The "curse" / Philadelphia sports (LONG!)
 

Here's my take on what's wrong with Philadelphia sports in recent years:

Since the Philadelphia Eagles disastrous loss on Sunday, many have been wondering what went wrong. This was a team which had built upon its 2001 season ending loss in the NFC championship game at St. Louis by winning 12 regular season games in 2002, securing home field throughout the playoffs, and hosting the NFC championship game in the last football game ever at Veterans stadium. It was thought that this was a team of destiny, which went 5-1 even after the loss of its star QB Donovan McNabb. And even after losing its last regular season game to the Giants, they still held onto home field advantage. After the Eagles beat Atlanta rather easily in the previous week, everyone who’s name wasn’t Jimmy Kimmel thought there was no was Tampa Bay could beat the Eagles. No way they could go into frigid Philadelphia and win in the cold. They couldn’t do it the last 2 years in the playoffs. They couldn’t do it in October. This was the last game in Veterans Stadium. No way they could beat the Eagles in the crazy atmosphere of the Vet. No way they could deny the Eagles a trip to the SuperBowl.

Tampa Bay 27 Philadelphia 10

So, who’s to blame? Was Andy Reid out-coached by John “Chucky” Gruden? Was Donovan McNabb still rusty from missing 7 weeks due to the broken ankle? Was it that the defense was overrated? Was it the inability to adjust to the no huddle offense? Was it overconfidence? Was it the refs?

I argue that it was a curse. Not unlike “the curse of the Bambino” that was put on the Boston Red Sox for selling Babe Ruth to the New York Yankees in 1920. The Red Sox have not won a championship since. However, the curse I am speaking of is much larger. It is city-wide. It doesn’t just torment just one team in the Boston area (the Celtics, Bruins, and even the 2001 New England Patriots have enjoyed championships since 1920.) It torments the whole sports community in the city of Philadelphia.

It is known as the curse of William Penn.

It all started in Philadelphia back in the late 19th century. Originally, the plan was to make Philadelphia’s City Hall the tallest structure in the world. And on top of this building would be a 37 foot statue (the tallest statue to adorn the top of any building in the world, even to this day) of William Penn, the founder of Philadelphia. However, by the time it was built and William Penn’s statue was placed in the top of City Hall in 1894, the Eiffel Towel stood the tallest at 986 feet. Even so, Philadelphia’s City Hall, at a total of 548 feet, is a magnificent structure. To this day, many observers feel that City Hall with the statue of William Penn overlooking the city is the defining characteristic of Philadelphia, and not the Liberty Bell.

Being so proud of the architectural achievement, the leaders of Philadelphia made a “gentleman’s agreement” that no other structure would be built higher than City Hall. Specifically, no such structure would be built any higher than the hat on William Penn’s head. This “gentleman’s agreement” lasted until 1986, when the economics of the Reagan years pushed the corporate envelope to the point where the powers that be decided that Philadelphia needed more office buildings…with many offices…with many floors…which would make them very tall. So, 1 Liberty Place was built in 1987. And that was later followed by 2 Liberty Place in 1990. 1 Liberty Place stood at 945 feet, almost 400 feet taller than City Hall and William Penn.

So, what does a man who lived in the 17th and 18th centuries and his statue atop City Hall have to with the current status of Philadelphia sports?

Well, since the “gentleman’s agreement” that no Philadelphia structure would be built taller than the hat on William Penn’s head ended in 1987 with the dedication of 1 Liberty Place, no Philadelphia professional sports team has won a championship in those 16 years since. Silly superstitious coincidence? Let’s see, shall we?….

Since 1900, there have been 16 Philadelphia championships in the four major sports (baseball, football, basketball, and hockey). None of them since 1987.

Let’s break this down a bit more…

In baseball, the Philadelphia Athletics had some very good years. In fact, they are the most successful professional sports franchise the city of Philadelphia has ever had, with a total of 6 championships. However, they moved on. The Philadelphia Phillies have had only 1 world championship, in 1980, but have had 8 first place finishes since 1900. Only one of them came after 1987. You say that’s a long time? Agreed. But in the 16 years prior to 1987, they had 5 first place finishes. They only had 1 first place finish in the 16 years since. Maybe you blame Mitch Williams for not winning the World Series in 1993? I know who I blame.

