2009 NBA offseason thread

[atari2600]

Originally Posted by fumanstan

Detroit was already no longer a perennial contender. That ship had sailed the year before, so they aren't where they are because of the trade. But again, you keep confusing the end result of Denver's success with Detroit's intentions.

i already mentioned before - what are detroits intentions?

if its just to improve on last year, then they succeed.

if its to become a great team and win a title, they fail.

[atari2600]

Originally Posted by dx23

I think that is going to change next year, when almost everyone is a free agent. Teams like Dallas, Phoenix, and others will have opportunities to bring one or 2 superstars to their teams and change the power players scenario. Still right now, the Cavs, Lakers, Celtics, Spurs and Orlando are superteams while teams like Dallas, Portland, Denver, Chicago could stun anyone in the playoffs. Denver still has a chance to reach the finals if they get good matchups in the playoffs. Utah still competitive and a team like Phoenix, Miami, or Toronto could also surprise the league.

how will dallas being able to bring in 1 or 2 superstars?

[atari2600]

Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt

Exactly.

I think the NBA is the worst with their need for big market teams. Is there any other sport where the commissioner comes out publicly and says "I want these teams to be in the championship round"?

agreed. stern knows who he wants to win it all.

[fumanstan]

Originally Posted by atari2600

i already mentioned before - what are detroits intentions?

if its just to improve on last year, then they succeed.

if its to become a great team and win a title, they fail.

The intentions were cap space, which has been mentioned a million times already which you don't seem to understand. They succeeded in that.

Now what they did with the space is another story, although again they wouldn't be much better (if at all) with Billups remaining and neither Villanueva and Gordon.

[fumanstan]

Originally Posted by atari2600

agreed. stern knows who he wants to win it all.

There isn't a commissioner in professional sports that wouldn't prefer a big market team to be in the championship game.

[Decker]

Originally Posted by fumanstan

There isn't a commissioner in professional sports that wouldn't prefer a big market team to be in the championship game.

Roger Goodell could care less who's in the Superbowl. Hell, there's not even a team in the #2 market.

[mcnabb]

Originally Posted by Daryl

The NBA is quickly becoming what people accused MLB of being a few years ago: 4-5 super teams and everyone else fooling themselves by saying they have a chance.

In some ways I agree, but the NBA has always been like this. Think back to the early/mid 80's, the Celtics, Lakers, Rockets and 76ers made every NBA final from 1980-87, and that is when the NBA really took off under Bird/Magic, and then the Jordan years really shined.

The way the NBA is if you have one superstar you can be great for years. The final four in the NBA had Kobe, Howard, Lebron, and Carmelo, as you rarely see a sleeper team make it that far. The '04 Pistons were the only team I can remember to win it all and not have that superstar, although they had a great collection of A- players like Sheed, Billips, Hamilton, and Prince.

The problem with Baseball is it is easy for big market teams to stay good because they have an advantage in free agency. Sure there have been different World Series Champs this decade as compared to other sports, but the Yanks can go out EVERY offseason and outbid everyone for Free Agents to stay competitive, whereas small market teams like the Marlins or Twins have to have a great farm system, because they lose great players to free agency or end up trading them away before their contract is it.

Football has the best system, because ANY team can be competitive, and every season you see 2-3 teams come out of nowhere and have a good year and make the playoffs. The Lions suck in the NFL because they have bad management, not because they can't compete in free agency. The Patriots are great every year, not because they can outbid everyone for Free Agents, but because they have a well run organization, and Tom Brady too The NFL has a salary cap which limits Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder from being like the Yankees, and has revenue sharing so that small market teams like the Tampa Bay Bucs can win a Superbowl in 2002, and not have to sell off EVERY player the next year like a Florida Marlins have to do in Baseball. The NFL is the perfect system, as every team has a chance.

[Mr. Cinema]

Originally Posted by jdodd

All the articles I've been reading have said they're fairly close friends.

