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Old 11-15-04, 03:15 PM   #26
twikoff
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well deserved .. this one was never in doubt, and no sane arguement could be made against it

of course.. it should have been at least #8
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Old 11-15-04, 03:16 PM   #27
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Quote:
MJKTool

Is that an MLB definition or a das Monkey definition?
Just a casual understanding of what the word "Valuable" means.

das
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Old 11-15-04, 03:16 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJKTool
I'm sure the Dodgers would disagree with you.
They are more than welcome to. But just like thinking Darren Dreifort was a great long-term option, they'd be wrong.
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Old 11-15-04, 03:18 PM   #29
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Like i said in the other thread, glad they got the voting right. No matter how much i hate Bonds because of being a steroid using asshole on the Giants, he's still the MVP. Nice to see the voters put Beltre 2nd in the voting. I never understood how people could think Pujols/Rolen/Edmonds could be above Beltre.
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Old 11-15-04, 03:18 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJKTool
I'm sure the Dodgers would disagree with you.
most realistic dodger fans knew that beltre deserved #2 in the mvp voting.. which he got

there really was no question... this one wasnt even up for debate
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Old 11-15-04, 03:18 PM   #31
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nice timing fumanstan
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Old 11-15-04, 03:31 PM   #32
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btw... isnt the award for best offensive stats, the Hank Aaron award?

has that been given out yet?
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Old 11-15-04, 03:33 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff
btw... isnt the award for best offensive stats, the Hank Aaron award?

has that been given out yet?

Yep. Manny and Barry won.






I like the picture. Barry is all dressed up and it looks like Manny just rolled out of bed and threw on whatever was on his floor.
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Old 11-15-04, 03:45 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff

there really was no question... this one wasnt even up for debate
Yeah. Two players who were pretty comparable stat wise. Who both were damn valuable to their team. The only difference is one of the two actually got their teams to the Playoff's. Yeah no debate there!

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Old 11-15-04, 04:00 PM   #35
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Old 11-15-04, 04:01 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJKTool
Yeah. Two players who were pretty comparable stat wise. Who both were damn valuable to their team. The only difference is one of the two actually got their teams to the Playoff's. Yeah no debate there!
Comparable stat wise? What stats are you looking at?

Plus, why do you draw the line at making the playoffs? Why not the LCS or the World Series?

The only argument for Beltre is that he made $5 million this year compared to $18 million for Bonds. In that sense, Beltre is more valuable (more bang for the buck).
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Old 11-15-04, 04:06 PM   #37
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The stats on MLB.com. Not fantasy projected stats.
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Old 11-15-04, 04:25 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJKTool
The stats on MLB.com. Not fantasy projected stats.
So what part is comparable?

Bonds has:
Higher batting average (.028 higher)
Higher slugging pct (.183 higher)
Higher OBP (.221 higher)
More walks (179 more, or more than 4x as many)
Fewer strikeouts (46 fewer, or less than 1/2)
More runs (25 more)

He is behind slightly in HR (by only 3) and RBI (by 20) when you look at raw numbers. Look at it per AB, then his numbers are 35-50% better than those of Beltre. Besides, all the other stats more than make up for this.

Plus, as many already noted, you have to also look at who is more valuable to his team. You have to look at beyond stats and look at how the team would be without the player.
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Old 11-15-04, 04:29 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff
well deserved .. this one was never in doubt, and no sane arguement could be made against it

of course.. it should have been at least #8
Should be #9, but I agree .
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Old 11-15-04, 04:31 PM   #40
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Beltre has:
More games played
More hits
More doubles
More HR
More RBI
More SB
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Old 11-15-04, 04:33 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJKTool
The stats on MLB.com. Not fantasy projected stats.



so your arguement is that if there is another player in the general REALM of bonds.. then that person should win it, because you dont like barry.. correct?

Im not sure what your view of comparable stats are.. but Bonds had a deciding factor almost all the way accross the board..

The giants were in the race until the next to last game.. the dodgers got to play a couple more games and couldnt do squat in the playoffs.. that doesnt help beltre's arguement any

this is almost as stupid of an arguement as the guy that wanted to tell us how bad brett favre is
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Old 11-15-04, 04:34 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJKTool
Beltre has:
More games played
More hits
More doubles
More HR
More RBI
More SB
more help from his teammates

you are listing stats that beltre got because players on his team actually got on base.. and because pitchers arent scared shitless to pictch to beltre.. compare their at bats.
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Old 11-15-04, 04:36 PM   #43
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Barry got 75% of the first place votes
out of the other 25%.. its safe to assume at least half of them were just anti barry and the other half were morans.. which group do you fall in?
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Old 11-15-04, 04:37 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJKTool
The stats on MLB.com. Not fantasy projected stats.
Pretty myopic, don't you think?

Barry blew away the competition in Batting Average, Slugging Percentage, On Base Percentage, OPS, Intentional Walks, Total Walks. He was slightly behind Pujols and Beltre in aggregate categories -- categories such as HR and RBI that are completely dependent on pitchers giving the batter the chance to hit the ball in the first place.

Yet you seem to think a player should be penalized for this?
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Old 11-15-04, 04:39 PM   #45
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Btw:

At you mentioning Beltre had more SB than Barry. 7 to 6.
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Old 11-15-04, 04:39 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJKTool
Beltre has:
More games played
More hits
More doubles
More HR
More RBI
More SB
When you're looking at the whole season, what's more important? Number of hits or the batting average? The number of 2B & HR or the slugging percentage?

SB? He was successful 7 or 9 times. Bonds, 6 of 7 times. Which is better?

You can't simply look at raw numbers. You have to look them based on the AB they got.
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Old 11-15-04, 04:40 PM   #47
twikoff
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Quote:
Originally posted by El Scorcho
Pretty myopic, don't you think?

Barry blew away the competition in Batting Average, Slugging Percentage, On Base Percentage, OPS, Intentional Walks, Total Walks. He was slightly behind Pujols and Beltre in aggregate categories -- categories such as HR and RBI that are completely dependent on pitchers giving the batter the chance to hit the ball in the first place.

Yet you seem to think a player should be penalized for this?
i dont think he just blew away the competition.. i think he also destroyed the all time major league on base percentage and walk total.
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Old 11-15-04, 04:40 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff
and the other half were morans.. which group do you fall in?
Do you mean moron?
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Old 11-15-04, 04:41 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by El Scorcho
Yet you seem to think a player should be penalized for this?
No. Apparently players should be penalized for being on the same team as Dustin Hermanson and rewarded for getting their asses handed to them in the NLDS.
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Old 11-15-04, 04:42 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by namja
When you're looking at the whole season, what's more important? Number of hits or the batting average? What's more important, the number of 2B & HR or the slugging percentage?

SB? He was successful 7 or 9 times. Bonds, 6 of 7 times. Which is better?

You can't simply look at raw numbers. You have to look them based on the AB they got.
I bet he thinks that Pete Rose was a better hitter than Ted Williams.
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