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Old 06-26-02, 09:00 PM   #1
twikoff
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will the mets disassemble their team?

NY media says that if the Mets dont make a big run before the all star break, including several wins in the braves series.. that the mets may start to talk trades and dump payroll

the mets went out and spent a ton of money in the offseason to try and build a championship team..
everyone assumed that the mets were going to breeze through the division..
but it looks like the mets are about to lose a second game in this four game series with the braves (game 4 tomorrow).. which means they will not win this series.. and with a loss tonight, they will be 8 1/2 games out of first

it is expected they will cut their losses and dump payroll..
any projections on which players will be the first to go?
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Old 06-26-02, 09:05 PM   #2
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I said this two years ago, and it's just as true now. The Mets played much better than their talent when they made it to the Series. They are a team with some fundamental problems that cannot be fixed by just throwing money at them. It's time for some major changes in that franchise, and I'm sure you can guess where the first change should be.

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Old 06-26-02, 09:07 PM   #3
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but at least they lead the majors in errors
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Old 06-26-02, 09:08 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by das Monkey
and I'm sure you can guess where the first change should be.

das
valentine!
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Old 06-26-02, 09:16 PM   #5
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Aye, not too many Valentine fans anywhere...
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Old 06-26-02, 09:59 PM   #6
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For starters:

Get rid of Burnitz (I hated them signing him to begin with b/c he sucks) and Big Mo.

Obtain a good young catcher who can actually throw out would be base stealers.

Force Piazza to play 1B with occasional games behind the plate to spell the regular catcher.

Obtain a quality power hitting outfielder to replace Burnitz.

After that, then see what you can do to get a 2nd quality outfielder since Cedeno/Payton/Perez/etc. in the other 2 OF positions sucks.
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Old 06-26-02, 11:02 PM   #7
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The Mets didn't really go out and spend a lot more money in the offseason. They basically traded their 'bad' contracts for similar contracts.

Anyways, Mo Vaughn, Burnitz, and Ordonez are virtually untradeable.

The Mets should rebuild for 2004 or 2005. They should trade Leiter, Trachsel, Estes, Alomar, & Guthrie for prospects.

By trading the above players they should be able to restock the farm system with quality players.

By 2004, Jose Reyes should be ready and he is already one of the top prospects in baseball. While playing in high A ball, he was already mentioned as one of the top 3 SS prospects. He's now in AA and doing well. His fielding is already on par with Ordonez and his batting should be great. Ordonez's contract ends after next season and Reyes should be able to easily replace Ordonez.

Also hopefully Aaron Heilman and Pat Strange should be ready sometime by next year. I'm guessing that one of Strange or Heilman will be in the starting rotation at the start of 2003 since Leiter, Trax, D'Amico, and Estes will be free agents at the end of the season.

I think they'll have to let Piazza stay at catcher because they're not going to be able to get rid of Vaughn. By the time Vaughn is gone (2005) , Piazza will hopefully move to 1B and the Mets will let Justin Huber (catcher in Low A ball right now, putting up astounding numbers) play at catcher. By this time hopefully David Wright (3B, low A) will also be ready.

Hopefully the Mets will realize that they need to rebuild and get younger.

Personally, I don't think Valentine should be fired. I'm amazed with what he's done given these scrubs that Steve Phillips has given him.
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Old 06-27-02, 05:26 AM   #8
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the media does not make it sound like bettering the team will be the #1 reason for the moves.. sounds alot more like giving up on the season and dumping salaries

which of course the yankees will pick up any of the high priced players they dump
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Old 06-27-02, 06:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff
the media does not make it sound like bettering the team will be the #1 reason for the moves.. sounds alot more like giving up on the season and dumping salaries

which of course the yankees will pick up any of the high priced players they dump
I can't find anyone worth it for the Yanks to pick up. Maybe the Braves will find some of them useful
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Old 06-27-02, 08:25 AM   #10
classicman2
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shamu




The Mets should rebuild for 2004 or 2005. They should trade Leiter, Trachsel, Estes, Alomar, & Guthrie for prospects.

Now all you have to do is find a team that will trade and will assume their salaries. Much easier said than done.
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Old 06-27-02, 09:14 AM   #11
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How about Leiter to the Cardinals for Mike Matheny and a bag of chips?
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Old 06-27-02, 09:16 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by AndyCapps
How about Leiter to the Cardinals for Mike Matheny and a bag of chips?
what brand of chip?
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Old 06-27-02, 09:34 AM   #13
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The Cardinals will jump at that trade.

Leiter's salary: $9,250,000

Matheny's salary: $2,500,000

The Cardinals are attempting to "contract" their payroll.



I'm afraid the Mets are stuck with Mr. Leiter.
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Old 06-27-02, 10:01 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by classicman2
The Cardinals will jump at that trade.

Leiter's salary: $9,250,000

Matheny's salary: $2,500,000

The Cardinals are attempting to "contract" their payroll.



I'm afraid the Mets are stuck with Mr. Leiter.
I believe the need to pick up a pitcher or two outweighs a small payroll increase. Rick Ankiel may never be ready. I have about as much faith in Travis Smith as I have in Bud Smith right now. Hell, things could be bad enough that Andy Benes may take the mound again soon.