In football, the Philadelphia Eagles have a total of 3 championships since their inception in 1933, the last being in 1960. That’s well before 1987 you say? Well let’s look at the success of the franchise before 1987 and since 1987. Before 1987 the Eagles had 5 1st place finishes and 3 world championships, a 60% success rate. However, all 5 1st place finishes were league championships, including a 1980 NFC championship win over the Cowboys. After 1987, the Eagles have had 3 first place finishes and a total of 9 trips to the playoffs, and not ONCE in those 16 years have they even achieved an NFC championship, let alone a super bowl victory. Not McNabb’s fault, nor Randall’s, nor the fault of the Chicago fog, I don’t believe. It might have been someone who was looking down Broad Street on Sunday from over 500 feet up.

In basketball, the Philadelphia Warriors and Philadelphia 76ers franchises have combined for a total of 4 championships. Of course the last one was in 1983. In the 16 years prior to 1987, the Sixers were 1st place finishers 4 times, and 4 times they were conference champions, going to the NBA finals. However, the only NBA championship in those 16 years was in 1983. But in the 16 years since 1987, the Sixers have had only 2 1st place finshes (50% less than the previous 16 years) and only one time have they been conference champions (75% less than the previous 16 years). The one time they did go to the NBA finals in 2001, they lost to the Lakers in 5 games. Now maybe Shaq and Kobe had something to do with that? I think someone else had a hand as well.

In Hockey, the Flyers have had the most success of any recent pro franchise in Philadelphia. In the 16 years from 1970 to 1987, the Flyers won the Stanley Cup twice, won the conference championship 4 times, and had 9 first place finishes. In the 16 years since 1987, the Flyers have no Stanley Cups, and have only 1 conference championship with 4 first place finishes, both significant drops compared to the previous 16 years. And in their only Stanley Cup finals appearance against Detroit, they were swept in 4 games. I don’t think even Bobby Clarke in his prime could have helped.

So if you look at all the numbers, in the 16 years prior to 1987, Philadelphia teams have had 4 world championships in 10 appearances (40%). And that doesn’t count the Villanova NCAA basketball championship in 1985. In the 16 years since 1987, Philadelphia pro sports teams have ZERO championships in only 3 appearances.

Still, it might take you 80 years to be convinced that there is a curse similar to the one put on the Boston Red Sox by the Babe. But if in the year 2063 Philadelphia sports teams still have not seen a pro sports championship since the Sixers 1983 four game sweep of the Lakers, you have to start wondering. Especially since the last time anyone from the Philadelphia area celebrated a major championship was when the Penn State Nittany Lions won in 1986: the same year that the gentleman’s agreement was dropped and William Penn was being dwarfed by 1 Liberty Place. Hmmmm.

Wes

Too much writing. :eek: My eyes hurt.

i feel your pain
 

westley there hasn't been a title in philly since 1983 the sixers not 1987.

i realize your point about the billy penn thing but it goes beyond that.





I wrote this in october.

also long.

October 5, 2002

Philadelphia's four major professional sports teams: Flyers, Phillies, Eagles and Seventy-Sixers

I can't do it anymore. I cannot watch year after year as each one of them continue to rip my heart out.

I began my career of watching Philadelphia sports teams in the early 1970's with the Flyers.
When that team one 2 straight Stanley Cups in 1974 and 1975, I thought this was the way it's going to be all the time.

Then 1976 came and began for me the pain of following teams in Phila.

It began with the Flyers being swept out of the finals by the Montreal Canadians. Then was followed by the Phillies being swept by the Cincinnati Reds in the first round later that year.

Now comes 1977. First we get to see a hugely favored Sixers blow a 2 games to none advantage in the finals by losing 4 straight games to the Portland Trailblazers.

In the fall we have the privilege of witnessing Danny Ozark have a brain cramp and forget to take out Greg Luzinski and put Jerry Martin in left field for defensive purposes. So what happens next? An 80 year old player (Manny Mota) hits a ball right to Luzinski and he doesn't catch it and the Dodgers win the NLCS.

In 1978 again we have the Phillies against the dodgers in the NLCS. This time Vic Davalillo drops down a perfect bunt, then an easy fly ball to the best outfielder in baseball, Garry Maddox drops in. Phil's lose again.

Now we get to cap off the year by seeing the Eagles lose 14-13 in the wildcard game.

So 1979 rolls in, here the Phillies don't even make the playoffs. Even after signing Pete Rose to a 4-year contract as a free agent. The Flyers, and Sixers get knocked out again and the Eagles lose to the Tampa Buccaneers, a 3 year old expansion team that started out by losing the first 24 games in their history.

