks No More

I probably would have preferred a look at the creation of The NFL Today rather than focusing on Jimmy the Greek. I say that because I wasn't engaged by the focus on him, but was more interested in any time on the machinations and participants of the CBS show.

I agree. Anytime Cross, George or Mussberger were telling stories it was very entertaining. Any time it was stories from the greek's family it was drudgery. It probably doesn't help that the subject of the documentary was an unlikable, seemingly ignorant blowhard.

[Red Dog]

I thought it was pretty good, particularly since it's a story that hasn't really been told before. Still amazes me of how he was able to brand himself as a product, particularly as it related to an illegal (for most of the country) enterprise. I was glued to the NFL Today starting in 1979 and to me the best part outside of the "You are looking live!" intros were Greek's segments. It really was must-see TV and NBC tried to replicate the Greek with Pete Axthelm, but he paled in comparison. I doubt I'd be anywhere as near into gambling if it weren't for him. I guess that could be looked at as a good or bad thing.

I always thought he kind of got a raw deal - not so much for what he said but because Channel 4 locally decided to shove a camera in his face after he had likely threw back 3 or 4 martinis with lunch to ask him about blacks in sports. I never thought his comments about black athletes and how they are such effective competitors (compared to whites) were particularly egregious. It was more the other stuff that I had forgetten (like how 'they' were shoving whites out of sports).

And of course we got to see how Jesse Jackson was right on the scene 21 years ago to accept the apology.

I see that the next one, The U, will air on December 12 and that the next one, Winning Time: Reggie Miller vs. The New York Knicks, is scheduled for March 2010.

Damn. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. ESPN/2 have major college and pro basketball commitments every night starting in December and going through March.

[coli]

Originally Posted by Red Dog

I always thought he kind of got a raw deal - not so much for what he said but because Channel 4 locally decided to shove a camera in his face after he had likely threw back 3 or 4 martinis with lunch to ask him about blacks in sports. I never thought his comments about black athletes and how they are such effective competitors (compared to whites) were particularly egregious. It was more the other stuff that I had forgetten (like how 'they' were shoving whites out of sports).

.

The mid 80's were the start of PC America. If you look at The Greeks comments, he pretty much said that black athletes are better then whites. And if you look at sports (other then Hockey), blacks dominate most sports. And he said in jest, "If Blacks take over coaching, then there won't be any jobs for whites!" Now I understand at the time that there was a stigma with being a black coach and a black QB, so it is something he shouldn't have said, whether it was true or not. Irv Cross, who spoke on the special, seemed to be the only one who defended him, as he said the Greek wasn't a racist, and he shouldn't have payed for the rest of his life with one stupid comment. Although I did not realize how much Musberger hated the Greek!

In the end, I think CBS wanted to get rid of him, and this was the perfect opportunity to do it.

[Red Dog]

Originally Posted by coli

The mid 80's were the start of PC America. If you look at The Greeks comments, he pretty much said that black athletes are better then whites. And if you look at sports (other then Hockey), blacks dominate most sports. And he said in jest, "If Blacks take over coaching, then there won't be any jobs for whites!" Now I understand at the time that there was a stigma with being a black coach and a black QB, so it is something he shouldn't have said, whether it was true or not. Irv Cross, who spoke on the special, seemed to be the only one who defended him, as he said the Greek wasn't a racist, and he shouldn't have payed for the rest of his life with one stupid comment. Although I did not realize how much Musberger hated the Greek!

In the end, I think CBS wanted to get rid of him, and this was the perfect opportunity to do it.

Yep. And I'm sure the hypocritical (on gambling) NFL wasn't displeased with his firing.

[bootsy]

Originally Posted by Red Dog

And of course we got to see how Jesse Jackson was right on the scene 21 years ago to accept the apology.

He also defended The Greek and said he deserved another chance.