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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 08-04-17, 01:22 PM   #101
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
A trans man is a man.
Well, I think the problem is that this is not a universal truth. There is no consensus by everyone what makes a "real man", so while the PC community will say that a trans man is a man, there are a ton of people out there who will disagree. And I'm not sure how you can convince them otherwise.
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Old 08-04-17, 01:52 PM   #102
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
because trans women are just as real as women who were born with female genitalia.
Would their DNA show them as a different sex?
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Old 08-04-17, 02:06 PM   #103
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by Artman View Post
Would their DNA show them as a different sex?
DNA and human development is a lot more complicated than you're suggesting. Two X chromosomes doesn't guarantee that the person with those chromosomes will be female, and same for XY chromosomes with males.

Have a look here for some of the many ways in which sex isn't as simple as XX=female and XY=male: http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html
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Old 08-04-17, 03:28 PM   #104
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Isn't that an oxymoron?
No. Cis is not related to being gay or straight, only to birth sex vs gender identity.
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Old 08-04-17, 03:49 PM   #105
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
the PC community
What does this have to do with Intel vs. AMD?

(this was going to be a more serious reply about how "PC" is a term that has lost all meaning* beyond "not being an asshole to minorities" but I'm on my phone and can't expand on that right now.)

*whatever meaning it was meant to have in the first place...
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Old 08-04-17, 03:57 PM   #106
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
To be clear, I was just talking about the comments of OTHERS in the comment sections of those stories. I lean towards it NOT being Rape.
And I agree with you.
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Old 08-04-17, 03:58 PM   #107
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

I just think that if you go down the route of "a trans man IS a man, and if you don't agree, you are a bigot" then you are never going to convince anyone with that.

A better tact would be "TREAT a trans man as a man, and keep your actual opinion to yourself". It's much easier to get people to change their behavior, than their beliefs.
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Old 08-04-17, 04:11 PM   #108
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
I just think that if you go down the route of "a trans man IS a man, and if you don't agree, you are a bigot" then you are never going to convince anyone with that.
So... You want people to be more... shall I say... politically correct... towards people they perceive as bigots so as not to hurt their feelings?

Quote:
A better tact would be "TREAT a trans man as a man, and keep your actual opinion to yourself". It's much easier to get people to change their behavior, than their beliefs.
Yeah, I mostly agree. I think if someone is being extremely derogatory then they should kind of be talked-down to, since they're typically unwilling to give that same courtesy to trans people or whoever they're railing against.

Anyway... I just REALLY wanted to share this video. There's so much panic about deception... and I feel like Kat does a great job tearing that misconception down:

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Last edited by Dan; 08-04-17 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 08-04-17, 04:35 PM   #109
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
I just think that if you go down the route of "a trans man IS a man, and if you don't agree, you are a bigot" then you are never going to convince anyone with that.

A better tact would be "TREAT a trans man as a man, and keep your actual opinion to yourself". It's much easier to get people to change their behavior, than their beliefs.
Well said and exactly what I met. Regardless of personal belief, every should treat everyone else with respect.
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Old 08-04-17, 05:01 PM   #110
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
I just think that if you go down the route of "a trans man IS a man, and if you don't agree, you are a bigot" then you are never going to convince anyone with that.

A better tact would be "TREAT a trans man as a man, and keep your actual opinion to yourself". It's much easier to get people to change their behavior, than their beliefs.
Agreed! There will always be differences (which is a good thing, right?), but what matters most is how we treat each other.
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Old 08-04-17, 06:16 PM   #111
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
What false thing is being advertised?

If XY tries to make themself look like XX for the purpose of getting a sexual partner, without making it clear what is really going on, then that is false advertising.
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Old 08-04-17, 06:24 PM   #112
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

grundle, please review the following from the NatGeo article already posted in this thread:
Quote:
Genetic variations can occur that are unrelated to the SRY gene, such as complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS), in which an XY embryo’s cells respond minimally, if at all, to the signals of male hormones. Even though the proto-gonads become testes and the fetus produces androgens, male genitals don’t develop. The baby looks female, with a clitoris and vagina, and in most cases will grow up feeling herself to be a girl.

