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#1 | |
![]() Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Where homophobes don't get slut sauce
Posts: 28,280
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Racial bias in NBA refereeing
I don't watch enough basketball these days to comment on that aspect of the study, but I thought this was pretty interesting anyway. This is IMO one of the unintended consequences of the best-seller Freakonomics - economists don't really want to study economics any more. Give them a large dataset of anything and they go nuts.
![]() The abstract: Quote:
A link to the article (.pdf format): http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages...race-study.pdf What does everyone think?
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"Fifth Element may be as dumb and artless as Johnny Mnemonic, but since a frenchman made it it must be ART!" -Pants "...I think it's a low blow to draw attention to wendersfan's drunken state. " - dork"Just because their victims are still alive doesn't mean they didn't commit murder." - grundle "You concentrate on the sad wanna be hooliganism and let us worry about the actual soccer." - rocketsauce (final score: Columbus 2-Chicago 1) |
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#2 |
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 11,975
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Aren't all NBA teams predominantly black?
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#3 |
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DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 19,831
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This is all bullshit. There is favorable treatment, but it is typically towards star players. For the most part the refs baby the stars and they get away with things the lower tier players never could.
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#4 |
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DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,283
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Too funny.
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#5 | |
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DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: In My Own Little World
Posts: 19,359
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Quote:
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#6 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 468
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Even though I loathe Fox, this is a pretty good critique of the study...
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6767806?MSNHPHMA TJS |
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#7 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 632
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LOL, funny as hell. My guess is it might have something to do with there's perhaps (and this is being nice) ten white stars in the NBA? OF COURSE there's more fouls on black players! How can it be any different?
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#8 | |
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DVD Talk Hero
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 33,749
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Quote:
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#9 |
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DVD Talk Godfather
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Arizona
Posts: 59,455
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Aren't there more white refs than black ones?
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John Henson: McDonald's has dumped Kobe Bryant as their spokesperson and have replaced him with Yao Ming. Apparently McDonald's prefers Yao because he is a bigger international star, and he doesn't rape so much. "You are everything that's wrong with this forum".---SleepyW |
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#10 | |
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DVD Talk Hero
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 33,749
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Quote:
There's a lot more to take in to consideration, like superstars getting more calls, superstars being predominantly black, playing time split between teams that supposedly have more black players then white, and whatever. |
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#11 |
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DVD Talk Godfather
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Arizona
Posts: 59,455
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Yeah, seems awfully weak statistically when they didn't take into account any variables.
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John Henson: McDonald's has dumped Kobe Bryant as their spokesperson and have replaced him with Yao Ming. Apparently McDonald's prefers Yao because he is a bigger international star, and he doesn't rape so much. "You are everything that's wrong with this forum".---SleepyW |
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#12 |
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DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,621
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this is by far the worst conducted study ever. these schools should be embarassed and I hope it wasnt done on company time.
oooo you looked at BOX SCORES! BOX SCORES! and you jump to a conclusion like this!?!?! They didn't even watch games, know the situation in which the foul was called, or even know which ref was calling the fouls listed in the box score. Me thinks this study was just done to get their names in the papers. |
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#13 | |
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DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Deep behind enemy lines...NYC!
Posts: 11,150
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Quote:
You know, I definitely picked the wrong field. I should become an Economist and look into things that have nothing to do with my field and only study stuff I'm interested in. Then I can look for and take correlative data and create causal links between them.
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GO REDSOX!!! "Fighting is the best thing a man can have in his soul."-Renzo Gracie |
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#14 |
![]() Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Where homophobes don't get slut sauce
Posts: 28,280
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Has anyone who is critical of the study actually read it? Not a summary, not an op-ed about it, but the actual study (all 40+ pages of it.)
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"Fifth Element may be as dumb and artless as Johnny Mnemonic, but since a frenchman made it it must be ART!" -Pants "...I think it's a low blow to draw attention to wendersfan's drunken state. " - dork"Just because their victims are still alive doesn't mean they didn't commit murder." - grundle "You concentrate on the sad wanna be hooliganism and let us worry about the actual soccer." - rocketsauce (final score: Columbus 2-Chicago 1) |
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#15 | |
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DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: In My Own Little World
Posts: 19,359
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#16 | |
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DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 11,537
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ESPN pointed out that 2 of the top 3 players with the most PFs were white.
