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Old 06-08-07, 02:11 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkside
KG is a must.

The other guys are strong possibilities. They have a full career with the kind of stats they have now and they are in.

I don't think titles are required when you talk about a guy being a Hall of Famer.

Where I have a problem is people trying to argue that Barkley and Malone are better all time power forwards than a guy with 3 titles like Tim Duncan. For one Duncan dominated both of those guys (especially with his defensive stats, did Barkley ever play defense?) when he came into the league, but most importantly he took multiple teams all the way to rings and that has to count on his side.
I don't think there should be any question that Tim Duncan is the greatest power forward of all time; i imagine it's a matter of finishing out his career, since he's only in the middle of his career. I haven't really seen anyone argue that Barkley is better though.
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Old 06-08-07, 02:11 PM   #27
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If Paul Pierce makes it, they might as well close the doors.
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Old 06-08-07, 02:15 PM   #28
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As for other guys, I think it's going to be similar to baseball, where some stats don't mean quite as much as they used to and people start looking to how they impact or made an impression on the league and the game. Just like 500 homeruns isn't much of a big deal anymore, a swingman that averages 20-25 points a game isn't exactly anything special either. It'll take playoff performances, championships, All-NBA teams, and even name recognition to put these guys over the top. Even Tracy McGrady, who I value more then the other 3 guys mentioned, is a stretch for me right now.
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Old 06-08-07, 02:35 PM   #29
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KG makes it, not just for his impressive stats, but for his historical impact on the game (for better or for worse). He was one of the first players to go straight from high school to the NBA (although when Kobe did it, it was slightly more influential, being that Garnett would have missed his freshman year due to prop-48, while Kobe was eligible to play his first year).

In looking at his stats, I hadn't realized that he lead the NBA in defensive rebounds for each of the last 5 years.

Anyway, if he retired today, he's definitely in. The other three (Allen, Carter and Pierce) are not at this point.
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Old 06-08-07, 03:05 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fumanstan
I don't think there should be any question that Tim Duncan is the greatest power forward of all time; i imagine it's a matter of finishing out his career, since he's only in the middle of his career. I haven't really seen anyone argue that Barkley is better though.
I don't think he's as great as Bob Pettit.
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Old 06-08-07, 03:08 PM   #31
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Old 06-08-07, 03:19 PM   #32
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I think KG makes it in. In the NBA, if we discounted all the players who didn't win championships, that'd be a lot of guys, mainly because of the many dynasties they've had.

What about:

Grant Hill

He's made a comeback in recent years, though he's still not the player he once was. Still worthy of the Hall?

Only current locks for first ballot HOF if they retired today that I can think of that are still playing:
Allen Iverson
Kobe Bryant (I know he gets a lot of hate, but can you deny him first ballot?)
Shaq
Tim Duncan

and I think Steve Nash deserves it as well, though some may disagree.
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Old 06-08-07, 03:43 PM   #33
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I can't believe someone actually mentioned Robert Horry.

Talk about championships painting a rose colored image of someone.
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Old 06-08-07, 04:15 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fujishig
I think KG makes it in. In the NBA, if we discounted all the players who didn't win championships, that'd be a lot of guys, mainly because of the many dynasties they've had.

What about:

Grant Hill

He's made a comeback in recent years, though he's still not the player he once was. Still worthy of the Hall?

Only current locks for first ballot HOF if they retired today that I can think of that are still playing:
Allen Iverson
Kobe Bryant (I know he gets a lot of hate, but can you deny him first ballot?)
Shaq
Tim Duncan

and I think Steve Nash deserves it as well, though some may disagree.
Grant Hill no, Nash yes.

Iverson is not a definite first ballot, but is a hall of famer.
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Old 06-08-07, 04:25 PM   #35
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Grant Hill is a definite no. Steve Nash is a yes. Jason Kidd should be there as much as Iverson.
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Old 06-08-07, 04:28 PM   #36
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Day 2

I am ok with asking about other players, but me personally will add a new one each day with a bio.

