2009 NBA offseason thread

[shadowhawk2020]

Originally Posted by Jam Master Jay

This won't happen if the Raptors sign Turkoglu. They can give him that 5 yr 56 million deal only if they renounce the rights to Marion, Delfino & Parker which looking at the front page of ESPN, Turkoglu will sign with Toronto. Kind of sucks I was looking forward to having him here in Portland. I really hate this whole week waiting period for all this stuff to be official. First the story breaks that he had agreed in principle and then a few hours later he's rejected the Blazers and is signing with the Raptors.

One rumor has Shawn Marion going to Orlando and Turk going to Toronto in a sign and trade.

[dx23]

Originally Posted by Jam Master Jay

This won't happen if the Raptors sign Turkoglu. They can give him that 5 yr 56 million deal only if they renounce the rights to Marion, Delfino & Parker which looking at the front page of ESPN, Turkoglu will sign with Toronto. Kind of sucks I was looking forward to having him here in Portland. I really hate this whole week waiting period for all this stuff to be official. First the story breaks that he had agreed in principle and then a few hours later he's rejected the Blazers and is signing with the Raptors.

I read that this morning on ESPN, which makes you wonder if Hedo is better than having those 4 players on your team. Still, if Orlando gets Marion in a sign and trade, their starting lineup will be just awesome.

[shadowhawk2020]

Originally Posted by dx23

I read that this morning on ESPN, which makes you wonder if Hedo is better than having those 4 players on your team. Still, if Orlando gets Marion in a sign and trade, their starting lineup will be just awesome.

I haven't heard much else on it since the initial clip I read. Most likely BS, but one can dream


Howard
Marion
Lewis
Carter
Nelson

Hell yeah!

[Spicollidriver1]

Originally Posted by fujishig

Just watched two sportscenter clips on espn.com: in the first, Bucher says that the Lakers and Artest are a terrible fit since Artest needs the ball too much and Ariza fit in well. The next day on sportscenter, he says that it makes them a tougher team. Huh?

I was reading something yesterday which I probably can't find right now because of the massive amount of stories out there. But it basically said the probably wasn't Ariza so much as his agent had him convinced he was worth a ton more then the mid exception and when they kept talking to his agent he wouldn't even listen to there offers and there was a lot of grandstanding and so LA was like f-off we Artest wants to play here anyways and that was like there ace in the hole.

[dx23]

ESPN is reporting that Rasheed Wallace has been approached by the Orlando Magics. I think they can only offer a mid-level contract.

[dx23]

ESPN is reporting that the Hawks are re-signing Mike Bibby for 3 years.

[Decker]

I still wonder if anyone will throw more money at Odom than the Lakers can afford. The way their cap structure is, they're already $10M over the luxury tax threshold paying for 11 roster players. If Odom agreed to play for $10M a year, he would be taking a $4M pay cut, but the Lakers would have to pay a whopping $20M for his service with the luxury tax. That does seem like a lot. Seriously, Kupchek, did we really need to resign Sasha last year?

[Kerborus]

I think it's funny that all the Rasheed bashers for the last 5 years are now clamoring for him on their team. Hate to tell you all, Sheed quit playing about mid-way through a season and a half ago. I've never seen such a talented player be this unmotivated to play.

Also to the dude who wondered why Billups is suddenly 'Mr. Big Shot' it's because he had a penchant for hitting BIG SHOTS in the regular season and playoffs for about 6 years.

For the whole Gordon/Villanueva thing - I am not that happy with what Detroit has done, but at the same time, I recognize this is about where the team will be for several years. Billups was traded and the team is now dismantled because they were DONE, finished, kaput as far as vying for titles. There were far more younger and better teams on the rise that would beat this aging core year in and out.

Dumars is no fool and for those who think he is, they dismiss every success that he has had since he has been in Detroit. Before Dumars arrived, NOBODY would sign in Detroit. Now we have a chance at free agents with him at the helm and let's not forget all of the successful drafts he's made. He also guided a Detroit team with no true superstar to 6 straight ECF, a feat that only 1 or 2 other teams have done in league history. The Darko pic? As others have said, this was a no brainer and it fit the core of the team at that time. I'd also point out the Darko has as many titles has Wade, Bosh and Anthony combined (that's a joke, but it is true!) Remember that it was Dumars who guided the Otis Thorpe trade into a #2 draft pick in the first place. Dumars is a great GM and I have faith in him.

Detroit, like many teams, is in transition. People should recognize that and move on...

Last but not least, the West is no better than the East - The East is clearly will the title will live for the next several years during LeBron's reign.

