NASCAR Truck race -- perfect example of whats wrong with NASCAR

ENDContra · 02-19-05, 12:34 AM

Tonight the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series kicked off their season with the Craftsman 250 at Daytona. For those of you that missed it, a caution came out right after the leaders passed the start/finish line on the final lap. At the time of the caution, Jimmy Spencer and Bobby Hamilton are side-by-side for the lead. It took NASCAR a full 10 minutes to decide who won the race. Michael Waltrip, who was commentating, actually said, "if they got the button (that freezes the field) pushed while the wreck was happening...". Who wins a race shouldnt depend on how quick some jackhole official is at pushing a button, but thats exactly what happened tonight. The outcome needs to be decided on the track, but thats not happening. Whats even more bothersome is that it seems like NO ONE is bothered by it.

Waltrip also said "Whatever NASCAR calls, it wont be a mistake"...what a sellout.

Tandem · 02-19-05, 06:08 AM

I don't know what the problem is, it's the same in all forms of auto racing - from F1 all the way down to the little short-tracks. The caution starts at the instant the official calls the caution whether by turning on a light or waving a flag. Cautions are not automatic, the official has to determine many factors before declaring the caution. Safety is the primary concern.

It's rare that a pass for the lead is made on the final lap at the exact moment the caution is called. It happened in an indy-car race a few years ago and the same type delay occurred while officials scrambled to determine who was actually out in front.

On any other lap but the final one, the positions are determined electronically - by who was leading when they went over the last timing loop before the caution. If you made a pass after crossing a timing loop but before the caution - too bad, you go back to the position you were at the timing loop. Which is fine, it takes too long to sort things out visually and one position is not that big of a deal in a long race.

It's only on the last lap that officials will take the time to go over the videos to see if there is irrefutable evidence that one driver or another is ahead at the exact moment the caution is called. In this case there was - it was shown that Bobby Hamilton was ahead by half a car length at the exact time the yellow light came on. Jimmy Spencer was leading at the last timing loop (probably at the start/finish line) so he was shown electronically as being in the lead. Had it been any other lap but the final one, Jimmy would have been scored in the lead with Bobby following.

There have been instances in past where one driver has been celebrating a victory only to have another driver declared the winner sometime later. NASCAR wanted to avoid that scenario and kudos to them for getting it right before allowing the victory ceremony to proceed.

As much as I wanted Jimmy Spencer to win, I have to agree that Bobby Hamilton was the winner of the race.

Tandem · 02-19-05, 06:45 AM

ENDContra, if your post is referring to the time when they used to "race back to the line", yeah, I miss those days, too. But it you've ever seen the video of Dale Jarrett sitting helplessly on the front stretch (at Phoenix?) while cars were passing by at full speed trying to get to the finish line you'd know why the rule had to be changed. Other forms of racing already had the freeze the field at the yellow rule and NASCAR was the lone holdout.

If the wreck had happened in the back of the pack on the backstretch while the leaders were going through the final turn they might have let it end under green but no way they could have done that when there were multiple cars wrecking near the start/finish line.

That was an exciting race, though, the trucks always put on a good show. It's rare to see a vehicle flip over in the air and land on its wheels and drive away, let alone two in one race.

astrochimp · 02-19-05, 09:46 AM

The incident with Jarrett was at New Hampshire and no one hit him anyway but he sure did go on and on about it thus changing the rule and now we have a horrible ending like we saw last night.

Ask Paul Tracy what he thinks of the "freezing the field" rule

Stu 17 · 02-19-05, 11:13 AM

freezing the field is a great rule for safety. i think it kind of hurts the racing. but i understand it.

just not on the last lap.

mgbfan · 02-19-05, 12:08 PM

It's just one of those raw deals, no different than an official deciding the last play of an NFL game in the replay booth or NBA officials determining the end of the game by reviewing whether a last-second shot was off in time. In any form of auto racing, there are gonna be cautions, and you have to have a system to deal with them. It's a shame if it comes into play on the final lap, but that's just how it has to be. You gotta have rules, and sometimes, they just get in the way a little.

ENDContra · 02-20-05, 01:37 AM

I have no problem with the freezing the field rule (although Tandem, thats not entirely true, there are plenty of places where the field still races back to the line or they go back to the last completed lap). My point is a race should never be determined that way. The Craftsman Truck Series started out using the rule that the race will always end with at least a green-white-checker...so l the field should have been frozen and the track should have been cleaned up so they could race 2 more laps. Safety is very important, but you cant just thow the race out the window. And just to clarify, I wasnt someone who hated when races just finished under caution...thats just how it worked then. But since the caution rules changed, there have been some downright shitty races. They added green-white-check to all series now, yet they dont use it.

Maybe Im just a bitter race fan who is just sick of NASCARs constant rule changes and how it constantly turns its back on history and tradition in favor of more money, and everyone agrees with their decisions just like sheep...sure racing at tracks like Rockingham and Darlington is exciting, but we can get twice as many people around this track in Fontana...who cares that it will be 4 hours of sheer boredom? The racing has gotten downright boring and on most weekends too and is a perfect way to fall asleep on the couch. The only thing that keeps me coming back are the drivers....but drivers get old and retire.

weargle · 02-21-05, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrochimp

The incident with Jarrett was at New Hampshire and no one hit him anyway but he sure did go on and on about it thus changing the rule and now we have a horrible ending like we saw last night.

Ask Paul Tracy what he thinks of the "freezing the field" rule

Paul Tracy raced open wheel cars. He should have really looked at past events, especially what happened to Zanardi, and rethink any thoughts contrary. Zanardi's accident happened under full green, but if something happened under a yellow flag, that would be simply unforgivable.