Ken Griffey jr
18 years in the league

576 Home Runs
2466 hits
1642 rbi's
.290 avg
.556 slugging
05 Comeback player of the year
mvp award
9 gold gloves
10 all star selections

I like griffey a lot but sometimes this arguement goes towards if only he wasn't hurt, and I think that should be a small factor.
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Old 06-08-07, 04:30 PM   #37
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Griffey gets in.
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Old 06-08-07, 04:31 PM   #38
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Griffey is a lock.
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Old 06-08-07, 05:55 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicollidriver1
I am ok with asking about other players, but me personally will add a new one each day with a bio.

Ken Griffey jr
18 years in the league

576 Home Runs
2466 hits
1642 rbi's
.290 avg
.556 slugging
05 Comeback player of the year
mvp award
9 gold gloves
10 all star selections

I like griffey a lot but sometimes this arguement goes towards if only he wasn't hurt, and I think that should be a small factor.
One of the 2 best players of the 90's (with Bonds). Neither of these guys you have posted are anywhere close to not being in. Griffey is one of the safest locks ever. He still might end up with 630+ HR's with all the injuries he dealt with. Even if he never played another game, he's a first ballot lock.
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Old 06-08-07, 05:56 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fumanstan
I don't think there should be any question that Tim Duncan is the greatest power forward of all time; i imagine it's a matter of finishing out his career, since he's only in the middle of his career. I haven't really seen anyone argue that Barkley is better though.
Agreed. He's the best power forward of all-time, and will be considered that by a good margin by the time he's done IMO.
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Old 06-08-07, 05:57 PM   #41
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Gary Payton

In?
1st Ballot?
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Old 06-08-07, 05:59 PM   #42
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Almost a guaranteed lock, and probably first ballot, but I wouldn't say he's a surefire lock for that part of it.
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Old 06-08-07, 06:04 PM   #43
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I could see Payton in, but not first ballot.

Griffey's in, and I'll take Arod as well.

For Basketball, while searching, I found this:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../hof_prob.html

Interesting, bold are the players not yet eligible (kinda forgot Jordan's not in yet). Carter is pretty high (above Ewing) and Payton is above Stockton. And Darius Miles has a .0001 chance of getting in, which makes me doubt this whole list...

edit: Nash is also way too low on this list, so I guess stats aren't everything...
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Old 06-08-07, 06:11 PM   #44
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How about:

Elton Brand (Too early to tell?, 7 years experience)
-Has averaged 20.3 points, 10.2 rebounds for career
-All-Star only twice
-All-NBA team (2nd) only once
-Co-ROY

Has a 20/10 guy never made the hall (assuming he keeps up his stats for the rest of his career)?

Last edited by Big Dave; 06-08-07 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 06-08-07, 06:17 PM   #45
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Does Griffey go in as a Mariner or a Red?

Most of his crazy numbers came from his time in Seattle, bec. all of his injuries happened after going to Cincinnati. But Cincinnati is his home town, he grew up in the locker room with his Dad, and he *asked* to be traded there.

If baseball decides, I say Seattle.
If Griffey decides, I say Cincinnati.
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Old 06-08-07, 06:21 PM   #46
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Well the Hall decides so it will be as a Mariner.
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Old 06-08-07, 06:22 PM   #47
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How about Gary Sheffield?
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Old 06-08-07, 06:26 PM   #48
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Sammy Sosa (assuming he hits 600 this year)?
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Old 06-08-07, 06:43 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fujishig
I could see Payton in, but not first ballot.

Griffey's in, and I'll take Arod as well.

For Basketball, while searching, I found this:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../hof_prob.html

Interesting, bold are the players not yet eligible (kinda forgot Jordan's not in yet). Carter is pretty high (above Ewing) and Payton is above Stockton. And Darius Miles has a .0001 chance of getting in, which makes me doubt this whole list...

edit: Nash is also way too low on this list, so I guess stats aren't everything...
I've argued Nash's status before in other threads; but yeah, Nash is going to place low in any statistics category because he his numbers for most of his career have only been above-average. He's only been a star for 3 years in Phoenix.
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Old 06-08-07, 06:50 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave
How about:

Elton Brand (Too early to tell?, 7 years experience)
-Has averaged 20.3 points, 10.2 rebounds for career
-All-Star only twice
-All-NBA team (2nd) only once
-Co-ROY

Has a 20/10 guy never made the hall (assuming he keeps up his stats for the rest of his career)?
I dunno, depends on whether you think Webber is going to make it, and if Brand's Clippers rebound from the terrible season they just had.
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