But then comes 1980 and things are looking up we are lucky enough to see all four teams make the finals in their respective league.

Unfortunately things don't get off to good start.

After starting their season with a 35 game unbeaten streak and getting into the finals against the N.Y. Islanders. The Flyers are snake bitten by one of the worst non-calls in all of sports when Leon Stickle does not call a painfully obvious off-sides, which took place directly in front of him, that leads to a goal and kills the Flyers spirit and propels the Isles to winning the Cup during over-time in game 6.

That was bad but I still follow the Sixers into the finals against the L.A. Lakers. Even though they fall behind 3 games to 2. Luck is on their side as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the future hall of fame center, is sidelined with an injury. The rookie point guard, Magic Johnson gets to play center in game 6 and promptly goes out and scores 50 to lead the Lakers to the title.

Ah we finally get a bright spot. The Phillies make it to the World Series. But that almost didn't happen either. The Phils win game one of the NLCS. But immediately go and lose the next two games in extra innings. So here we go again right?

Another choke job by one of our teams. Well believe it or not they won game 4 in extra innings again. In game 5 the Phils end up behind going into the 8th inning against Nolan Ryan. His record with the lead going into the 8th inning or later, ?86-0. The Phils of course perform a miracle and actually take the lead and knock Ryan out of the game. In the 4th straight extra inning game the Phils win and go on to beat the K.C. Royals 4 games to 2 and capture the only World Series win in team history.

Ok now we are 1 for 3 so far and that's not bad because we still have the Eagles coming up. After starting out the season 11-1 they finish up 12-4.

What they get for that is to play their hated rival the Dallas Cowboys in the NFC championship game. Being the better team the Eagles go out and destroy the Cowboys and move on to the SUPERBOWL.

So after being picked by virtually everyone to win they go out and gag it up to the Oakland Raiders.

So the 80's actually started out pretty good. This may have been the only time in history that all 4 major sports teams from the same city made the finals.

But then 1981 came around. First the Flyers get knocked out early. Then the Sixers cough up a 3 games to 1 lead to the Celtics and lose game 7 at home.

The Phillies win the first half of a strike interrupted season and don't recover in the division playoffs and lose 3-2 to the Montreal Expos. They make it back to the World Series in 1983 but the WHEEZE KIDS are just to old and can't hit against Baltimore Orioles pitchers.

For the next ten years the Phils only have 1 season above 500.

In 1982 and 1983 the Sixers play the Lakers in the finals. They lost in 1982 but win in 1983. This would be the last title the city of Philadelphia would see. Actually the Sixers almost lost to the Celtics again in 1982 after being up 3-1, again. This time they won game 7 but had to do it at Boston Garden. This would have been the 3rd time the Celtics had beaten the Sixers after being down 3 games to 1.

If the Sixers had beaten the Celts in 1981 they would have played the Houston Rockets, who had one player and were easily swept by the Celts.

Over the next 12 years they include a streak of 6 years in a row of losing more games then the year before.

The Flyers got knocked out early every year. Usually by the Capitals. Until 1985 and 1987 when they lost both times to the Edmonton Oilers. Possibly the best team ever, but still, we lost.

Late in the 1980?'s the Fly Boys began a run of 5 years not even making the playoffs. This was unheard of a time when only 5 teams didn't make the playoffs and no team had gone more then 2 years in a row out of the playoffs.

Then 1982 the Eagles lose a home game in the first round wildcard to the Giants. One year after making the SUPERBOWL.

The Eagles made the playoffs a few times but after Dick Vermeil quit as coach because he couldn't handle a couple of down years they were very inconsistent all during the 1980?'s.

Marion Campbell was a terrible coach and Buddy Ryan couldn't win in the playoffs because he refused to build an offense to go along with a great defense.

The Eagles made the playoffs a few times during the 90?'s. In spite of the fact that they hired a boob like Rich Kotite for head coach.

Of course the one year the Eagles had what may have been the best defense ever (1991), Randall Cunningham gets injured and is out for the year.Then we get a parade of backups and no names to play QB. Brad Goebel, Jeff Kemp, Jim McMahon and, Pat Ryan.

Between them they only threw 17 TD passes for the YEAR. They did not even make the playoffs.

In 1994 they start out 7-2. Kotite grumbles something about a new contract. Then the eagles promptly lose all 7 of their remaining games. And Kotite is fired.

So the Eagles hire Ray Rhoades. I believe they could have hired assistant coach Jeff Fisher but chose not too.

