Indian Mascots

calhoun07 · 06-12-02, 04:57 PM

I heard a news story on the radio today about how certian special interest groups were trying to stop sports teams from using Indian names and Indian related mascots because it's durogatory or something like that.

Now, I grew up in a town in Minnesota called Owatonna, and the town was founded by Indians and named after an Indian princess. It's a part of the proud heritage of the city, and when I was in high school, the foot ball team was the Owatonna Indians, but in the early 90s they had to change their name to the Owatonna Huskies. I realize they used certain things that were iconic of the Indian culture in pep rallies and such, but it wasn't durogatory towards the Indian culture, it was in respect to the heritage of the city we were proud of.

So I am wondering why do people get so upset about stuff like this? And where will it end? I could probably find things all over in our culture that could be percieved as durogatory in someway or another if I looked hard enough. I don't understand why sports teams have to be the target in this situation.

Venusian · 06-12-02, 05:00 PM

why are people opposed to the name Clevland Indians when Indians properly refers to people from India?

sexy_overlord · 06-12-02, 05:01 PM

We have a minor league Indian team, but they have some sort of bird as the mascot.

I don't understand the Indians taking offense either. When sports team call themselves the Indians it's because they want to portray themselves as proud warriors that are a force to be reckoned with. Seems more like a compliment to me.

DodgingCars · 06-12-02, 05:08 PM

I don't know.. I still want to be in the Fightin' Whities with a mascot who can't dance.

adamblast · 06-12-02, 05:14 PM

California, in the past few weeks, just decided NOT to unilaterally ban all indian-based mascots statewide. They're going to leave it up to the individual schools, towns, etc, which I think is the way it should be...

Locally, we were very concerned because our only public high school has used the Braves name for well over 60 years... I don't think there's anyone in town, native American or otherwise, who wanted to change it...

YellowLedbetter · 06-12-02, 05:15 PM

The University of Tennessee-Chattanooga bowed to pressure... Its teams were called the Moccasins. Mocs for short. (There's a big curve in the river there, called Moccasin bend- so I think it refers to the snake and not the shoe). Their mascot at games was an indian chief. Anyway, they changed the name to the Mockingbirds... I guess so they could keep the name Mocs.

Regardless of what you think of the overall issue (I am not entering that discussion) this has got to be one of the stupidest mascot changes in the history of mascot changes. The Mockingbirds??????? ohhhhh, now thats a mascot that strikes fear and respect into any opponent.

edited to add: The teams have now taken to repeating everything their opponents say to them in an annoying mind game that has resulted in a few victories.

GuessWho · 06-12-02, 05:19 PM

my high scool's team was (and is) simply called The Indians

silentbob007 · 06-12-02, 05:35 PM

I'm so glad that we are so bored in society that time and money can be spent on this problem

LurkerDan · 06-12-02, 05:38 PM

I think it is the mascots rather than the names that can be the most offensive. The dork dressed up like an indian chief would probably piss me off too, if I were indian.

And I am sorry, but a team name like "Redskins" is no different than the Houston Darkies, the New York Kikes, or the San Diego Wetbacks.

I agree that a team name like Braves doesn't seem offensive at all...

c-moon · 06-12-02, 05:51 PM

Yes, I agree that Redskins could be taken as an offense by indians. That's what settlers called them when they wanted to demean them, isn't it?

But all the others are fine. There is this very vocal fringe element of native americans, backed by a horde of politically correct white men, who want to force organizations to change their names. The general public just don't see a reason to get upset about it (even on reservations!).

LurkerDan · 06-12-02, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by c-moon
But all the others are fine. There is this very vocal fringe element of native americans, backed by a horde of politically correct white men, who want to force organizations to change their names. The general public just don't see a reason to get upset about it (even on reservations!).

While I sorta agree with you, it is the tone of response like this that gets indians pissed off. As I noted, you can have a name like the Cleveland Indians, but take a look at the mascot itself. That is fairly demeaning, not the name.

Number_One · 06-12-02, 06:23 PM

Is Redskins worse than Fighting Irish or Canucks?

Is Indians worse than Vikings?

I wish I had a source on this, but I'm pretty sure polls show that a majority of people with Native American ancestry (there are very few full-blooded Native Americans left) aren't bothered by these team names.

c-moon · 06-12-02, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LurkerDan

While I sorta agree with you, it is the tone of response like this that gets indians pissed off. As I noted, you can have a name like the Cleveland Indians, but take a look at the mascot itself. That is fairly demeaning, not the name.

I guess my tone can best be described as defensive. I am concerned that the very tiny minority of indians that get offended by this will eventually wear down the PC-types that hang out at many colleges. We may lose some darn fine traditions that way.

AS far as mascots go, there's NOTHING demeaning about this:

The Seminole Indian Tribe of Florida helped design the outfit and it is a beautiful tribute to the Seminole Indians. Yet, FSU is always targeted as one of the biggest offenders. I guess they are an easy mark because of their high profile.

c-moon · 06-12-02, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Number_One
Is Redskins worse than Fighting Irish or Canucks?

It doesn't offend me at all. However, the term redskin was applied to indians in order to degrade them. Like the previous poster said, it is akin to naming a team after any number of demeaning ethnic terms you can conjure up.

How about if Notre Dame's mascot was called the Notre Dame Drunken Irishmen? How long do you think that would last?