I can't believe Laker fans are happy about this deal. The only thing I could think about while watching him play during the Lakers-Rockets series last month was "Thank god Artest isn't in a Lakers uniform." He is a liability in the triangle and he thinks (and therefore plays like) he is much more of a superstar than he ever could be.

I think he is good friends with Odom as well. Keep in mind, this guy will be on the same court as Kobe, Fisher, and Pau. And Phil will be on the sideline. That's plenty of guys around to keep him calm.

Artest is an upgrade over Ariza. And he's still only 29. He's a solid defender, and big enough as the 3 to be able to post up alot. As good as Ariza was, he's only played like that for 1 season. He fit in very well on the Lakers. Now on Houston, I'm not sure how well he'll do if he's bumped up to be a #2 option.

[dx23]

Originally Posted by atari2600

how will dallas being able to bring in 1 or 2 superstars?

I never said Dallas could bring superstars, which they could, because Cuban could care less about the luxury tax. I just said that Dallas has the power to stun on of the top teams in the playoffs next season, the same way they did this year.

[dx23]

According to ESPN, Memphis and Iverson are talking. If he signs, is going to be a great way to hold Mayo's and Gay's development.

[Mr. Cinema]

Originally Posted by dx23

According to ESPN, Memphis and Iverson are talking. If he signs, is going to be a great way to hold Mayo's and Gay's development.

Iverson, Randolph, Mayo and Gay would be an explosive offense. Hard to say what the team chemistry would be like and all 4 of those guys want the ball.

[Mr. Cinema]

Under the Insider page, ESPN had a rumor link stating Kidd to the Knicks.

[cdollaz]

Although the Rockets don't look to have much of a chance next year, I'm cool with the Artest/Ariza swap. I was pumped when Artest came last year, but my opinion had changed by the end of the season. He is a horrible outside shooter, but that didn't keep him from throwing up wild shots any time he wanted. Also, I think he is kinda overrated as a defender. I think he is a good team defender, but not so much as a one-on-one stopper. He regularly got torched last year. As far as behavior, he was fine all year, so hopefully he has settled down, I just didn't think he helped the team much overall. I'd rather have a younger player with upside than someone who has topped out.

[dx23]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema

Iverson, Randolph, Mayo and Gay would be an explosive offense. Hard to say what the team chemistry would be like and all 4 of those guys want the ball.

That is why I don't like Iverson going there. The team already has scorers. Hopefully Conley's game has mature to the point he can organize the offense for everyone involved.

[fumanstan]

Originally Posted by Decker

Roger Goodell could care less who's in the Superbowl. Hell, there's not even a team in the #2 market.

Sure he does, you don't think he'd love it if the Cowboys were back in the Super Bowl and that there wouldn't be a boost, albeit small compared to other sports, if they were there? And there's certainly a push to get LA a team.

[fujishig]

Football is a little different, though. There is only one championship game, and I think the Superbowl pretty much gets ratings no matter who's playing. On the other hand,for most other leagues where the final is a series of some sort, I'd think bigger market teams would be preferred to keep ratings up. Baseball, Hockey, etc.

While I think I still would have preferred Ariza to stay, especially given that the main difference was length of contract, I do like the "trade" for a few reasons:
1) All indications were that Artest would pick either Los Angeles, or, if he couldn't go there, Cleveland. Since Ariza was apparently not going to go to Cleveland, I'm fine with getting Artest as a replacement and not letting the Cavs have either.
2) The contract fits in perfectly with the other contracts they currently have (Kobe and Gasol, and players like Sasha have about the same length). Now in a few years when it's Walton and Bynum and who knows what else, we'll see what Buss does.
3) As mentioned before, the Lakers have been burned in the past by giving big contracts to guys that played well for them in the playoffs, only to see that be a mistake. Not that I necessarily think Ariza is going to be a bust now, but Artest is a safer option.

The key is still re-signing Odom, though.

[Quake1028]

Originally Posted by atari2600

i already mentioned before - what are detroits intentions?

if its just to improve on last year, then they succeed.

if its to become a great team and win a title, they fail.