Fisher went on to coach the Tennessee titans into one of the best Superbowls ever, losing to the Rams in SB XXXIV, 23-16.

Rhoades proved he wasn't such a tough guy after all when the team stopped responding to his come into your house and rape your wife approach.

The Sixers slowly improved with the additions of Allen Iverson and the selling of the team to Ed Snyder and Pat Croce. But didn't do anything in the playoffs until 2001 when they did get back to the finals again to play the Lakers.

This Lakers team appeared invincible winning every game in the playoffs until the Sixers beat them in game one in L.A. and of course giving us all another batch of false hope. They lost the next four games to end their season.

The Flyers changed coaches almost every year, added Eric Lindros. But instead of adding a top tier goalie, Curtis Joseph, they go cheap and add John VanBeisbrook. So when they finally made it back to the Cup against Detroit in 1996, they were swept.

Now it's the year 2002, January.

3 events have brought me to the decision that I no longer am able to have an interest in following or allowing myself to an emotional attachment to any of these teams in the future. Because it just hurts too much and don't want to feel this frustration anymore. I've given all I have to give. I simply don't have it in me anymore.

The first thing happened in 1993 when the Phillies were playing the Toronto Blue Jays in the Series.

They were down 2 games to 1 and had a 14-9 lead going to the 9th inning. But could not hold the lead and lost. Down 3-1, Curt Schilling throws a shutout in game 5.

In game 6 they again have the lead going into the 9th. This time the manager has a pitcher in the game who anyone can see cannot pitch anymore in this series because his arm is shot. The pitcher in the 8th tossed a 1-2-3 inning and was looking good. But did Fregosi leave him in? No he took him out and put in Mitch Williams. I will never blame Williams for what happened next. He was done and had nothing left. I blame Fregosi for being stubborn and going with his "closer".

Mitch Williams serves up a 3 run home run and for only the second time in WORLD SERIES history a team wins the whole thing on a game ending home run.

That was the first thing that broke my sports heart. To this day I still have not seen that home run as I had turned off the TV as soon as it was hit because I just couldn't look at it.

When I went to visit the Hall of Fame there was a room with an entire wall covered with a photo of Joe Carter running around the bases after the hit. I would not go in that room.

Moving on to event number 2.

Flyers go up 3 games to 1 and are finally about to excise the ghost of the New Jersey Devils' past. Ok they lose game 5 no big deal still up 3-2.

Some blamed the rumors of Lindros coming back on the loss. Other's said that the Flyers still were not confident about beating the Devils.

Lindros comes back and plays in game 6 and happens to be the best player on the ice even after not playing for almost the entire season. He scored one goal and almost 2 as he scored just an instant after the first period ended in a 2-1 loss.

Game 7 at home for the Flyers. Halfway into the first period Lindros is tripped with a stick between the legs by one Devil while at the exact same time is being clobbered by a forearm to the head by Scott Stevens. As this ends the Flyers career of Eric Lindros it also takes all the heart out of the Flyers and they lose to the Devil's who go on to beat a weak Dallas Stars for the Cup.

That was the second thing to break my sports heart.

The third and not quite as big as the other two happened when the Eagles lost to the Rams in the NFC championship game.

It's not just because the Eagles lost that game it's because they lost before winning a title AGAIN. Just like every team in this city has done for the last 25 years. With 2 exceptions in 1980 and 1983.

They lost the same way these teams always lose. Some kind of crazy off-sides call goes against them or a guy drops a perfect bunt or someone drops an easy fly ball or they can't beat their arch rival even after having a big 3-1 game advantage. They turn upfield before the ball is snapped. They leave a dead arm pitcher in the game.

They call themselves a small market team as an excuse to not spend money. Or they get the ball on the 50-yard line with over 2 minutes to go and 3 timeouts then throw an interception to lose the game.

I've devoted too much time and energy to care anymore. So I give up. I no longer care if any Philadelphia sports team wins again. This isn't easy for me. I have seen almost every game that has involved Philly teams and players for the last 25 years including all star games, Olympics, exhibition games you name it I tried to watch it. All radios would be turned to 610 WIP almost exclusively. So believe me I was not a casual fan.

So if you wonder why I am skeptical when a team starts a season well and marches on to an apparent title or even makes it to a championship game, well this is why.

Is it ironic that what is arguably the biggest collapse in Philadelphia sports history happened only 1 month after I was born in 1964?


Update
January 20, 2003

So it happened again. The Eagles couldn't win the important game.

