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View Poll Results: Should Pete Rose Be In The Hall Of Fame?
Yes, His stats are amazing 106 59.89%
Yes, if he admits and/or apologizes 14 7.91%
No, his actions are inexcusable 52 29.38%
only if he takes twikoff with him 5 2.82%
Voters: 177. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-15-02, 08:48 AM   #101
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I notice no one has talked about what I talked about earlier: what does it take to get into the HoF? It takes stats, pure and simple. They do not vote in by judge of character like many other major sports do, they vote in solely by stats.

Pete Rose is #1 in the biggest stat there is for the HoF. It is pretty much a given that someone in modern times that bats over 3,000 hits will be guaranteed to be in the HoF. Pete has over 4,200 hits, he is over 1,200 hits above the "magic line". He deserves to be in the Hall of Fame whether he did anything or not. He did these things AFTER his playing days...he should be voted in via what he did WHILE playing.

Now, can someone answer my question of the percentage of the BWA that would vote for Pete if he was eligible? We all know they have probably had at least one article in their past talking about their stance on Pete. I'm willing to bet he will be one of, if not the highest, voted person ever for the HoF in modern times.

I said this is like an abortion debate...you have your hard pro-Petes and your hard anti-Petes
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Old 05-15-02, 09:57 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by monkeyboy

by the looks of that betting sheet above, he was betting on the reds to win.

And that is still wrong because it effects the integrity of the baseball season as a whole. He is treating some games more importantly than others solely because he has a lot of money riding on it.
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Old 05-15-02, 10:15 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Dog



And that is still wrong because it effects the integrity of the baseball season as a whole. He is treating some games more importantly than others solely because he has a lot of money riding on it.
would it be better if he bet that the reds would win the pennant???
would it be better if he bet that the reds woudl win the 7th game of the world series??

are those ok, but betting on game 47 of the season isnt?
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Old 05-15-02, 10:18 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff


would it be better if he bet that the reds would win the pennant???
would it be better if he bet that the reds woudl win the 7th game of the world series??

are those ok, but betting on game 47 of the season isnt?
I think you missed the word "still" in his post.
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Old 05-15-02, 10:22 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by Three Day Delay


I think you missed the word "still" in his post.
yep.. but that is the single arguement he is using to say that is it wrong to bet in favor of your team

while other people feel that it is nothing more then motivation, and isnt motivation a good thing
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Old 05-15-02, 10:41 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff

while other people feel that it is nothing more then motivation, and isnt motivation a good thing

And what if by monetary motivation, he leaves an injured player in the game (which can do long term damage to the player and team) solely because such a player at 75% gives him a better chance of winning that one game than a bench-warmer at 100%.
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Old 05-15-02, 10:47 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Dog



And what if by monetary motivation, he leaves an injured player in the game (which can do long term damage to the player and team) solely because such a player at 75% gives him a better chance of winning that one game than a bench-warmer at 100%.
and what if monkeys flew out of my butt
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Old 05-15-02, 10:51 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff


and what if monkeys flew out of my butt

That shouldn't disqualify you from making the Hall.
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1st Round Final Scores: Bucknell 64 Kansas 63 | Bucknell 59 Arkansas 55
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Old 05-15-02, 10:55 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff


and what if monkeys flew out of my butt
Then you would talk kinda funny
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Old 05-15-02, 11:45 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff


exactly..

show me anyone that has ever had such a love for the game.. someone that gave 100% every minute he was out on the field
whether in the field.. in the batters box.. running the bases.. and crashing into the catcher at home..
Ive never seen anyone put that much intensity into the game
if his crime is that he hurt the integrity of baseball, then people should keep in mind that in his playing days, he defined what a baseball player should be
Hey, you think Kirk Gibson should be in the Hall Of Fame too?!?! That makes two of us
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Old 05-15-02, 12:37 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Dog
And what if by monetary motivation, he leaves an injured player in the game (which can do long term damage to the player and team) solely because such a player at 75% gives him a better chance of winning that one game than a bench-warmer at 100%.
Or more realistically... say his starter gets hit hard early and he empties his bullpen trying to find someone who can keep them in the game. As a manager it is often important to take a loss in certain game (even if it means getting blown out) to keep your bullpen arms fresh for the next few.

The thing is, betting on your own team, you are most likely going to try harder to win that certain game... even if it means you may lose the next two. Maybe Rose managed the games he bet on just as he would any other... but I think it's doubtful.

No way should he be in the Hall.

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Old 05-15-02, 12:46 PM   #112
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ok.. for anyone that makes the arguement that its wrong, because it effects the strategy for the next game and could hurt the team..

Im still waiting for an answer to these questions..

does that mean its ok to bet that his team will win the pennant race?
does that mean its ok to bet on the final game of the season, if they arent going to the playoffs?
does taht mean its ok to bet on his team to win game 7 of the world series?
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Old 05-15-02, 01:38 PM   #113
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God, I hate to get in on this argument, but here's the deal.

Who defines what tarnishes the integrity of baseball? Is it hitting an ump? Betting on games? Killing people while wearing a hat for your team? Missing games because of steroid abuse? I don't believe a single person/entity should decide that. If someone's transgressions are bad enough to not warrant being accepted into the Hall of Fame, then the voters shouldn't vote him in. It's that simple. But to deny someone being on the ballot because of one person/entity's arbitrary interpretation of rules does not sit well with me.

