Play a game with me. Hall of Famer or not?

[Calculon]

Originally Posted by Quake1028

Along with Mark Prior, Grant Hill, and Bo Jackson, yes?

Grant Hill might make it anyway when you include his college career.

[Nick Danger]

I'm not a big sports fan, so school me here.

Should steroid use disqualify someone from the HOF if he played in the steroid era? I imagine that for every bulked up monster like McGuire, there were a dozen pitchers who juiced just a little so they could play more innings and recover faster. Base hitters for a little extra speed. Outfielders so they could throw directly to home plate. And so on.

To put it another way, people don't ask if players from the 50s used benzedrine, or if players from the 70s used cocaine. And we know those drugs were common in their times.

[davidh777]

Originally Posted by Nick Danger

I'm not a big sports fan, so school me here.

Should steroid use disqualify someone from the HOF if he played in the steroid era? I imagine that for every bulked up monster like McGuire, there were a dozen pitchers who juiced just a little so they could play more innings and recover faster. Base hitters for a little extra speed. Outfielders so they could throw directly to home plate. And so on.

To put it another way, people don't ask if players from the 50s used benzedrine, or if players from the 70s used cocaine. And we know those drugs were common in their times.

That's the thing. There are no hard and fast rules so each voter is left to decide whether a player used or not and whether that costs him a vote. Some people will disqualify people who are proven or likely users, while some disregard it on the thought that everyone was using so it's not fair to single someone out.

The low totals for McGwire and Palmeiro are a good indicator of how voters are trending, but it will be more interesting when we get guys like Bonds and Clemens, who people feel had built up their resumes to be eligible of induction even before they allegedly started using.

[fujishig]

So with the retirement, Tomlinson is a lock when he's eligible, right? Seau too?

[LurkerDan]

yes and yes.

[davidh777]

Roger Clemens is in good shape now that he's been cleared

[LurkerDan]

Omar Vizquel? This blog says no but the author believes he will get in eventually: http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...e-hall-of-fame

I say "hell no!" and think he will not get in or even very close.

[BrewCrew]

Maybe by the veterans's committee or whatever is around 25 years from now but not by the baseball writers. There is already going to be a shitload of players that are going to be hanging around the ballot for 15 years and will never get 75% of the vote because they used or were accused of using performance enhancing drugs. Vizquel will be another one of those 15 year guys but without the performance enhancing label attached.

[davidh777]

I was surprised to see Vizquel ended with 2,877 hits. Sure, it was over 24 seasons, but it'd be an interesting case if he had made it to 3K to go with those GGs. Great and classy player (the Mariners shouldn't have traded him, not until Alex Rodriguez was closer), but not HOF to me.

[Quake1028]

Not HoF to me, either.

[will travel]

What about Alex Karras?
I think he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articl..._Of_Fame/22454

[wm lopez]

Originally Posted by mgbfan

Of that list, only Smoltz. Like an earlier poster said, if Jack Morris isn't in, most of those guys fall short (the whole postseason thing didn't work for Morris, why should it work for Schilling?).

Smoltz and all 90's pitchers got that outside the plate called strike from the ump. I believe the umps new hitters were juicing up and to try and make it even they gave pitcher's off the plate pitch that was a BALL a STRIKE.
No 90's player is HALL OF FAME except Frank Thomas and maybe a few more.
No Pedro Martinez.

[wm lopez]

Originally Posted by Nick Danger

I'm not a big sports fan, so school me here.

Should steroid use disqualify someone from the HOF if he played in the steroid era? I imagine that for every bulked up monster like McGuire, there were a dozen pitchers who juiced just a little so they could play more innings and recover faster. Base hitters for a little extra speed. Outfielders so they could throw directly to home plate. And so on.

To put it another way, people don't ask if players from the 50s used benzedrine, or if players from the 70s used cocaine. And we know those drugs were common in their times.

Dave Parker started really good in the 70's and tailed off in the 80's cause of drugs. So coke doesn't improve your stats.

[zekeburger1979]

Does Jason Hanson have a chance?

495 for 601 on field goals and 665 for 673 on extra points. The Lions were 123-213 during his 21 seasons.

Jan Stenerud is the only HOF inductee who was just a kicker.

[Decker]

No chance. The only kicker with a shot of joining Stenerud is Adam Viniteri

[Obi-Wan Jabroni]

If Hanson has kicked in any games that mattered, maybe.

[LurkerDan]

I guess Bernard King was elected to the NBA HoF. I loved him as a Knicks fan. But always thought he was part of the hall of the very good.

[JumpCutz]

Ray Guy should be in the Hall of Fame. Greatest NFL punter of all time.

[bootsy]

Originally Posted by LurkerDan

I guess Bernard King was elected to the NBA HoF. I loved him as a Knicks fan. But always thought he was part of the hall of the very good.

Basketball HOF is a lot more open than MLB and NFL so King getting in I have no problem. King was a great scorer on some truly mediocre teams. King belongs in.

[JumpCutz]

Agree on Bernard King. He was incredible and bootsy got it right.

[bootsy]

Originally Posted by JumpCutz

Agree on Bernard King. He was incredible and bootsy got it right.

II just remember King on those Knick teams in the early-mid 80s and he could score at will no matter who guarded him. It's just too bad he never really had that stage in the playoffs very much.

[LurkerDan]

Forgot about King's college career (which is part of the basketball HoF consideration). Three time all american, three time SEC player of the year, that helps his candidacy a lot.

[chess]

Not exactly on topic, but seeing Shaq's number retirement made me wonder...how is Jamaal Wilkes' number retired but not George Mikan's?

They have the same number of titles (or at least NBA titles, Mikan had the last BAA title with the Lakers before they merged and won the first ever NBA title). Wilkes had Kareem and Magic for his titles with the Lakers and Mikan was the dominant heart of his Lakers teams. Wilkes was a 3-time all star and a few other accolades, but Mikan had more in a fraction of his career, won 3 scoring titles and was so dominant they changed the rules of the game. They introduced the shot clock when teams started passing the ball around to keep it out of his hands, and they widened the lane because he was so dominant in the paint.

They are both HOF, obviously, but I can't figure out why Mikan's number isn't up in Staples instead of just his name.

[mphtrilogy]

finally B king!

[fujishig]

Originally Posted by chess

Not exactly on topic, but seeing Shaq's number retirement made me wonder...how is Jamaal Wilkes' number retired but not George Mikan's?

They have the same number of titles (or at least NBA titles, Mikan had the last BAA title with the Lakers before they merged and won the first ever NBA title). Wilkes had Kareem and Magic for his titles with the Lakers and Mikan was the dominant heart of his Lakers teams. Wilkes was a 3-time all star and a few other accolades, but Mikan had more in a fraction of his career, won 3 scoring titles and was so dominant they changed the rules of the game. They introduced the shot clock when teams started passing the ball around to keep it out of his hands, and they widened the lane because he was so dominant in the paint.

They are both HOF, obviously, but I can't figure out why Mikan's number isn't up in Staples instead of just his name.

I think Mikan and the other Minneapolis Laker greats have a banner, but not a jersey up there, I always assumed that it was somehow because it was before the LA era? Doesn't he have a statue in the T'wolves stadium, wearing a Lakers jersey?

I think we talked about this before, but it's a long thread... assuming Grant Hill retires this year, with his college years he's a HOF'er, right, even despite the injury?