And the Phillies have spent a bundle of money to make the team better. So I guess I have to check in on them once in awhile to see how they do this season.

rotfl I WIll show this to all my Philly fan friends!!!

Get over yourselves Philly fans. Go through what Cleveland sports fans have over the last 39 years and then give me a call. But until then, you know where to put those 16 championships.
;)

Whine of the year award.

yup

whotony,

WOW! Great post! Actually I am not a Philly sports fan, but moved into the area in 1984.

I didn't realize some of these details!

I remember seeing that. You would think that with Kareem out, the Sixers would have a big advantage.

That's an amazing stat. All 4 sports teams in the championship. I guess the downside is that they only achieved 1 out of 4.

I remember thinking the same thing that year. The Eagles have an INCREDIBLE defense. Jerome Brown (who passed away the next year) and Reggie White were the anchors. But Randall went down. Bad luck.

I had almost forgotten that Jeff Fisher was an assistant coach who was almost hired. And I've always wondered did they ever consider getting rid of Ray Rhoades in 1998 and hiring Jon Gruden?

I blame Fregosi as well.

So, maybe it's the 1964 Phillies fault? Or is it the curse of Connie Mack, who's A's defined Philly sports in the 1st half of the 20th century.

Thanks for shedding some more light on the plight of Philadelphia sports! It's very fascinating.

Wes

Well its too long to read. Trouble with those big words, ya know -smile- There is no curse though. Thome and the phils all the way.

curse?

you've never heard of the Bambino, have you?

there is no other. the rest are just pretenders.

Curse? Try "Running into hot team"
 

I think the last few times a Philadelphia pro sports team lost in the league finals it was a classic case of the team being totally no match for the opposition.

Let's start with the 1997 Stanley Cup finals. The Detroit Red Wings were in almost every aspect VASTLY superior to the Philadelphia Flyers in the finals that season--and it showed in the finals. It didn't help that the Flyers' goalies were not much better than marginal at best, either.

In the case of the 2001 NBA Finals, the Los Angeles Lakers wiped out the Philadelphia 76ers because despite Allen Iverson's awesome playing ability they had NO way to stop that big monster called Shaquille O'Neal. When the 76ers can't stop O'Neal that freed up Kobe Bryant to play real hot, too.

Re: i feel your pain
 

Actually, Magic started at center and played all five positions during the game. He scored 42 points, had 15 rebounds, 7 assists, 3 steals and a block. Lakers won 123-107.

One of the greatest individual performances in the history of sports, IMO.

Re: Re: i feel your pain
 

thats exactly what i said except for the points total.

Re: Curse? Try "Running into hot team"
 

true about the 76ers but the flyers were the favorite to win that year.

thats why after getting swept the coach called it "a choking situation"

and it was.

i'm not whining just complaining.

people in cleveland, detroit, chicago,boston, are all cities with a long and deep sports history.
the fans in all of these cities, and some i may have overlooked, have every reason to complain and say that they give up on their teams too.

especially cleveland i really cant think of anytime they have won any title except for the indians a very long time ago.

but even detroit has won basketball and hocky titles in the last 10 or 12 years.

the bears won in 1985 so it's been awhile for them.

the celtics have won more titles then any team in sports except for mybe the yankees.
but have that babe ruth, and bill buckner stigma over the red sox.

"in the last 10-12 years" :lol:

Basketball, nadda

Hockey :confused: :confused:

(hint: 97, 98, 02)

thats what i said.

and didnt the pistons win in 88 and 89?

ok. that was 13 or 14 years ago. but thats what i was saying.

As bad as it seems for some cities it's not really that bad.

The Pistons won in '89 and '90.

Didn't they used to have a pretty good basketball team in Chicago?

yes thank you i knew i forgot something.

also since the pistons won in 89/90 that goes to my point of winning in the last 12 years or so.

The Browns won several championships in the '50s and '60s, with the last one being in 1964.

Hence my 39 years comment. I sadly can not think of another city that has gone longer without winning at least one major sports championship. :(

curse, yeah.

all teams, i don't know. only follow football. but i have long said the eagles are curse and will not win, usually i atributte that to veterans being built on a indian burial ground. so next year will, may or may not, disprove that.


then again, it may have something with me hating the eagles since my dad was a huge fan. :)

New Orleans
San Diego
Sacramento
Salt Lake City
Jacksonville
Nashville
Charlotte
Tampa (may change)

I'm sure there are more too.

Of course these cities do not tend to have a full slate of franchises.