The "integrity of baseball" is an illusion as large as the "integrity of the Presidency," and depending on your perspective, many Hall of Famers have done things worse than Rose did. Every person in the Hall of Fame is there because of the opinion of the voters. No one is there on stats alone, and as everyone knows there are people not in the Hall with better stats in the same era as someone who is in the Hall because of personality issues or differences in media exposure. Put him on the ballot, and see what happens. If he doesn't belong in the Hall, then they won't vote him in. What good are the voters if you don't allow them to make those decisions?

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Old 05-15-02, 01:49 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff

does that mean its ok to bet that his team will win the pennant race?
does that mean its ok to bet on the final game of the season, if they arent going to the playoffs?
does taht mean its ok to bet on his team to win game 7 of the world series?

No to all the above BECAUSE IT IS AGAINST THE RULES. I say again, if Pete loves the game so much, why does he have to put a monetary incentive on it?
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Old 05-15-02, 01:51 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mordred
Or more realistically... say his starter gets hit hard early and he empties his bullpen trying to find someone who can keep them in the game. As a manager it is often important to take a loss in certain game (even if it means getting blown out) to keep your bullpen arms fresh for the next few.

The thing is, betting on your own team, you are most likely going to try harder to win that certain game... even if it means you may lose the next two. Maybe Rose managed the games he bet on just as he would any other... but I think it's doubtful.

Another of the multitude of reasons why betting to win can be dangerous to the team over the long haul.
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1st Round Final Scores: Bucknell 64 Kansas 63 | Bucknell 59 Arkansas 55
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Old 05-15-02, 02:31 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Dog

I say again, if Pete loves the game so much, why does he have to put a monetary incentive on it?
because he loves to gamble too... duh!
you know.. there are some that will tell you that gambling is a disease, and its not politically correct to discrimate against a diseased person.. but I wouldnt use that arguement.

yes gambling is against the rules.. but there are different degrees.. and they deserve different punishment.. the majority feel that gambling on your own team to win, is not that big of a deal, and does not warrant him being left off the ballot. And the zero tolerance rule is a joke, because there is no way you can convince me that this doesnt happen pretty often.

the fans wants him in, the writers want him in, the players want him in, the coaches want him in, the people in charge of the hall of fame want him in... only the commissioner wants to keep him out..
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Old 05-15-02, 02:33 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff

the fans wants him in

Speak for yourself.
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1st Round Final Scores: Bucknell 64 Kansas 63 | Bucknell 59 Arkansas 55
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Old 05-15-02, 02:34 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Dog

Speak for yourself.
Im speaking for the majority of all polls I have ever seen done on this subject.. even in here, over 77% says yes
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Old 05-15-02, 02:36 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff


Im speaking for the majority of all polls I have ever seen done on this subject.. even in here, over 77% says yes

That's fine. I'm not a fan of polls and thank goodness a poll is not the determining factor in this or anything of more importance.
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1st Round Final Scores: Bucknell 64 Kansas 63 | Bucknell 59 Arkansas 55
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Old 05-15-02, 02:37 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Dog

That's fine. I'm not a fan of polls and thank goodness a poll is not the determining factor in this or anything of more importance.
yea. communism is so superior to democracy
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Old 05-15-02, 02:40 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Dog



Speak for yourself.
I believe the majority wants him in.
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Old 05-15-02, 02:42 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff


yea. communism is so superior to democracy


Well in this case, I'd say that most baseball fans don't even know about the no-gambling rule or haven't considered what the consequences of gambling for the team you manage could be.

By the way, in this poll, 74% (at this point) say yes - no induction acc'd to DVD Talk (75% is required).
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1st Round Final Scores: Bucknell 64 Kansas 63 | Bucknell 59 Arkansas 55
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Old 05-15-02, 02:46 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Dog

Well in this case, I'd say that most baseball fans don't even know about the no-gambling rule or haven't considered what the consequences of gambling for the team you manage could be.

By the way, in this poll, 74% (at this point) say yes - no induction acc'd to DVD Talk (75% is required).
i think its safe to say that most people know that you arent allowed to gamble in the sport.. but the majority think its a joke that you would get the ultimate punishment for it. unless he bet against his own team, there is no way that the majority will ever side against him. to assume that the majority are just ignorant of the facts is a bit egotistical, dont you think?
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Old 05-15-02, 02:48 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff

to assume that the majority are just ignorant of the facts is a bit egotistical, dont you think?

Not if I think it is entirely correct. Not when people are clamoring for proof that he bet on the Reds/baseball games and when it is presented (in visual form no less), they still say that it is not proof (only an allegation).
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1st Round Final Scores: Bucknell 64 Kansas 63 | Bucknell 59 Arkansas 55
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Old 05-15-02, 02:50 PM   #125
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Ok, I'll admit I only made it thru 2 pages of this thread, so maybe someone emphasized this on p 3-5, but...

Pete Rose accepted the ban. What the ban meant was known to everyone involved (if Pete didn't know that, he and his lawyers are idiots, so let's assume he knew). Let me repeat that: Pete accepted a permanent ban from the game of baseball, which he knew included the HOF.

Now, I imagine he accepted such a ban to prevent all the slimy details from emerging. Plus, he probably thought he would reapply later, after people had "forgotten" about it, and would be reinstated. Those are fair enough things to think. But how can people whine when the man accepted a permanent ban. We haven't forgotten, and some of us don't think he should be in the HOF.

If he deserved the ban in the first place (a fairly unchallenged assumption since he accepted it), what has he done since to show that the ban should be lifted?
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