John Hollinger also had this bit, which obviously makes a lot of sense. Quote:
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#17 | |
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Retired
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 27,389
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Quote:
i.e. studies of crime on official police data, etc. Observational studies on secondary data can still be valid. |
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#18 |
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DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nowheresville
Posts: 1,976
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Were they counting black on black fouls? Were they counting fouls on Dwayne Wade? If they were counting fouls on Wade that could explain the high count.
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#19 | |
![]() Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Where homophobes don't get slut sauce
Posts: 28,280
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Quote:
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"Fifth Element may be as dumb and artless as Johnny Mnemonic, but since a frenchman made it it must be ART!" -Pants "...I think it's a low blow to draw attention to wendersfan's drunken state. " - dork"Just because their victims are still alive doesn't mean they didn't commit murder." - grundle "You concentrate on the sad wanna be hooliganism and let us worry about the actual soccer." - rocketsauce (final score: Columbus 2-Chicago 1) |
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#20 | |
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DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Columbia, MD, USA
Posts: 10,961
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Quote:
Now I can't speak to the study itself as I have not read it. It may be good or bad. But there doesn't seem to be anything inherently wrong with just looking at the data from box scores.
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I can't believe I ate the whole thing |
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#21 | |
![]() Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Where homophobes don't get slut sauce
Posts: 28,280
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Quote:
__________________
"Fifth Element may be as dumb and artless as Johnny Mnemonic, but since a frenchman made it it must be ART!" -Pants "...I think it's a low blow to draw attention to wendersfan's drunken state. " - dork"Just because their victims are still alive doesn't mean they didn't commit murder." - grundle "You concentrate on the sad wanna be hooliganism and let us worry about the actual soccer." - rocketsauce (final score: Columbus 2-Chicago 1) |
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#22 |
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DVD Talk Hero
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 35,881
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I haven't had time to read the entire study yet, but the one thing that sticks out as curious is that they do not know which ref called the foul. Is it possible that when there are two white refs and one black ref that the black guy calls more fouls on black players all of a sudden? Glancing through it, I didn't see such potentials addressed. The study seems interesting, and I do plan to read it when I have the time, but there are so many factors involved here and so many unknowns that I'm curious to see how they tried to account for it all. Chiefly, I'd submit that in general, black players have a different style of play from white players (in the modern game, the majority of white players who play long enough to be relevant in this study came from foreign countries). Are we looking at race-on-race bias or race-on-style bias? One thing that stuck me as interesting is that it appears white crews generally call fewer fouls on everyone, just at a lower rate for white players.
das
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Dragon*Con 2004 - 2005 - Lost in Hawaii - DVD Reviews You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion. -- Harlan Ellison quoting Gustave Flaubert |
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#23 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 468
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Quote:
Did the FoxNews Sports writer misrepresent the study? That'd be like the 1st time that's ever happened on Fox .anyhoo, I will read it, just seemed like a poorly structured study. I would not be surprised in the least if the headline is true, I just assumed that a sportswriter wouldn't misrepresent a study. Stupid assumption on my part, I guess. Hafta be skeptical of the weatherman's political bias next. TJS |
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#24 |
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DVD Talk Hero
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 25,826
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All the media outlets are all pouncing on the survey calling it ridiculous, etc. Once people can admit that EVERYONE has a little bit of racial bias in them I think we can start moving forward as a country. Until then keep on playing the denial game.
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#25 | |
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DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,621
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Quote:
That doesnt make the survey valid. It still is completely ridiculous. They are looking at BOX SCORES. Box scores that dont even say what ref called what foul. So how on earth can the basis of the survey be that white refs call more fouls on blacks and black refs call more fouls on white when they DONT even know what ref is calling this foul and what ref called that foul. That Sir, is the definition of ridiculous. |
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