You are failing to realize that they weren't going to be a great team and win a title even with Chauncey. So, they got younger in the trade, which is all they could really ask for, and got 2 good players. They weren't making it much/any further last year than they did even if they never traded Chauncey. So stop acting like they were going to win a title last year or this year with the team intact.

[Quake1028]

Originally Posted by mcnabb

Football has the best system, because ANY team can be competitive, and every season you see 2-3 teams come out of nowhere and have a good year and make the playoffs. The Lions suck in the NFL because they have bad management, not because they can't compete in free agency. The Patriots are great every year, not because they can outbid everyone for Free Agents, but because they have a well run organization, and Tom Brady too The NFL has a salary cap which limits Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder from being like the Yankees, and has revenue sharing so that small market teams like the Tampa Bay Bucs can win a Superbowl in 2002, and not have to sell off EVERY player the next year like a Florida Marlins have to do in Baseball. The NFL is the perfect system, as every team has a chance.

Baseball has revenue sharing as well. And, calling Tampa Bay a small market team is a bit ridiculous. According to this list Tampa is the 19th biggest TV market in the country, and according to this one Tampa-St. Pete has the 13th most TV households in the country.

[Deftones]

Originally Posted by fumanstan

Sure he does, you don't think he'd love it if the Cowboys were back in the Super Bowl and that there wouldn't be a boost, albeit small compared to other sports, if they were there? And there's certainly a push to get LA a team.

I call bullshit. The Cardinals and Pittsburgh was the second highest rated Superbowl ever. Sure, Pittsburgh is a fairly big team in the NFL with their history, but nobody gave a fuck about the Cardinals. This Superbowl outdrew the one with the Patriots/Giants. If that isn't proof that the Superbowl is the exception to the rule that big market teams need to be in to draw fans, I don't know what is.

[atari2600]

Originally Posted by fumanstan

The intentions were cap space, which has been mentioned a million times already which you don't seem to understand. They succeeded in that.

lol your reading comprehension isnt too good then. i clearly understood that. i know exactly why they did the deal.

if that was their goal (just cap space), then they win - good for them! too bad it doesnt mean much in terms of what REALLY matters..the standings. im pretty sure they would rather have wins than cap space.

Now what they did with the space is another story, although again they wouldn't be much better (if at all) with Billups remaining and neither Villanueva and Gordon.

they tried to rebuild and this current team is what they are left with. i doubt most piston fans will be happy with the results for the next 3-4 years.

[atari2600]

Originally Posted by dx23

I never said Dallas could bring superstars, which they could, because Cuban could care less about the luxury tax. I just said that Dallas has the power to stun on of the top teams in the playoffs next season, the same way they did this year.

id like to see how the mavs COULD bring in two superstars...even without caring about the lux tax. there are rules to signing players and also this thing called the salary cap. the only way they could get some big names is by dealing their own good players...which cuban wont do.

[atari2600]

Originally Posted by Quake1028

You are failing to realize that they weren't going to be a great team and win a title even with Chauncey. So, they got younger in the trade, which is all they could really ask for, and got 2 good players. They weren't making it much/any further last year than they did even if they never traded Chauncey. So stop acting like they were going to win a title last year or this year with the team intact.

fair enough but by signing these guys they basically have locked themselves into a good but not great team status. i guess this is what joe dumars wanted all along with the billups-iverson deal.

[dx23]

Originally Posted by atari2600

id like to see how the mavs COULD bring in two superstars...even without caring about the lux tax. there are rules to signing players and also this thing called the salary cap. the only way they could get some big names is by dealing their own good players...which cuban wont do.

They are willing to deal Josh Howard.

[El Scorcho]

sportscenter reporting Turkoglu has agreed in principal with the Blazers

I like having him here, but hopefully we didn't bid against ourselves and overpay for him

[Decker]

He should make the Blazers better. Nice move.

I wonder how much damage they could have done on the free agent market if they weren't paying for Darius Miles. Yet another reason I love the Grizzlies' General Manager Chris Wallace.