Don't fret Philly fans...Philly is #1 in something:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs02/s/...3/1497876.html

The only curse in Philly is McNabb, takes his team to the NFC Championship 2 years in a row and then LOSES!

New Oleans still in the Oh-fer column, after the meltdown against da Bears...

Indy could've been on the list and may be getting off, although not a full slate of teams, since the last championship was in the ABA days for the Pacers...

Hm...interesting thread to bump.

Yeah, I was in a discussion about Ray Rhodes not being a good head coach, but a decent coordinator. In searching for more details on his Philly years, this came up...

It's nice to know that with all the changes that have gone on in the world in the last 4 years, Philly teams choking and sucking is a constant in the universe. At least we've still got the Flyers and Sixers playing ... errr ... crud :(

Phillies are the best hope for the next couple years. Sixers and Flyers are in rebuild mode for the next couple of years.

I was planning to wait until after the Super Bowl to update my Sports Futility thread, but as it seems that folks have begun debating the bragging rights, I\'ve gone ahead and release a pre-Super Bowl update.

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/sports-talk/453563-sports-futility.html

For the record, Cleveland still has the longest drought, having gone 119 consecutive professional sport seasons without a championship. Philadelphia has 94, but has a team in one more sport than Cleveland (NHL), so they could claim overall bragging rights in 25 years, provided neither city wins a title before then. Circle the Stanley Cup Finals for the 2031-2032 season. :)

As far as towns who have never won a title, Indianapolis has endured the most non-championship seasons... 61 and counting. Well, actually it's 52. I miscounted the NBA seasons.

These figures count only NFL, AFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL championships.

Cleveland fans are the one group I'll readily agree have had it even worse than Philly fans. And the Ravens winning the Super Bowl must've been like a gigantic kick in the nads, making the "winless" streak feel even worse.

Well when Philly fans started booing at Santa, your teams deserved to be cursed. :)

The problem with every Philly team that has made it to the Championship since the 76ers won, is that they have played a dynasty and never got to play some Cinderella story.

1985 & 1987 - The Flyers played the Edmonton Oilers, one of the greatest NHL teams of All-time. The Oilers won 4 cups in 5 years.

1993 - The Phillies lost to the Blue Jays, who won back to back World Series in 1992 & 1993, and featured 6 future hall of famers in their lineup.

1997 - The Flyers played the Detroit Red Wings, who would sweep the Flyers and go on to win 3 Cups in the next 6 years.

2001 - The 76ers would lose to the Lakers, who were on the road to 3-peating in 2000, 2001, and 2002.

2005 - The Eagles lose the Superbowl to the Patriots, who end up winning their 3rd Superbowl in 5 years.

The only team to not play a dynasty was the 1983 Phillies, and they played a great Baltimore Orioles team featuring Cal Ripken & Eddie Murray in their prime.

Philadelphia is not jinxed, we just haven't had a better team play in the Championship like we did with the '83 76ers.

Throw in Smarty Jones and Barbaro. :) Might as well throw in St. Josephs from a couple years back too.

The Phantoms did win an AHL title though. And didn't the WFL team win the championship? :lol:

Ah the WFL team. Maybe the worst nickname ever....

http://www.geocities.com/wflphiladel...lowpennant.jpg

rotfl

Incidentally, you are probably thinking of the USFL Philadelphia Stars who won the 1984 championship (and repeated in 1985 as the Baltimore Stars), so you got that going for ya.

who had to bring this topic back up.

:johnwoo2:

Can't do that ... then we have to count 'Nova in 85, and that throws the curse off by a couple of years :) Though as a Temple alum, they've done more than their share of taunting the city's sports faithful. Making repeated attempts at the Final Four only to run into some powerhouse (Duke, most likely) whose fans consider a Final Four appearance without a national championship a disappointment.

I know you're joking in a friendly ball-busting way. But really, imagine this situation at a any game today, in any city. It's cold. It's snowing. Your team is bad ... horrendously bad (2-12). With horrid coaching and ownership, there's no signs of getting better. But the fans still pack the stadiums. In the middle of another loss ... what's this at half-time? A marching band starts playing "Here Comes Santa Claus". Out come a bunch of dancing elves, and some skinny kid in a spectacularly crappy Santa outfit stumbling out onto the field. If you're telling me that this halftime entertainment wouldn't get booed in other cities ... I flat-out don't believe you!

USFL! I remember that team ... Chuck Fusina, right? Woo Hoo ... we really are winners :)