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Old 12-07-03, 10:43 AM   #1
Preacher
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Poll Bowls, BCS and a playoff. How does it look today?

We have a front row seat to Poll Bowls versus BCS versus a playoff. All thanks to last night. So what wins now?

Playoff of 2, 4, 6, 8, 16 ....
Well, many of you want it and I'm not gonna deal with it now, except for a few facts and questons. The points have been stated very thoroughly by many members. The simple fact is that there are really only 3 teams everyone can agree on. OU, LSU, USC. Although I'm a Michigan fan, those 2 losses with USC and LSU running the board so convincingly proves the point.

What Conferences from Division 1 do we choose.
eg.
ACC
SEC
Big Ten
Big 12
PAC 10
Big East

Leaves 2 spots. And I'm not completelty sold on The Big East. Certainly not from the standpoint of depth of Conference.
We got Mountain and WAC. Sometimes they do produce a major player in the National picture. But often they do not. What about Independant Notre Dame? Do we go wildcard and poll winners for the last 2 spots if we are going with an 8 team playoff? That's a thinker. I'd like some more input on this.

BCS...
So they are gonna do what now? Just ignore the game last night? Chalk it up to a team just looking ahead? Now try and convince everyone that they are supposed to ignore the asshat game that OU may involved in? We should all expect them to be left out. No matter the reason. They did not lose. They got trampled. Rose Bowl these guys.
And then understand that they also may have lost because everyone and their mother told these guys the game did not mean anything and they were a lock for the Final. Attn: twikoff If you are gonna make them play more games and instigate another round, then they have to live with the result. They played and they lost. This format is just giving teams who have already proved their worth another chance to stumble.
eg. Georgia is now 10-3...WTF!. Add in a Bowl game and they will have played 14 games this year. To all of you look back on National Championship teams of the past. They played 11 games.

Poll Bowls...
Ahh, the matchups that coulda been. Ponder these selections a bit and remember sitting down on New Years to watch an atrocious amount of college ball. Where all the games could effect another.

*Actual matchups are subject to correction, my memory and flogging by other members. Includes the best possible matchups, historical rivals, Conference matchups, local fan insanity and some damn good ball. Stats as of last night and the only final answer we would have would be a consensus from the Polls.

In order of best starting time.

Cotton Bowl (Dallas, TX) - #6 Texas vs. #13 Kansas State
Fiesta Bowl (Phoenix, AZ) - #5 Ohio State vs. #10 Miami
Orange Bowl (Miami, FL) - #8 Florida State vs. #9 Tennessee
Rose Bowl (Pasadena, CA) - #2 USC vs. #4 Michigan
Sugar Bowl (New Orleans, LA) - #3 LSU vs #1 OSU

The greatness of sport is what could be. The more you attempt to define something the more it slips out of your hands.

If I look to New Years and these games. What a day. All in one day.
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Old 12-07-03, 11:44 AM   #2
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Re: Poll Bowls, BCS and a playoff. How does it look today?

Quote:
Originally posted by Preacher
Poll Bowls...
Ahh, the matchups that coulda been. Ponder these selections a bit and remember sitting down on New Years to watch an atrocious amount of college ball. Where all the games could effect another.
All the games could effect another, when did this ever happen?
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Old 12-07-03, 11:46 AM   #3
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Re: Re: Poll Bowls, BCS and a playoff. How does it look today?

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Originally posted by Jericho
All the games could effect another, when did this ever happen?
Not sure what you mean by the question? To what are you referring?
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Old 12-07-03, 11:59 AM   #4
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if you want to see the arguement
you dont need a new thread
just go read the last 30 pages were of ncaa football threads over the past couple weeks

or should we start all over just because a couple people missed it?
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Old 12-07-03, 12:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff
if you want to see the arguement
you dont need a new thread
just go read the last 30 pages were of ncaa football threads over the past couple weeks

or should we start all over just because a couple people missed it?
Why should all the NCAA football be discussed in one thread? I keep scanning it and do not see this dealt with. Not directly. Certainly not from the aftereffects of last night.

If you see this all summed up in the past 30+ pages I do not. Plus specific conversations are better than ALL of college football covered in just one place. Half the time twifoff that I try to follow a conversation, it gets left out and passed along. Plus I started the vote on what system was the best choice right now, and did not feel it was completely covered so I consider this Part II.

And I do not understand your argument concerning some issues and would prefer to hear those particular ones here in relation to what I said above. And I do not believe that was I am asking or saying has already been covered. IMO.

And I have read almost all of the postings in the football threads.
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Old 12-07-03, 12:54 PM   #6
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Re: Re: Re: Poll Bowls, BCS and a playoff. How does it look today?

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Originally posted by Preacher
Not sure what you mean by the question? To what are you referring?
You said watching bowl games where the outcome of one game effects the others. And I'm asking when this happened. cAuse I never remember it being like that, either now or before.
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Old 12-07-03, 01:16 PM   #7
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Poll Bowls, BCS and a playoff. How does it look today?