[fujishig]

The thinking is that Sheed will be more motivated on a team that is not "kaput," and with someone (like Garnett) to keep him in line. I mean, he's not going to be playing for the money if he signs with one of the top teams. I could say the same thing about Artest, as the number one option with McGrady and Yao out, he was terrible, but on the Lakers, he takes on a different role.

Originally Posted by Kerborus

Last but not least, the West is no better than the East - The East is clearly will the title will live for the next several years during LeBron's reign.

After the Cavs (or whatever team LeBron will be on) and the Celtics, how strong is the East? Magic are probably a little worse than they were last year, with Carter instead of Hedo and Gortat.

In the West, you have the Lakers, Spurs, Nuggets, and teams like the Jazz and Trailblazers. Dallas might pull it together, and I still hope New Orleans can do something with their young talent.

So you can have a situation like last year, where the top team is in the East, but the East is very top heavy... how'd that work out for the Cavs?

[Mr. Cinema]

Originally Posted by Kerborus

I think it's funny that all the Rasheed bashers for the last 5 years are now clamoring for him on their team. Hate to tell you all, Sheed quit playing about mid-way through a season and a half ago. I've never seen such a talented player be this unmotivated to play.

Also to the dude who wondered why Billups is suddenly 'Mr. Big Shot' it's because he had a penchant for hitting BIG SHOTS in the regular season and playoffs for about 6 years.

For the whole Gordon/Villanueva thing - I am not that happy with what Detroit has done, but at the same time, I recognize this is about where the team will be for several years. Billups was traded and the team is now dismantled because they were DONE, finished, kaput as far as vying for titles. There were far more younger and better teams on the rise that would beat this aging core year in and out.

Dumars is no fool and for those who think he is, they dismiss every success that he has had since he has been in Detroit. Before Dumars arrived, NOBODY would sign in Detroit. Now we have a chance at free agents with him at the helm and let's not forget all of the successful drafts he's made. He also guided a Detroit team with no true superstar to 6 straight ECF, a feat that only 1 or 2 other teams have done in league history. The Darko pic? As others have said, this was a no brainer and it fit the core of the team at that time. I'd also point out the Darko has as many titles has Wade, Bosh and Anthony combined (that's a joke, but it is true!) Remember that it was Dumars who guided the Otis Thorpe trade into a #2 draft pick in the first place. Dumars is a great GM and I have faith in him.

Detroit, like many teams, is in transition. People should recognize that and move on...

Last but not least, the West is no better than the East - The East is clearly will the title will live for the next several years during LeBron's reign.

I guess everyone has a different opinion on big shots. What did Billups so called big shots translate to? 1 title? Horry's big shots contributed to 7. He is Mr. Big Shot in my opinion. I always see highlights of Horry's big shots during the playoffs. I never see Billups. Big shots aren't truly big unless they translate to championships.

How many titles have the Cavs won during LeBron's reign?

[tofu]

Originally Posted by dx23

ESPN is reporting that the Hawks are re-signing Mike Bibby for 3 years.

Now that's a headscratcher. How is that going to work with Crawford and Johnson?

[dx23]

Crawford will probably come from the bench to provide the scoring punch. Also, they will most likely play Johnson at 3 and Crawford at 2 when Smith has his dry spells.

[tofu]

ESPN is reporting that Sheed accepted a 2 yr deal with the Celtics

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4307834

[dx23]

Originally Posted by tofu

ESPN is reporting that Sheed accepted a 2 yr deal with the Celtics

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4307834

The repercussions for the Celtics now is that they may lose Big Bitch and they didn't offer a contract to Leon Powe. The Bobcats should try to sign Powe.

[dx23]

Ric Bucher is reporting that Jason Kidd is staying in Dallas and is going to sign a 3 year contract with them.

[devilshalo]

Originally Posted by Decker

I still wonder if anyone will throw more money at Odom than the Lakers can afford. The way their cap structure is, they're already $10M over the luxury tax threshold paying for 11 roster players. If Odom agreed to play for $10M a year, he would be taking a $4M pay cut, but the Lakers would have to pay a whopping $20M for his service with the luxury tax. That does seem like a lot. Seriously, Kupchek, did we really need to resign Sasha last year?

Fool me once, shame on me... fool me twice, your player can go to the Houston Rockets. Thank David Lee for this. He got Bynum his 4 year $58M contract... is it any wonder why he thought he could fuck the Lakers yet again with Ariza's asking price?

[fumanstan]

Originally Posted by Kerborus

I think it's funny that all the Rasheed bashers for the last 5 years are now clamoring for him on their team. Hate to tell you all, Sheed quit playing about mid-way through a season and a half ago. I've never seen such a talented player be this unmotivated to play.

Last but not least, the West is no better than the East - The East is clearly will the title will live for the next several years during LeBron's reign.