Jarrett didn't need anybody T-boning him to "go on and on about it".

What in the holy fuck do you think that these drivers need to endure? Constant injuries and/or death over a simple trophy?

02-19-05, 12:34 AM	#1
ENDContra DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,739	NASCAR Truck race -- perfect example of whats wrong with NASCAR Tonight the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series kicked off their season with the Craftsman 250 at Daytona. For those of you that missed it, a caution came out right after the leaders passed the start/finish line on the final lap. At the time of the caution, Jimmy Spencer and Bobby Hamilton are side-by-side for the lead. It took NASCAR a full 10 minutes to decide who won the race. Michael Waltrip, who was commentating, actually said, "if they got the button (that freezes the field) pushed while the wreck was happening...". Who wins a race shouldnt depend on how quick some jackhole official is at pushing a button, but thats exactly what happened tonight. The outcome needs to be decided on the track, but thats not happening. Whats even more bothersome is that it seems like NO ONE is bothered by it. Waltrip also said "Whatever NASCAR calls, it wont be a mistake"...what a sellout. __________________ My INCREDIBLY TOO BIG for a college student DVD Collection

02-20-05, 01:37 AM	#7
ENDContra DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,739	I have no problem with the freezing the field rule (although Tandem, thats not entirely true, there are plenty of places where the field still races back to the line or they go back to the last completed lap). My point is a race should never be determined that way. The Craftsman Truck Series started out using the rule that the race will always end with at least a green-white-checker...so l the field should have been frozen and the track should have been cleaned up so they could race 2 more laps. Safety is very important, but you cant just thow the race out the window. And just to clarify, I wasnt someone who hated when races just finished under caution...thats just how it worked then. But since the caution rules changed, there have been some downright shitty races. They added green-white-check to all series now, yet they dont use it. Maybe Im just a bitter race fan who is just sick of NASCARs constant rule changes and how it constantly turns its back on history and tradition in favor of more money, and everyone agrees with their decisions just like sheep...sure racing at tracks like Rockingham and Darlington is exciting, but we can get twice as many people around this track in Fontana...who cares that it will be 4 hours of sheer boredom? The racing has gotten downright boring and on most weekends too and is a perfect way to fall asleep on the couch. The only thing that keeps me coming back are the drivers....but drivers get old and retire. __________________ My INCREDIBLY TOO BIG for a college student DVD Collection

02-19-05, 06:08 AM	#2
Tandem DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 1,226	I don't know what the problem is, it's the same in all forms of auto racing - from F1 all the way down to the little short-tracks. The caution starts at the instant the official calls the caution whether by turning on a light or waving a flag. Cautions are not automatic, the official has to determine many factors before declaring the caution. Safety is the primary concern. It's rare that a pass for the lead is made on the final lap at the exact moment the caution is called. It happened in an indy-car race a few years ago and the same type delay occurred while officials scrambled to determine who was actually out in front. On any other lap but the final one, the positions are determined electronically - by who was leading when they went over the last timing loop before the caution. If you made a pass after crossing a timing loop but before the caution - too bad, you go back to the position you were at the timing loop. Which is fine, it takes too long to sort things out visually and one position is not that big of a deal in a long race. It's only on the last lap that officials will take the time to go over the videos to see if there is irrefutable evidence that one driver or another is ahead at the exact moment the caution is called. In this case there was - it was shown that Bobby Hamilton was ahead by half a car length at the exact time the yellow light came on. Jimmy Spencer was leading at the last timing loop (probably at the start/finish line) so he was shown electronically as being in the lead. Had it been any other lap but the final one, Jimmy would have been scored in the lead with Bobby following. There have been instances in past where one driver has been celebrating a victory only to have another driver declared the winner sometime later. NASCAR wanted to avoid that scenario and kudos to them for getting it right before allowing the victory ceremony to proceed. As much as I wanted Jimmy Spencer to win, I have to agree that Bobby Hamilton was the winner of the race.

02-19-05, 06:45 AM	#3
Tandem DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 1,226	ENDContra, if your post is referring to the time when they used to "race back to the line", yeah, I miss those days, too. But it you've ever seen the video of Dale Jarrett sitting helplessly on the front stretch (at Phoenix?) while cars were passing by at full speed trying to get to the finish line you'd know why the rule had to be changed. Other forms of racing already had the freeze the field at the yellow rule and NASCAR was the lone holdout. If the wreck had happened in the back of the pack on the backstretch while the leaders were going through the final turn they might have let it end under green but no way they could have done that when there were multiple cars wrecking near the start/finish line. That was an exciting race, though, the trucks always put on a good show. It's rare to see a vehicle flip over in the air and land on its wheels and drive away, let alone two in one race.

02-19-05, 09:46 AM	#4
astrochimp DVD Talk Hall of Fame Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 9,534	The incident with Jarrett was at New Hampshire and no one hit him anyway but he sure did go on and on about it thus changing the rule and now we have a horrible ending like we saw last night. Ask Paul Tracy what he thinks of the "freezing the field" rule

02-19-05, 11:13 AM	#5
Stu 17 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 675	freezing the field is a great rule for safety. i think it kind of hurts the racing. but i understand it. just not on the last lap.

02-19-05, 12:08 PM	#6
mgbfan DVD Talk Ultimate Edition Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,293	It's just one of those raw deals, no different than an official deciding the last play of an NFL game in the replay booth or NBA officials determining the end of the game by reviewing whether a last-second shot was off in time. In any form of auto racing, there are gonna be cautions, and you have to have a system to deal with them. It's a shame if it comes into play on the final lap, but that's just how it has to be. You gotta have rules, and sometimes, they just get in the way a little.