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View Poll Results: Should Pete Rose Be In The Hall Of Fame?
Yes, His stats are amazing 106 59.89%
Yes, if he admits and/or apologizes 14 7.91%
No, his actions are inexcusable 52 29.38%
only if he takes twikoff with him 5 2.82%
Voters: 177. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-15-02, 02:51 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Dog

Not if I think it is entirely correct. Not when people are clamoring for proof that he bet on the Reds/baseball games and when it is presented (in visual form no less), they still say that it is not proof (only an allegation).
true.. i want proof that he bet against the reds.. anything short of that, and the punishment is a joke
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Old 05-15-02, 02:59 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff


true.. i want proof that he bet against the reds.. anything short of that, and the punishment is a joke

So you would lobby for a change in the rule? For just managers/coaches? Players?
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Old 05-15-02, 03:00 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Dog

So you would lobby for a change in the rule? For just managers/coaches? Players?
nope.. the rule is fine.. the punishment is a joke
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Old 05-15-02, 03:00 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff


nope.. the rule is fine.. the punishment is a joke

So you admit that he actually did something wrong?
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Old 05-15-02, 03:01 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff
true.. i want proof that he bet against the reds.. anything short of that, and the punishment is a joke
Huh? You don't think it's bad if he bet for them? What if a player hurts himslef in the 5th inning, and really should sit for the rest of the night as a precaution, but Pete has a lot of money on the game so leaves him in, risking serious injury (but not risking him any money). Betting on your team deserves a lifetime ban, IMHO.
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Old 05-15-02, 03:03 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by LurkerDan


Huh? You don't think it's bad if he bet for them? What if a player hurts himslef in the 5th inning, and really should sit for the rest of the night as a precaution, but Pete has a lot of money on the game so leaves him in, risking serious injury (but not risking him any money). Betting on your team deserves a lifetime ban, IMHO.

I already introduced this scenario (along with a few others) and it was rejected for no real reason.....
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"A question for you. Would you rather Bucknell make the NCAA's once every 20 years or so and get ass raped by teams like Kansas in the first round or have them drop down a rung to a confernce where they can compete for a title?"
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1st Round Final Scores: Bucknell 64 Kansas 63 | Bucknell 59 Arkansas 55

Last edited by Red Dog; 05-15-02 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 05-15-02, 03:04 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally posted by LurkerDan

Huh? You don't think it's bad if he bet for them? What if a player hurts himslef in the 5th inning, and really should sit for the rest of the night as a precaution, but Pete has a lot of money on the game so leaves him in, risking serious injury (but not risking him any money). Betting on your team deserves a lifetime ban, IMHO.
you might want to skim back through the last 6 pages.. we have gone over that one in depth

i think arguing strategy is a very far stretch, and if thats the best arguement that can be used, then pete would be in the hall right now. using that logic, then why isnt it ok to bet on the 7th game of the world series, when there is no game following?

of course with any topic.. you will have your fanatics pointing one way.. but the fact that 3/4 of all fans feel that other way, makes you wonder whose interest MLB really is taking in mind.
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Old 05-15-02, 03:09 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff

i think arguing strategy is a very far stretch, and if thats the best arguement that can be used, then pete would be in the hall right now. using that logic, then why isnt it ok to bet on the 7th game of the world series, when there is no game following?

That is a moot point since Rose never got the Reds to such a game. The fact is that it is still against the rules to place such a bet.

Do you not agree that all managers keep the next game in mind when managing the current one except for a game when they can eliminated?
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Old 05-15-02, 03:17 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Dog
Do you not agree that all managers keep the next game in mind when managing the current one except for a game when they can eliminated?
sure I do.. but on any given day, the most important thing is winning that particular game
to argue that his tactics to go about winning are out of the ordinary is silly, because everyone manages different ways.
is there evidence to say that pete ever comprised the future of his program by making moves that would hurt the team in the long run, to win a game? I highly doubt it.
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Old 05-15-02, 03:26 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff


is there evidence to say that pete ever comprised the future of his program by making moves that would hurt the team in the long run, to win a game? I highly doubt it.

Is there evidence? Of course not. Nobody has telepathic abilities and unless you could read his mind, you would not accept any kind of 'evidence' anyway. Knowing Pete and human nature, I am 99.9% sure that at least once, Pete changed his managerial strategy on the basis of a wager alone.
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1st Round Final Scores: Bucknell 64 Kansas 63 | Bucknell 59 Arkansas 55
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Old 05-15-02, 04:13 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally posted by namja
What is the integrity of baseball? Is there any integrity left?