Which is this baby, then? Is she the girl she believes herself to be? Or, because of her XY chromosomes—not to mention the testes in her abdomen—is she “really” male?
Please answer these questions in bold to the best of your ability. Maybe then we can tackle your scenario of "XY tries to make themself look like XX" as if that even means anything at all. Thank you.
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Old 08-04-17, 06:50 PM   #113
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by grundle View Post
If XY tries to make themself look like XX for the purpose of getting a sexual partner, without making it clear what is really going on, then that is false advertising.
But a trans person isn't advertising themselves as another gender for the purpose of getting a sexual partner, they are being themselves.

You're treating being trans like it's some kind of trick to play on straight people.
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Old 08-04-17, 08:26 PM   #114
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
You're treating being trans like it's some kind of trick to play on straight people.
Well, in fairness aren't most trying to pass themselves off as the opposite gender? Adding and subtracting body parts, cross dressing, etc.
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Old 08-04-17, 08:43 PM   #115
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by Artman View Post
Well, in fairness aren't most trying to pass themselves off as the opposite gender? Adding and subtracting body parts, cross dressing, etc.
They ARE the other gender. That's the problem when people say things like "fake" or "trick" or "pass themselves off".
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Old 08-04-17, 08:53 PM   #116
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artman View Post
Well, in fairness aren't most trying to pass themselves off as the opposite gender? Adding and subtracting body parts, cross dressing, etc.
Assuming you genuinely want an answer and not JAQing, start here:
https://genderterror.com/2013/11/28/...isconceptions/
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Old 08-04-17, 09:10 PM   #117
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
I just think that if you go down the route of "a trans man IS a man, and if you don't agree, you are a bigot" then you are never going to convince anyone with that.

A better tact would be "TREAT a trans man as a man, and keep your actual opinion to yourself". It's much easier to get people to change their behavior, than their beliefs.
I agree.
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Old 08-04-17, 11:17 PM   #118
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

To those that think that non disclosure is ok, do you feel the same about this woman:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Dolezal?

She identifies herself as being African Ameircan even though gentically she is white. Is she really African American because her mind is telling her she is and she went through some cosmetic changes to make herself look African American.
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Old 08-04-17, 11:24 PM   #119
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

Does it matter what she thinks?
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Old 08-04-17, 11:34 PM   #120
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Does it matter what she thinks?
Does it matter what the trans person thinks who also did things to modify their appearance?
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Old 08-05-17, 12:01 AM   #121
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by movieguru View Post
Does it matter what the trans person thinks who also did things to modify their appearance?
I'm saying to you. Does it matter to you what she thinks?
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Old 08-05-17, 01:04 AM   #122
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by Draven View Post
They ARE the other gender. That's the problem when people say things like "fake" or "trick" or "pass themselves off".
That's just where we part ways on the issue.
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Last edited by Artman; 08-05-17 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 08-05-17, 01:14 AM   #123
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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I'm saying to you. Does it matter to you what she thinks?
It mattered to most of the African Americans who believed she was African American do to her intentionally changing her appearance and not disclosing that she was white just because in her mind she thought she was black.
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Old 08-05-17, 07:25 AM   #124
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

Transracialism != transgenderism.
Dolezal's situation does not represent a wide range or any sort of pattern in any society, where as transgender folks have been documented in various ways throughout time and many cultures.
When there's more than literally one (or two) people who feel that that they are a different race, we can take the comparison seriously. For now, bringing it into the conversation is just an obvious attempt to de-legitimize the reality of transgender lives.

Try again.
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Old 08-05-17, 07:50 AM   #125
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Transracialism != transgenderism.
Dolezal's situation does not represent a wide range or any sort of pattern in any society, where as transgender folks have been documented in various ways throughout time and many cultures.
When there's more than literally one (or two) people who feel that that they are a different race, we can take the comparison seriously. For now, bringing it into the conversation is just an obvious attempt to de-legitimize the reality of transgender lives.

Try again.
Yea, I posted in the bathroom thread that a public school in Philidelphia settled a lawsuit against a trans girl who not being allowed to use the women's bathroom. The school not only is allowing, they are changing their policy and putting up some cash.

The comment section of the article was truely disturbing. It was similar to this; "well if a student thinks they are a teacher...." And "what if she thinks she is a tiger..." Very disturbing.
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