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Old 06-29-02, 05:35 PM   #1
Bust
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Baseball Question: Under what circumstances is a Save awarded?

The reason I ask, I was under the impression that to earn a save, the tying run had to be on deck. Last night, Orlando Hernandez earned his first save in a 11-5 blow-out of the Mets. So, obviously, I was under the wrong impression.
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Old 06-29-02, 06:41 PM   #2
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Saves are awarded to the last pitcher in a game won by his team (but not the winning pitcher) under one of the following conditions:

1. He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning
2. He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck
3. He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game.

I didn't see the game but this save was probably an example of #3.
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Old 06-29-02, 06:44 PM   #3
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http://games.espn.go.com/content/leg...=glossaryterms

Quote:
Save Situation

A Relief Pitcher is in a Save Situation when upon entering the game with his club leading, he has the opportunity to be the finishing pitcher (and is not the winning pitcher of record at the time), and meets any one of the three following conditions:

1. He has a lead of no more than three runs and has the opportunity to pitch for at least one inning, or

2. He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, at bat, or on deck; or

3. He pitches three or more innings regardless of the lead and the official scorer credits him with a save.
Edit:

Geez, while I was copying the answer, someone beat me to it.
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Last edited by movielib; 06-29-02 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 06-30-02, 04:36 PM   #4
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Awesome.
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Old 06-30-02, 06:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thor Simpson


Was it the third example?
I'm not sure why they gave it to Hernandez, I'm just happy to have gained some more baseball knowledge.
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Old 06-30-02, 07:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bust


I'm not sure why they gave it to Hernandez, I'm just happy to have gained some more baseball knowledge.
This is why orlando hernandez got the save, even though the yankees won by more than 3...

If a reliever pitches more than 3 innings (hernandez pitched 4) and he finishes the game off, the scorekeeper can give him a save if he feels the pitcher pitched well enough to deserve one.
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Old 06-30-02, 07:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by TruGator


This is why orlando hernandez got the save, even though the yankees won by more than 3...

If a reliever pitches more than 3 innings (hernandez pitched 4) and he finishes the game off, the scorekeeper can give him a save if he feels the pitcher pitched well enough to deserve one.
I don't think what the scorekeeper feels is taken into account. If the pitcher pitches 3 effective innings, essentially a 3 inning hold, he gets a save.
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Old 06-30-02, 09:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by J-Dubya


I don't think what the scorekeeper feels is taken into account. If the pitcher pitches 3 effective innings, essentially a 3 inning hold, he gets a save.
What I wrote was NOT dealing with the 3 inning or less rule. If you pitch MORE THAN 3 innings (no matter what the score is), the scorekeeper can credit you with a save as long as you finish up the game (and you're on the winning team, duh).

So in Orlando Hernandez's instance: he pitched innings 6-9 (4 innings) and the scorekeeper credited him with a save even though the yankees won by 6.
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Old 06-30-02, 09:45 PM   #9
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A more important statistic than saves, IMO, is blown saves.
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Old 07-01-02, 11:33 AM   #10
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The save is perhaps the most overrated official pitching statistic in the game today. Ask Hoyt Wilhelm, Rollie Fingers, or Goose Gossage and they'll tell you what should constitute a save.
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Old 07-01-02, 01:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by classicman2
A more important statistic than saves, IMO, is blown saves.
Quote:
Originally posted by Red Dog
The save is perhaps the most overrated official pitching statistic in the game today. Ask Hoyt Wilhelm, Rollie Fingers, or Goose Gossage and they'll tell you what should constitute a save.
What does that have to do with the question posed by the thread starter? A little off-topic, don't you think?
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Old 07-01-02, 06:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by classicman2
A more important statistic than saves, IMO, is blown saves.
Actually blown saves can be misleading too. Like you enter a game with a runner on third, one out, and a one-run lead. You allow a sac fly and strikeout. Batters are 0-2 and you pitched well.

Your reward: A Blown save
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Old 07-01-02, 06:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thor Simpson


Want to enlighten those of us who don't have a speaking relationship with these men?
Well, I don't know what those guys said, but mostly closers don't necessarily pitch in that many crucial situations. Meaning this. With a few exceptions (like B.H. Kim), most closers mostly only pitch at the beginning of an inning. They come in the ninth with no one on base and no outs. Sometimes with as much as a three run lead. Even a below average major league reliever can post a 4.50 ERA in relief. That's a run every other inning. To get a save, they don't have to do much. Sometimes they even pitch to the 7, 8, and 9 hitters and not the 3, 4, and 5 guys. Not much of a challenege for a big league pitcher is it?

The crucial saves are those when you come in with runners on base, a 1-run game, or hav to pitch several innings.

that's not to say every closer only pitchers in easy situations, they don't. And most of them are very good pitchers. But most saves, are not that crucial.
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Old 07-01-02, 10:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jericho


Actually blown saves can be misleading too. Like you enter a game with a runner on third, one out, and a one-run lead. You allow a sac fly and strikeout. Batters are 0-2 and you pitched well.

Your reward: A Blown save
Is that really considered a blown save? I thought that since the runner on third is not the new pitcher's responsibility that the pitcher who was taken out of the game would get the blown save. I know it wouldn't be the new pitcher's earned run so I don't see how it can be considered a blown save.
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Old 07-02-02, 12:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by TruGator


Is that really considered a blown save? I thought that since the runner on third is not the new pitcher's responsibility that the pitcher who was taken out of the game would get the blown save. I know it wouldn't be the new pitcher's earned run so I don't see how it can be considered a blown save.
It's not his earned run, you're right. But it is his blown save. Basically, if you enter the game with the lead and lose it (even by errors or as stated above witht he sac fly), it's a blown save.
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Old 07-02-02, 09:18 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jericho


Well, I don't know what those guys said, but mostly closers don't necessarily pitch in that many crucial situations. Meaning this. With a few exceptions (like B.H. Kim), most closers mostly only pitch at the beginning of an inning. They come in the ninth with no one on base and no outs. Sometimes with as much as a three run lead. Even a below average major league reliever can post a 4.50 ERA in relief. That's a run every other inning. To get a save, they don't have to do much. Sometimes they even pitch to the 7, 8, and 9 hitters and not the 3, 4, and 5 guys. Not much of a challenege for a big league pitcher is it?

The crucial saves are those when you come in with runners on base, a 1-run game, or hav to pitch several innings.

that's not to say every closer only pitchers in easy situations, they don't. And most of them are very good pitchers. But most saves, are not that crucial.

Exactly. The closers of the past (more than 15 years ago) usually pitched 2 or more innings and they almost invariably came in when there were runners on base. Now they usually come in to start the 9th with a clean slate. Hardly any pressure, especially if they have a 2 or 3 run lead.

In other words, a guy who saved 25 games in 1980 is much more impressive to me than a guy who saves 45 games today.
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