Players used to play baseball because they loved the game. They now play baseball for money, and for money alone.
Was Edd Roush the only annual spring holdout of his time? Koufax and Drysdale found acting jobs to pressure management to sign them to better contracts.

I think the reserve clause had more to do with contracts and salaries than the love of the game.


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The ballparks are now plastered with ads, the players have agents/lawyers who battle with the owners for more money, the teams that make the playoffs are generally those with the highest payroll, etc. Money drives all professional sports.
In Baseball - A Film by Ken Burns there is old footage with ads covering the outfields. Baseball Almanac describes a 60' Ballantine Beer sign in the outfield of Shibe Park. I agree, to a certain extent, about the agents and lawyers having a negative impact on the game. I wonder, however, how the payroll for past World Series winners related to the rest of the league at the time.

Quote:
When owners pay exorbitant amounts of money to their players so that they can win a Championship and bring in more revenues/income, that is no different that gambling. Investing is just a glorified term for gambling. Especially in sports, both involve a lot of educated guesses.
I would argue that this isn't a recent phenomenon either. Do you remember Connie Mack's $100,000 dollar infield? He put together several pennant winners, but sold his key players away due to financial considerations.

Last edited by feenst; 05-15-02 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 05-15-02, 04:33 PM   #137
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His actions as a player should get him into the hall. His alleged actions after he played shouldn't (and don't in my mind) overshadow the work that he performed on the field. Ergo, he should be in the HoF.

Trivia for you -- he is recognized in the hall as a member of the All-Century Team, he just doesn't have a plaque in the gallery.
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Old 08-02-02, 09:28 PM   #138
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Just to raise the issue again - because I read about this in recent papers:

Pete belongs in the Hall for his baseball play.

End of discussion. (hah - as if that will work... )

He's a jerk, but he played baseball very, very well.
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Old 08-02-02, 10:09 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seeker
Just to raise the issue again - because I read about this in recent papers:

Pete belongs in the Hall for his baseball play.

End of discussion. (hah - as if that will work... )

He's a jerk, but he played baseball very, very well.
and I will still agree
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Old 08-02-02, 10:10 PM   #140
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Where's 3DD with the dissenting opinion?

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Old 08-03-02, 01:21 AM   #141
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There was an interesting point in SI, that says Pete Rose actually benefits from not being in the Hall, since everyone always talks about it. If he was inducted. He'd get lost in the wave of older players that everyone forgets like George Kell and Rod Carew.
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Old 08-06-02, 12:51 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seeker
Where's 3DD with the dissenting opinion?

Two words: moving van.
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Old 08-06-02, 12:56 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seeker
Where's 3DD with the dissenting opinion?

Two words: moving van.
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Old 08-06-02, 01:14 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally posted by Three Day Delay


Two words: moving van.
2 more words:

SMALL BALL!
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Old 08-06-02, 01:16 PM   #145
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Two more words (with regard to this thread):

Hell Yes!
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Old 08-06-02, 01:49 PM   #146
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If I were Pete Rose I wouldn't even want to be in the Hall of Fame. If, after all this time, they finally said, "Yeah, okay. You're in." I'd tell them to kiss my ass. Who needs their stupid label? He's already got his immortality, and his reputation will be the same either way. By now I'd think that Pete has accepted that he'll get in to Hall of Fame the same day he beats Kane at Wrestlemania. I see no reason for him to care unless of course Darryl Strawberry gets in.
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Old 08-07-02, 01:04 PM   #147
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No, his actions are inexcusable ~ I believe he bet on his own team when he was a manager.
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Old 08-07-02, 01:07 PM   #148
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wooohooo.. yea.. lets start this arguement back up

hell yea, if anyone in baseball has ever deserved to be in the hall of fame.. pete rose does!

but if you want to have the arguement.. you must go back and reread the past 6 pages.. because I refuse to keep repeating the same points and shooting down the same lame arguements
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Old 01-22-03, 02:13 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff
yea, Ive seen the evidence, and it makes a pretty good case
but in a case like this, until their is an admission of guilt, it is still alleged
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Old 01-22-03, 02:39 PM   #150
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in a hurry right now.. so cant read the article yet

does rose ever admit to betting against his team?
because thats the only crime I see that would warrant a lifetime ban IMO.
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