Yes, I said small payroll increase, to which anyone would say $6,750,000 is not a small increase. Depending on how the insurance policy works, I'm assuming it will cover the balance of DK's $5,500,000 salary. So the Cardinals would be out $1,250,000 over their current payroll. Hell, the Mets might chip in for part of that to dump him. From what I'm looking at, Leiter's deal is up after this season. Actually, the way this looks he's making $8,000,000 this year, if that's the case the math would work out perfectly. The Mets would get a low cost defensive catcher through 2004. The Cardinals would fill an immediate need for a 4th or 5th starter.
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Old 06-27-02, 10:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff


what brand of chip?
They can pick. I'm even willing to go a bag of President's Casino or Casino Queen chips.
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Old 06-27-02, 10:09 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by AndyCapps


They can pick. I'm even willing to go a bag of President's Casino or Casino Queen chips.
well.. you know.. with those two pitchers.. the brand of chips is the deciding factor in the trade
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Old 06-27-02, 10:33 AM   #17
classicman2
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Quote:
Originally posted by AndyCapps


I believe the need to pick up a pitcher or two outweighs a small payroll increase. Rick Ankiel may never be ready. I have about as much faith in Travis Smith as I have in Bud Smith right now. Hell, things could be bad enough that Andy Benes may take the mound again soon.

Yes, I said small payroll increase, to which anyone would say $6,750,000 is not a small increase. Depending on how the insurance policy works, I'm assuming it will cover the balance of DK's $5,500,000 salary. So the Cardinals would be out $1,250,000 over their current payroll. Hell, the Mets might chip in for part of that to dump him. From what I'm looking at, Leiter's deal is up after this season. Actually, the way this looks he's making $8,000,000 this year, if that's the case the math would work out perfectly. The Mets would get a low cost defensive catcher through 2004. The Cardinals would fill an immediate need for a 4th or 5th starter.
And what do you propose the Cardinals do for a low-cost defensive catcher?
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Old 06-27-02, 10:43 AM   #18
AndyCapps
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Quote:
Originally posted by classicman2


And what do you propose the Cardinals do for a low-cost defensive catcher?
They'd still have Mike DiFelice and Eli Marrero.
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Old 06-27-02, 10:46 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by AndyCapps


They'd still have Mike DiFelice and Eli Marrero.
DiFelice is nothing but a back-up catcher.

Marrero is too valuable to stick him behind the plate everyday. He can play a bunch of positions.
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Old 06-27-02, 11:44 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by AndyCapps
The Cardinals would fill an immediate need for a 4th or 5th starter.
Geez, you have both an inflated viewpoint about the Cards staff and a deflated view of the Mets. Outside of Morris, who is better than Leiter. He'd be the 2nd starter, I'd say...
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Old 06-27-02, 12:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by LurkerDan

Geez, you have both an inflated viewpoint about the Cards staff and a deflated view of the Mets. Outside of Morris, who is better than Leiter. He'd be the 2nd starter, I'd say...
I definitely have a deflated view of the Mets. But I don't have a problem with him being the 2nd starter. I was thinking of it more from the viewpoint that the Cardinals already have 4 starters, and need a 5th(just in quantity). Bud Smith is 0-5 this season, so he should be bumped to 5th(where I came up with the 4 slot being open). Simontacchi is 5-1 with a 3.00 ERA. Woody Williams is 5-3 with a 2.26 ERA. Leiter is 7-6 with a 3.06 ERA. The Cardinals current rotation is Morris, Williams, Simontacchi, Smith.

Smith is pitching tonight. If they made the trade today, it would be easy enough to bump Smith's next start by a day to fit Leiter in the 4 slot, and to give him a few days before his first start. So I wasn't really looking at Leiter's spot qualitywise. If he isn't put in the 2nd slot right off, maybe it can be his during the playoffs.
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Old 06-27-02, 12:20 PM   #22
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i hate you guys

yes the mets are sucking wind ... but you know what? in the past three seasons, after June 15th, there are only two teams with better records than the mets ....
so what if the two just happen to be the arch-enemies of the mets, the braves and yanks

right now, there is no real viable option than to let this team play out - you hafta believe (well you don't hafta do a damm_thing i guess but) that the mets are playing below potential ... so let em play this year out i say.

as for valentine, they could chuck him, but i don't think that's the answer. managers ask players to hit, run and field. i'm sure the mets are listening, but the fact that they're not doing it isn't all bobby v's fault.

bag of chips ... i hate you guys
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Old 06-27-02, 01:07 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by LurkerDan
Outside of Morris, who is better than Leiter. He'd be the 2nd starter, I'd say...
Williams
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Old 06-27-02, 01:09 PM   #24
classicman2
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Smith has an excuse. It hurts him to try and snap the curve ball.
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Old 06-27-02, 01:14 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by qbert

yes the mets are sucking wind ... but you know what? in the past three seasons, after June 15th, there are only two teams with better records than the mets ....
so what if the two just happen to be the arch-enemies of the mets, the braves and yanks


does that include this season?
btw.. the braves are 18-5 in june
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