Quote:
Originally posted by Jericho
You said watching bowl games where the outcome of one game effects the others. And I'm asking when this happened. cAuse I never remember it being like that, either now or before.
The only time I can remember that is 1984 (where Miami going into the Orange Bowl knew that the teams above them had all lost, so if they beat Nebraska they were the champs)

And this would be one of the very, very few years where the old "poll bowl" system would work. Just take last year. Miami would've been thrown into the Orange Bowl and Ohio State would've been in the Rose. So you wouldn't have had the two best teams playing each other. Which would've solved... nothing.
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Old 12-07-03, 01:31 PM   #8
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We have to wait til 5:30 Eastern to find out the BCS rankings?
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Old 12-07-03, 01:36 PM   #9
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When you get a whole day of Bowl games, pre-BCS (1998?), the outcome of one game can effect the final standings. In the example I gave above, we build towards the later games. And how high a team finishes will be affected by how the others turn out.

They used to all build toward one day. And they were all played that day. It was amazing how those games worked together so well. It was great drama and theatre. With the setup now and the National Championship played on another day it has taken away from the whole day.
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Old 12-07-03, 01:40 PM   #10
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poll Bowls, BCS and a playoff. How does it look today?

Quote:
Originally posted by WildcatLH
The only time I can remember that is 1984 (where Miami going into the Orange Bowl knew that the teams above them had all lost, so if they beat Nebraska they were the champs)

And this would be one of the very, very few years where the old "poll bowl" system would work. Just take last year. Miami would've been thrown into the Orange Bowl and Ohio State would've been in the Rose. So you wouldn't have had the two best teams playing each other. Which would've solved... nothing.
Your point is very well made, but does winning the whole thing become all you play for? And coming into many Bowl days were the chance that if certain things happened maybe... Gotta love the maybe in sports. The great part about the old system was to see how high your team could finish. You win your Conference and win the Bowl game and that was a great season. rarely does that also allow the chance for the title. But it is the chance that is so much fun.
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Old 12-07-03, 01:52 PM   #11
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I'd rather have the BCS than the old days of AP and Coaches(UPI) polls. At least with the BCS they take into account strength of schedule. Remember the 80s when Nebraska and Oklahoma were highly ranked every year though they never played anyone except each other? Now you have teams scheduling tough games, out of conference games, to bolster their schedule strength. It makes for much more interesting football.
The BCS isn't perfect and I'd rather it end in a playoff but it is much better than having sportswriters decide it all.
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Old 12-07-03, 02:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tsar Chasm
We have to wait til 5:30 Eastern to find out the BCS rankings?
Those new fangled computer thingys just aren't that fast yet.
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Old 12-07-03, 02:29 PM   #13
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poll Bowls, BCS and a playoff. How does it look today?

Quote:
Originally posted by Preacher
Your point is very well made, but does winning the whole thing become all you play for? And coming into many Bowl days were the chance that if certain things happened maybe... Gotta love the maybe in sports. The great part about the old system was to see how high your team could finish. You win your Conference and win the Bowl game and that was a great season. rarely does that also allow the chance for the title. But it is the chance that is so much fun.
But college football has been crowning a "national champion" since forever. If you're going to do that, you want to see the best teams on the field together. In most years, with all of the Bowl tie-ins, that wasn't going to happen. That's why you saw so many split titles. What if Georgia Tech and Colorado (were they the two) had been able to play in Bowl games against each other after the 1990 season? Or Miami and Washington in 1991? It just creates a headache. That's the same reason why the next BCS contract is likely to include a 4 team playoff -- people, in general, don't like the uncertainty.
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Old 12-07-03, 02:37 PM   #14
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The problem with computers is that .... well, humans created the formula. So it's not entirely objective. For example, it is the humans the write the algorithm to say whether every game counts the same or the late games count more than the early games; or whether a 50 point blow out means more than a 1 point victory in 4OT; or how much weight to put on wins, losses, SoS, etc. We can go all "objective" but still ... in the end, it's human input.
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Old 12-07-03, 03:05 PM   #15
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everyone can agree that a 4 game playoff system would be more than enough to decide.. so give it a break

go to 8 games, and you lose luster of the regular season

go to 16 teams, and you destroy the regular season

funny namja... you werent a part of any ncaa threads all season.. yet now that the season is over.. you come in and lead the way in whining about the system.. there are reasons that hardcore college football fans dont want the regular season cheapened.. and if you dont understand it, its not worth trying to explain
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Old 12-07-03, 03:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Preacher
Why should all the NCAA football be discussed in one thread? I keep scanning it and do not see this dealt with. Not directly. Certainly not from the aftereffects of last night.

If you see this all summed up in the past 30+ pages I do not. Plus specific conversations are better than ALL of college football covered in just one place. Half the time twifoff that I try to follow a conversation, it gets left out and passed along. Plus I started the vote on what system was the best choice right now, and did not feel it was completely covered so I consider this Part II.