Again, redskins doesn't bother me at all, but of all the names, that one stands apart as being the most derogatory. If ANY name should change, I could see that one. But I say leave them all alone.

And by the way, the poll you are thinking of was in Sports Illustrated a few months ago. Even on reservations, a majority of people polled were not offended, though the number was naturally much higher than in the general population.

06-12-02, 04:57 PM	#1
calhoun07 DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 12,964	Indian Mascots I heard a news story on the radio today about how certian special interest groups were trying to stop sports teams from using Indian names and Indian related mascots because it's durogatory or something like that. Now, I grew up in a town in Minnesota called Owatonna, and the town was founded by Indians and named after an Indian princess. It's a part of the proud heritage of the city, and when I was in high school, the foot ball team was the Owatonna Indians, but in the early 90s they had to change their name to the Owatonna Huskies. I realize they used certain things that were iconic of the Indian culture in pep rallies and such, but it wasn't durogatory towards the Indian culture, it was in respect to the heritage of the city we were proud of. So I am wondering why do people get so upset about stuff like this? And where will it end? I could probably find things all over in our culture that could be percieved as durogatory in someway or another if I looked hard enough. I don't understand why sports teams have to be the target in this situation. __________________ You can only please a woman with a dick made out of chocolate that ejaculates money.-Rhemus Windowless vans do NOT have candy, only rape.

06-12-02, 05:01 PM	#3
sexy_overlord DVD Talk Ultimate Edition Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The house that boredom built. Posts: 4,459	We have a minor league Indian team, but they have some sort of bird as the mascot. I don't understand the Indians taking offense either. When sports team call themselves the Indians it's because they want to portray themselves as proud warriors that are a force to be reckoned with. Seems more like a compliment to me. __________________ Or what? You'll release the dogs, or the bees, or the dogs with bees in their mouths and when they bark they shoot bees at you? zOOmz went bye bye. And I was in her sig.

06-12-02, 05:08 PM	#4
DodgingCars DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: The L.A. Posts: 18,104	I don't know.. I still want to be in the Fightin' Whities with a mascot who can't dance. __________________ My DVDs My Games

06-12-02, 05:15 PM	#6
YellowLedbetter DVD Talk Gold Edition Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Chattanooga, TN Posts: 2,010	The University of Tennessee-Chattanooga bowed to pressure... Its teams were called the Moccasins. Mocs for short. (There's a big curve in the river there, called Moccasin bend- so I think it refers to the snake and not the shoe). Their mascot at games was an indian chief. Anyway, they changed the name to the Mockingbirds... I guess so they could keep the name Mocs. Regardless of what you think of the overall issue (I am not entering that discussion) this has got to be one of the stupidest mascot changes in the history of mascot changes. The Mockingbirds??????? ohhhhh, now thats a mascot that strikes fear and respect into any opponent. edited to add: The teams have now taken to repeating everything their opponents say to them in an annoying mind game that has resulted in a few victories. Last edited by YellowLedbetter; 06-12-02 at 05:35 PM.

06-12-02, 05:35 PM	#8
silentbob007 DVD Talk Platinum Edition Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: West Lafayette, IN Posts: 3,651	I'm so glad that we are so bored in society that time and money can be spent on this problem __________________ Suave ... Sophisticated ... Silent .... I am a writer. I give the truth scope. Profession: Permanent Student My sad excuse for a blog ....

06-12-02, 05:00 PM	#2
Venusian Moderator Join Date: Nov 1999 Posts: 34,998	why are people opposed to the name Clevland Indians when Indians properly refers to people from India?

06-12-02, 05:14 PM	#5
adamblast DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Lompoc, CA Posts: 10,734	California, in the past few weeks, just decided NOT to unilaterally ban all indian-based mascots statewide. They're going to leave it up to the individual schools, towns, etc, which I think is the way it should be... Locally, we were very concerned because our only public high school has used the Braves name for well over 60 years... I don't think there's anyone in town, native American or otherwise, who wanted to change it...

06-12-02, 05:19 PM	#7
GuessWho DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 20,659	my high scool's team was (and is) simply called The Indians

06-12-02, 05:38 PM	#9
LurkerDan DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: The People's Republic of Boulder Posts: 13,422	I think it is the mascots rather than the names that can be the most offensive. The dork dressed up like an indian chief would probably piss me off too, if I were indian. And I am sorry, but a team name like "Redskins" is no different than the Houston Darkies, the New York Kikes, or the San Diego Wetbacks. I agree that a team name like Braves doesn't seem offensive at all... __________________ "I have dictionary facts to support me." - art "we get paid for butt time" - mosquitobite "It felt much more comfortable when I was trying them on. No sharp edge poking my skin." - Buford T. Pusser

06-12-02, 05:51 PM	#10
c-moon Senior Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Right here! Posts: 670	Yes, I agree that Redskins could be taken as an offense by indians. That's what settlers called them when they wanted to demean them, isn't it? But all the others are fine. There is this very vocal fringe element of native americans, backed by a horde of politically correct white men, who want to force organizations to change their names. The general public just don't see a reason to get upset about it (even on reservations!).

06-12-02, 06:23 PM	#12
Number_One Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 338	Is Redskins worse than Fighting Irish or Canucks? Is Indians worse than Vikings? I wish I had a source on this, but I'm pretty sure polls show that a majority of people with Native American ancestry (there are very few full-blooded Native Americans left) aren't bothered by these team names. __________________ Spaulding get your foot off the boat!