Originally Posted by fujishig

The thinking is that Sheed will be more motivated on a team that is not "kaput," and with someone (like Garnett) to keep him in line. I mean, he's not going to be playing for the money if he signs with one of the top teams.

Agreed. I think Sheed just lost interest when it became apparent that the Pistons weren't going to win anything again. There's no way he won't be motivated on the Celtics. And of course, the obvious answer to the talented player without motivation is Vince Carter.

And I have to chuckle at the East Coast pride that hasn't gone anywhere from Kerborus

[fujishig]

Originally Posted by devilshalo

Fool me once, shame on me... fool me twice, your player can go to the Houston Rockets. Thank David Lee for this. He got Bynum his 4 year $58M contract... is it any wonder why he thought he could fuck the Lakers yet again with Ariza's asking price?

I always get confused between the agent and the (former?) Knicks player... I was thinking, how did David Lee (the player) get Bynum the contract, did he get burned by him or something in a few games?

It's weird, but I'd rather have Rasheed go to the Celts than to the Spurs. Either is bad news, though.

[Kerborus]

Originally Posted by fujishig

The thinking is that Sheed will be more motivated on a team that is not "kaput," and with someone (like Garnett) to keep him in line. I mean, he's not going to be playing for the money if he signs with one of the top teams. I could say the same thing about Artest, as the number one option with McGrady and Yao out, he was terrible, but on the Lakers, he takes on a different role.



After the Cavs (or whatever team LeBron will be on) and the Celtics, how strong is the East? Magic are probably a little worse than they were last year, with Carter instead of Hedo and Gortat.

In the West, you have the Lakers, Spurs, Nuggets, and teams like the Jazz and Trailblazers. Dallas might pull it together, and I still hope New Orleans can do something with their young talent.

So you can have a situation like last year, where the top team is in the East, but the East is very top heavy... how'd that work out for the Cavs?

Ok, so finally Vince Carter will be more motivated on the Magic right? Like he was supposed to be on the Nets? Please. Rasheed Wallace is uncontrollable and marches to his OWN drum. If he would have focused and not melted down for the last 3 years, the Pistons would have had a HUGE chance to win additional titles. He has played with guys who have held him accountable and trust me he will tune out Garnett as well. For ANY of you, to defend Rasheed Wallace after the last 5 years is hilarious. You have all done nothing but tear him down.

The truth is that even at 50% effort he just made the Celtics the best team in the league again.

To say Chauncey hasn't hit big shots is ridiculous. You obviously haven't watched his career closely and you're statement that big shots when championships is simply ridiculous. I guess Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Malone, and countless other players who never won a title have never hit a big shot. Ridiculous. I have watched Billups hit HUGE shots in the regular season to get us to the playoffs, in the playoffs to advance from round to round (including a half court shot to tie game 5 of the ECF against the Nets), in the NBA finals against the Lakers and Spurs. The guy hit big shots. What's your fucking problem with Billups? Why demean what he accomplished? You don't get the NBA MVP of the Finals without hitting a big shot.

West vs. East? Sorry, there is one good team out West, the Lakers. There are 3 teams in the East Celtics, Cavs and Magic that have a legitimate shot at the title next year. All of the rest of the playoff teams in both conference have NO SHOT. Dallas is awful, the Spurs are old (much like the Pistons were) and are not getting any younger or better, and Denver is a low post player away from contending. Utah, Houston? Please. The last 5 years looks like this:

2008 - Lakers
2007 - Celtics
2006 - Heat
2005 - Spurs
2004 - Pistons

LeBron is in the East, Shaq is in the East, Garnett is in the East and Howard is in the East. These guys will eventually win more titles. Only Kobe is in the West. I highly doubt the Lakers will repeat with the team they have put together. The East teams have vastly improved and I don't see Artest improving on what Ariza brought to the floor.

I would, on a good day, say that the West and East are about equal at this point, but the majority of the titles in the next 10 years will come from the East,

[cardsfan111]

Forgive me if this rumor has been mentioned, but Yahoo! is indicating the Pistons/Jazz are talking about a Hamilton-Boozer deal.

Link

[WallyOPD]

Originally Posted by Kerborus

For ANY of you, to defend Rasheed Wallace after the last 5 years is hilarious. You have all done nothing but tear him down.

Once again (as with previous criticisms of Hamilton and Billups), you're confusing the situation. People didn't tear down Rasheed, they tore down your hyperbole of his abilities. Just because people didn't agree that he's the best PF in the game, or the most difficult matchup, or the only PF that could have helped the Pistons win a title, doesn't mean people didn't think he was a good and valuable player.

