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Old 04-18-08, 08:54 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zekeburger1979
Steve McNair retired today after 13 seasons. Does he make the Pro Football Hall of Fame? I say yes. 30,000 yards, 60% completion rate, 174 touchdowns. Co-MVP in 2003 and a Super Bowl appearance. Played through injuries and played consistently throughout his career, only having 1 really bad year, last year unfortunately.

I don't think he'll get in on the 1st ballot, but definitely within the 1st 10 years of eligibility.
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Old 04-18-08, 11:09 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
Put McNair on those Cowboys teams in the 1990s, and he'd be a HOFamer just like Aikman.

Loved watching him play. A true gamer and leader.
disagree strongly with your first statement, agree strongly with your second.

Good player, tough and fun to watch. But he isn't a HoF.

Aikman isn't as bad as some seem to think he was (nor is he as good as others think); he may have been lucky to be on a great team, but he was not a "system" qb who only was great because of his team.
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Old 04-20-08, 04:58 PM   #128
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No on McNair. He didn't exactly play through injuries, as he missed a lot of time.

I guess it's the tough gamer vs. injury proned argument.

Anyway, no on the HOF.
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Old 04-21-08, 06:11 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Dog
Put McNair on those Cowboys teams in the 1990s, and he'd be a HOFamer just like Aikman.

Loved watching him play. A true gamer and leader.
You could do that with anyone, but the bottom line is the Cowboys haven't won a playoff game since Aikman retired.

McNair is not a Hall of Famer, although still a great QB. For me the HOF is not something you have to think about with any player, it should be a no brainer, and I had to think about McNair for a couple of seconds. I still believe there are too many B+ guys who get in these HOF's every year, and it kinda demeans the voting every year.
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Old 12-05-08, 09:50 PM   #130
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Greg Maddux is expected to announce his retirement on Monday. Does he make the Hall of Fame? You bet. 1st ballot Hall of Famer IMO. This is coming from a guy who hates the Atlanta Braves.

Only pitcher ever to win 4 straight Cy Youngs.
Only pitcher to win 15 or more games in 17 straight seasons.
Winningest pitcher of the 1990's: 176 wins.
2nd most career wins of the live ball era (1920-present): 355 (behind Warren Spahn's 363).
18 Gold Gloves.
3,371 strikeouts.
Finished in the Top 10 in wins 18 times.
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Old 12-05-08, 11:18 PM   #131
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Maddux's postseason numbers aint so good but obviously he's a HoF lock.
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Old 12-05-08, 11:34 PM   #132
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Yeah, there shouldn't even be a question about Maddux.
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Old 12-05-08, 11:54 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by zekeburger1979 View Post
Only pitcher ever to win 4 straight Cy Youngs.
Maddux is as big a lock as it is possible to be, but Randy Johnson also won 4 straight Cy Youngs.
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Old 12-06-08, 11:31 AM   #134
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Maddux is one of those guys who is such a lock that any moronic voter who leaves him off of their ballot should immediately have their voting privileges revoked permanently.
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Old 12-06-08, 11:39 AM   #135
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^ There must be a handful of guys who refuse to vote for any first time candidate. If you check the voting percentages through the years, there's been many slam dunk candidates left off a ballot.

You would think Maddux has a chance to have the highest percentage ever. His overall numbers are staggering - wins, strikeouts, Cy Young Awards, Gold Gloves...add to that the fact that he's always been well-liked by the media, writers, etc.
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Old 12-06-08, 12:00 PM   #136
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yea.. but how many homeruns has he hit

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Old 12-07-08, 06:15 PM   #137
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Maddux is as big a lock as it is possible to be, but Randy Johnson also won 4 straight Cy Youngs.
You're right about that. I missed the part where the article that I read stated he was the first one to do that. Doh!
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Old 12-09-08, 12:06 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by zekeburger1979 View Post
Greg Maddux
With Clemens reputation tarnished, Maddux may be remembered as the best pitcher of his generation. The only other one close I can think of would be Johnson, and I'd put Maddux ahead in that race.

So yeah, he's resoundingly first-ballot.
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Old 12-09-08, 12:26 AM   #139
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Maddux is such a lock that they should just skip the delay and have the induction ceremony tomorrow.
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Old 12-09-08, 01:26 AM   #140
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With Clemens reputation tarnished, Maddux may be remembered as the best pitcher of his generation. The only other one close I can think of would be Johnson, and I'd put Maddux ahead in that race.

So yeah, he's resoundingly first-ballot.
I would without a doubt take maddux over Johnson any day, and I what I liked about him over Clemens was he wasn't a douche like clemens was sometimes
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Old 12-09-08, 09:44 AM   #141
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I hope they name and embarrass whomever leaves Maddux off the 1st ballot.
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Old 12-09-08, 09:50 AM   #142
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I hope they name and embarrass whomever leaves Maddux off the 1st ballot.
The problem is those d-bags want to be named so they can feel important, even if the world thinks they are morans.
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Old 12-09-08, 11:04 AM   #143
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You would think Maddux has a chance to have the highest percentage ever. His overall numbers are staggering - wins, strikeouts, Cy Young Awards, Gold Gloves...add to that the fact that he's always been well-liked by the media, writers, etc.
Is Nolan Ryan still the HoF percentage leader? I don't think Maddux will finish ahead of him, but he's certainly the greatest pitcher of his generation. I enjoyed watching him work more than anybody else.
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Old 12-09-08, 11:10 AM   #144
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Is Nolan Ryan still the HoF percentage leader? I don't think Maddux will finish ahead of him, but he's certainly the greatest pitcher of his generation. I enjoyed watching him work more than anybody else.
I think Tom Seaver is the percentage leader, not Ryan.
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Old 12-09-08, 11:32 AM   #145
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I think Tom Seaver is the percentage leader, not Ryan.
Yep. Seaver first, Ryan second.

Seaver's prime years were a bit ahead of my time (as a fan), but based on his numbers and what I know of his career, I have no problem with him being the leader, at this point. Ryan deserves to be up there too, percentagewise.

It's really hard to imagine anyone beating Seaver's HOF percentage-- even Maddux, but I think he'll be close (as I said in another thread, I think Maddux will get 97%, +/- 1%)

ETA: HOF percentages here

Last edited by Dave7393; 12-09-08 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 12-09-08, 12:02 PM   #146
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I would without a doubt take maddux over Johnson any day, and I what I liked about him over Clemens was he wasn't a douche like clemens was sometimes
So will Clemens make it in?

I think Randy's a lock down the road as well... how about someone like Pedro?
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Old 12-09-08, 01:03 PM   #147
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I think clemens gets in maybe not first ballot and not because of his numbers, and Johnson probably 1st, and pedro I really don't know I have a irrational hatred for pedro
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Old 12-09-08, 01:16 PM   #148
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The thing that always impressed me about Maddux more than Randy Johnson, Pedro, or Clemens is that he performed at a high level without having a devastating fastball or sick nasty curve/slider like the other guys had. He didn't throw hard and instead got batters out by outthinking them -- both with location and with pitch type. How many batters have we seen in the last 20 years walking back to the dugout almost laughing because an 85 mph fastball that was coming inside and that they had given up on was the pitch that rang them up?

Easily my favorite pitcher of my lifetime.
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Old 12-09-08, 01:25 PM   #149
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how about someone like Pedro?
In, and it isn't close at all.
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Old 12-09-08, 01:35 PM   #150
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Pedro and Randy are first ballot locks.

And Scorcho, I agree, though it would be a mistake to say that Maddux was just location and pitch type. His pitches had a fuck ton of movement, which is part of why he was so much fun to watch.
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