And I do not understand your argument concerning some issues and would prefer to hear those particular ones here in relation to what I said above. And I do not believe that was I am asking or saying has already been covered. IMO.

And I have read almost all of the postings in the football threads.
missed this post..
ok, the reason why i was short.. is because its frustrating having the exact same arguements in 10 different threads at the same time.. every open ncaa thread is having the same discussions right now..

if you have particular questions about my arguements.. bring them up here and Ill address them individually.. I dont expect everyone to agree with me, just to respect my opinions.

as many know by now.. college football is by far my favorite sport.. the next in line is a distant distant second.. and the intensity of every game and every week is what makes it so great to me.. in my opinion, this gets cheapened severly if the big teams know they can lose two games during the regular season and still make the playoffs..

pete carroll summed it up best when he explained why he isnt upset at the idea that usc may end up in the rose instead of the sugar.. because they lost a game, they slipped up, let their guard down.. and lost a game, and he cant blame anyone except himself and his team.. its not the human voters fault that his team didnt bother to show up for the cal game.

Im for a 4 game playoff system.. because I still think that forces every team to feel that they MUST go undefeated.. because if they have 1 loss, they may get mixed into a group of 1 loss teams and not make the playoffs.. so that doesnt lessen the intensity at all.. and I believe this system is getting really close to happening.. maybe the games from yesterday even push towards this happening starting in 2006 with the new bcs contract.
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Old 12-07-03, 03:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Cow
Those new fangled computer thingys just aren't that fast yet.
i think the computers are normally pretty quick to get their rankings..
and usatoday/espn secretary poll is normally suppose to be turned in by 9am est

but you normally dont see the AP poll until somewhere around 5pm est.... I would assume they are waiting on the AP poll before they can release the BCS standings
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Old 12-07-03, 03:57 PM   #18
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The BCS standings are done. The AP rankings have been out since noon. The BCS and Bowl administrators are currently having a conference call to decide who goes where.

However, they're holding back the BCS standings because their agreement with ABC allows ABC to have the special and to be the first ones to officially release them as part of their BCS Selection Show.
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Old 12-07-03, 03:59 PM   #19
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ah, I missed seeing the AP rankings
early this week
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Old 12-07-03, 04:42 PM   #20
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As few mentioned already ... in a small way, I'll be glad if USC plays Michigan in the Rose and crushes them. Then they'll get 1/2 the national championship. But the BCS was set up so that this will not happen (I'm sure in the BCS' eyes, only the Sugar Bowl winner is the true champion and USC will and can never be the true champion even if USC beats Michigan in the Rose ).

Just another step closer to playoffs. Even a 4 team playoffs is fine by me.
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Old 12-07-03, 04:44 PM   #21
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in the past..
before the bcs

in the AP.. their national champ was the real one
the coaches poll.. their national champ was the real one
they didnt always agree

people still recognize the AP.. and since the NCAA award a championship, its really fuzzy..
although, I wouldnt be completely shocked if the AP was pressured to have OU jump USC if they beat LSU in the Sugar.
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Old 12-07-03, 04:47 PM   #22
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The thing to remember about a 4-team playoff is that there hasn't been a situation to emerge in modern college football history that could not be adequately solved with 4 teams. The closest we had was 1993 where it could be argued that the 2 1-loss teams were better than the 3 undefeated teams, but even then, WVU was a complete fraud as everyone knew, and Auburn was on probation for cheating, so even in that crazy year, 4 teams was more than enough.

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Old 12-07-03, 11:41 PM   #23
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Hey Preacher....I believe it is #1 USC vs #4 Michigan....in the National Championship West....
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Old 12-07-03, 11:47 PM   #24
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its only a share of the NC if USC wins

right now, there are 3 teams with a shot
and 1 team that has a shot at spending another off season whining about how their team choked in the games they should have won
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Old 12-08-03, 12:40 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff
everyone can agree that a 4 game playoff system would be more than enough to decide.. so give it a break

go to 8 games, and you lose luster of the regular season

go to 16 teams, and you destroy the regular season

funny namja... you werent a part of any ncaa threads all season.. yet now that the season is over.. you come in and lead the way in whining about the system.. there are reasons that hardcore college football fans dont want the regular season cheapened.. and if you dont understand it, its not worth trying to explain
i am not sure 4 teams is enough. who do u choose for the fourth spot? michigan, osu, tennessee, miami, fsu? i dont think going to 8, loses all the luster of the regular season. it works w/ more than 8 in division IAA, II, and III. there is probably no sport, imo at least, more exciting than college football b/c of how important each game is in the regular season. but the bsc has again created a ton of controversy. if there is a split national championship this year, it still never fixes the original problem w/the old system, except that it gets right 1 or 2 times (could fsu and vatech happened under the old system?).

oh and it is nice to see auburn play a role in this whole national title thing. too bad it isnt how i wanted/expected.
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