[fumanstan]

Originally Posted by Kerborus

Ok, so finally Vince Carter will be more motivated on the Magic right? Like he was supposed to be on the Nets? Please. Rasheed Wallace is uncontrollable and marches to his OWN drum. If he would have focused and not melted down for the last 3 years, the Pistons would have had a HUGE chance to win additional titles. He has played with guys who have held him accountable and trust me he will tune out Garnett as well. For ANY of you, to defend Rasheed Wallace after the last 5 years is hilarious. You have all done nothing but tear him down.

The truth is that even at 50% effort he just made the Celtics the best team in the league again.

You're greatly overestimating Rasheed's ability if you think him alone would have flipped the Pistons into title contenders. But I guess that's nothing new. If anything, it's funny to see you tear down Rasheed Wallace after you've done nothing but defend him the last 5 years. How backwards.

West vs. East? Sorry, there is one good team out West, the Lakers. There are 3 teams in the East Celtics, Cavs and Magic that have a legitimate shot at the title next year. All of the rest of the playoff teams in both conference have NO SHOT. Dallas is awful, the Spurs are old (much like the Pistons were) and are not getting any younger or better, and Denver is a low post player away from contending. Utah, Houston? Please. The last 5 years looks like this:

2008 - Lakers
2007 - Celtics
2006 - Heat
2005 - Spurs
2004 - Pistons

LeBron is in the East, Shaq is in the East, Garnett is in the East and Howard is in the East. These guys will eventually win more titles. Only Kobe is in the West. I highly doubt the Lakers will repeat with the team they have put together. The East teams have vastly improved and I don't see Artest improving on what Ariza brought to the floor.

I would, on a good day, say that the West and East are about equal at this point, but the majority of the titles in the next 10 years will come from the East,

Your timeline is off by a year. The Spurs also won in 2007, then Celtics and Lakers. And I don't see how you can say the Spurs aren't getting any "younger or better" when they did exactly those things by adding Richard Jefferson. Why does Shaq and Garnett in the east equate to more titles, but not say... Tim Duncan?

[Kerborus]

Originally Posted by WallyOPD

Once again (as with previous criticisms of Hamilton and Billups), you're confusing the situation. People didn't tear down Rasheed, they tore down your hyperbole of his abilities. Just because people didn't agree that he's the best PF in the game, or the most difficult matchup, or the only PF that could have helped the Pistons win a title, doesn't mean people didn't think he was a good and valuable player.

And once again you assert facts that didn't happen. I never said any of the above, the only statement that I made was that he could do things that other PF's cannot do. I stand by that. In his prime with the Pistons there was no other PF that could consistently post up, fade away, hit the short jumper, the 3, pass the ball and play defense against the best PF's in the league like Rasheed Wallace. If you can name a player during that time that did all of those things as well as Rasheed did, I'd back down.

I never heard a rebuttal, just a bunch of bullshit like what you just posted above.

[Kerborus]

Originally Posted by fumanstan

You're greatly overestimating Rasheed's ability if you think him alone would have flipped the Pistons into title contenders. But I guess that's nothing new. If anything, it's funny to see you tear down Rasheed Wallace after you've done nothing but defend him the last 5 years. How backwards.



Your timeline is off by a year. The Spurs also won in 2007, then Celtics and Lakers. And I don't see how you can say the Spurs aren't getting any "younger or better" when they did exactly those things by adding Richard Jefferson. Why does Shaq and Garnett in the east equate to more titles, but not say... Tim Duncan?

Whoops. I did leave out the Spurs. Still, I see no western dominance as some assert. Looks pretty equal to me and I still say that with Kobe aging, there will be more coming out of the East barring Lebron playing in the west in the future.

Duncan and the Spurs main problem is age and injury. They have not been able to stay healthy of late. I'm not sure that's going to change with more age. Duncan, the best PF in NBA history (IMHO) needs to go play with a younger focal point should he want to win more championships.

[Kerborus]

Originally Posted by fumanstan

You're greatly overestimating Rasheed's ability if you think him alone would have flipped the Pistons into title contenders. But I guess that's nothing new. If anything, it's funny to see you tear down Rasheed Wallace after you've done nothing but defend him the last 5 years. How backwards.

Wrong. I have been very vocal about my displeasure with Wallace. While I have contended that when he is focused he is among the best PF's in the league I have always been unhappy about his meltdowns and his lack of focus, which progressed from the 'flip the switch' days in 2005 and 2006 and his 'Can't be bothered to join the huddle' days of 2007-2009.

I saw the Pistons in 2002 and 2003 without Wallace (every night) and I can tell you he was the one who put them at the elite level. His skills were the perfect blend for what the Pistons needed and he is a HUGE mismatch for other teams to contend with. The proof is in the pudding - once he came to Detroit, the Pistons ascended to the pantheon of the best teams that were ever assembled, not before.